So... What do people actually want out of the game?

[Gigabear]

Personally, my only complaint about the announcement is that Drakthyr are limited to one class and Evoker is limited to one race. Bad move, IMO.

We've seen countless Dragonkin in the game that encompasses existing classes. Likewise, it shouldn't be too difficult to make a class that is limited to a FEW races that gives you wings / whatever to use spells or abilities.

What if the Evoker class provided you the dragon form for non Drac'thyr? Other races could go through a ritual to become bonded to the magic of the five flights.

[HansOlo]

Personally, my only complaint about the announcement is that Drakthyr are limited to one class and Evoker is limited to one race. Bad move, IMO.

We've seen countless Dragonkin in the game that encompasses existing classes. Likewise, it shouldn't be too difficult to make a class that is limited to a FEW races that gives you wings / whatever to use spells or abilities.


Aside from that, I'm really happy about the announcement and a lot of the changes are things I've only dreamed they'd do. If they continue in this direction, this expansion will be great.

You obviously could guess the problem.

They need to invent a gnome flying and spewing fire from his mouth. It doesn't look nice and it's hard to pull off the animations. That's why they had to create a new race.

But understand that they have to consider resources put in(is it worth the dev time to make it possible with a gnome evoker?).
Also the community is ready with the pitchfork. They picked the safest and the easiest way - but the new model needs rework.

[Woggmer]

I would like to start this post by making it clear that under no circumstance am I saying "EVERYONE is saying X" - But that it simply feels like "a MAJORITY is saying X" <- Based of comments, threads, posts, chats, talks, messages and replies left behind / posted here on MMO-C, on the official Forums, Facebook Groups, Reddit, Discord servers and sometimes even in-game on the rare occasion at which I have spoke to people.

What does people actually want out of this game? After the announcement of Dragonflight: I have seen near nothing but complaints but the complaints is all geared toward aspects that Dragonflight seems to be "Doing right"

"I am sick of this otherworldly BS that is Shadowlands, can we just have a grounded expansion on Azeroth next" - We get that now, but suddenly it's wrong because it's on The Dragon Isles? I am no lore expert but what places besides Tel'Abim and Dragon Isles is there even left on Azeroth to see? I can't imagine people being any more happy if Blizzard just pulled a new zone / continent out of thin air... So why is it "so bad" when we finally get what people have been asking for? An expansion that does not send us to another plane of existence.

"I am so sick of borrowed power! Can it just go die!" - It's been confirmed that there will be no Borrowed power systems in Dragonflight but the its suddenly bad that there is no massive system announced like we got for Artifacts, Azerite and the Covenants? Anything that isn't "Borrowed Power" is clearly not going to be a big thing and yeah while I get that it's a bit "odd" that we do not know what the central "stick" of Dragonflight will be yet, there is just such an overwhelming about of moaning about this, making it seem like people would rather have Borrowed Power than an expansion without a massive carrot.

"Why can't we just get a new race / class already" - We got both. And yes, yes - I do agree that the restriction is kind of stupid (I do hope that come 11.0 - The Dracthyr have learned some of our class skills and they have learned us the arts of being an Evoker) But the sheer amount of complaints now makes it seem like people would suddenly rather have NOTHING instead of what we did get. How is that... Why is that? Isn't his better than nothing? I get that this isn't "Ogre Tinker" which seems like it's a lot of people's wet dream - But surely this is better than nothing?

"I swear to god, if they do Pathfinder one more time I will snap." - They ain't doing that, and now that is wrong too? I get that the Dragon Riding system is new and scary, but at the end of the day you will get to fly from A to B without the same amount of fuzz that comes with the Pathfinder system. And yeah I have seen all the "THEY ARE JUST RIPPING OFF GW2" comments but honestly... Isn't that BETTER than the current "Swimming in the air" that is the current flight system? From the looks alone I hope Dragon Riding is perfected to the point where it becomes the norm for all flying mounts come 11.0

There are other complaints too like: "Why only 4 zones" which seems to ignore that they mentioned how these zones will be massive compared to older ones. People moaning over the new profession stuff after having cried for years for Blizzard to make professions more relevant, which they now are trying to do. "Why can't we just get player housing, FFXIV does it so why can't WoW" which completely ignores how the games is catering to completely different audiences, if you want player housing so bad, why are you not playing FF instead? "Why is the Sword still in Silithus?" I mean, we DID remove the corruption from it, it's not currently KILLING the planet anymore... And what would we do? Ask Khagdar to try and disenchant it? I doubt any of us have a titan on speed-dial that can come and pull it out. What I have seen the least amount of complaints about is the Talent system but even that there has been people whining over.

I fully understand that WoW is a far cry from what it once was, I get that. But why is it that when Blizzard does X and X is done in the way the community seemingly have been asking for it to be for years: They still get crap... What do you people actually wan to be happy? I am just so confused...
Personally, if Dragonflight can get the same patch cycle that Legion did - I can see myself enjoying it just fine. Will it be phenomenal? Most likely not, I doubt we will get another "solid" expansion until whatever 12.0 ends up being, but does Dragonflight look like a step in the right direction? I'd say so.

This isn't anything new, I remember people hating MoP even though it soon became one of the best expansions. It's always "EW WTF IS THIS KUNG FU PANDA SHIT?! IN MY WoW? Boy Blizz is really trying to sell their game to the 10 year olds. I'm gonna go play some other MMO that caters to an adult crowd, like WildStar" and that'd be the biggest (but not the only reason) to hate MoP. There was also the way dailies were handled at the start and there was also people being like "Ughh, why are we so focused on Garrosh? Why can't we just kill him already? What? Vol'jin is Warchief? I wanted Sylvanas to be Warchief!" (And the Monkey Paw's Finger curled from that wish)

Even Wrath was going through a bunch of hate, "UGHH WHY ARE DKS SO OP?! Seriously there's like 5 lvl 58 DK in my BG and they keep decimating my team! BLIZZ NERF THEM!" and also "Creating Heroic mode was the worst mistake Blizz ever made, they should've gave us a Hard Mode like in Ulduar, but now we have to deal with these weird lockouts and the bosses can just be difficult at the flip of a switch. How lame." Yet when they've been balanced or refined to not be so OP, people just go "There goes Blizz being the fun police. If they see people having fun then they'll ruin it for everyone."

People are gonna whine and complain about something, but even listening to those complaints can be harmful to the game. The very first controversy I ever heard about was back in Cata, was it because of the world revamp? Nope, it was actually the difficulty of Heroic Dungeons at the time. A handful of players at the time made complaints about how Cata Dungeons were too hard (Cata heroics were set to be as difficult as the TBC Heroic Dungeons, but a bunch of new players who started in Wrath were more accustomed to Wrath's easier Heroic Dungeons) and Blizz ended up catering to those people by making the Cata heroics easier, this caused a huge backlash from the veteran players who've played since TBC and even made people quit the game because of that.

Can't satisfy everyone, best they can do is find a compromise that people can agree on and enjoy and one that has the fewest complaints.

[Fabled]

Do you play M+ and dislike it? or just annoyed that so much gear comes from it and its essentially become the best gearing path (in most situations, not all)? I ask because i dont like pet battles, so i dont play them, but, they dont impact the game outside of pet battles, while M+ certainly does.

I play M+ and have disliked it after having 3, soon to be 4 expansions of it boiling down to be the best path of gearing. The alternative being raid farming or going back to gear vendors via currency drops, so at this point it's probably more of a me issue, but I digress.

[Caprias]

I agree with this. It was actually kind of a thing in Legion, but based heavily on RNG through titanforging. If you played long enough though you could get decently geared without stepping into an instance.

This would have to take ages as to not fuck over heroic raiders though, which then people will complain about because you could just grind it out in a week doing m+ 15 keys anyways, the heroic raid at least had unique trinkets and slightly elevated ilvl on the last 2 bosses.

If you really want to split hairs about it the reward system is screwed since M+ anyways, level 15 keys are way easier and more accessible than middle-late heroic bosses, they're also decently farmable without a lockout.

- - - Updated - - -

I play M+ and have disliked it after having 3, soon to be 4 expansions of it boiling down to be the best path of gearing. The alternative being raid farming or going back to gear vendors via currency drops, so at this point it's probably more of a me issue, but I digress.

Yeah this pretty much, I like M+ but the reward structure ever since it's release has just been weird.

[Gigabear]

This would have to take ages as to not fuck over heroic raiders though, which then people will complain about because you could just grind it out in a week doing m+ 15 keys anyways, the heroic raid at least had unique trinkets and slightly elevated ilvl on the last 2 bosses.

If you really want to split hairs about it the reward system is screwed since M+ anyways, level 15 keys are way easier and more accessible than middle-late heroic bosses, they're also decently farmable without a lockout.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah this pretty much, I like M+ but the reward structure ever since it's release has just been weird.

I'm not too particular on how long it takes so long as it is at least possible. Although really I only need it to solo old content a bit sooner so it's not that big of a deal for me.

[Caprias]

I'm not too particular on how long it takes so long as it is at least possible. Although really I only need it to solo old content a bit sooner so it's not that big of a deal for me.

I wouldn't mind if people could grind out mythic best in slot with open world activities without ever touching group activities, it does have to reflect logical effort and investment steps though as to not destroy/twist incentives, which since your "average" CE guild already takes several months to deck players out would have to be the equivalent of at least half a year or more lol.

Not sure how many casual players would ever bother with that.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mostly don't want to feel like once I do the weekly bonk up the bar, a few m+, and the raid with the boys that spending more time in the game is in essence a waste because its just more efficient to log out and do the weekly stuff again next week.

[boyzma]

I want to have player housing so I can become a real estate mogul. I will buy and sell other players homes ( at of course reasonable prices ....mmm hmmmm) I will obtain giant parcels of land and build "Low gold housing" and then become a slum lord.

[Caprias]

I mostly don't want to feel like once I do the weekly bonk up the bar, a few m+, and the raid with the boys that spending more time in the game is in essence a waste because its just more efficient to log out and do the weekly stuff again next week.

If the only thing you feel like is worthy of your time is vertical progression then no thanks make an alt before we get the Legion/Bfa occupational therapy route again.

[khazmodan]

Heroic quality set of gear to work towards long term, buyable with a currency with a weekly cap obtainable from various sources like dungeons, daily quests, battlegrounds etc.

YES, please, it was so much more enjoyable to have either rng OR vendors to get an upgrade each week and feel like you could gear up to a respectable level (I don't expect mythic level ffs). This made gearing up alts fun and gave me something to do with other casual players I socialize with.

- - - Updated - - -

I want to have player housing so I can become a real estate mogul. I will buy and sell other players homes ( at of course reasonable prices ....mmm hmmmm) I will obtain giant parcels of land and build "Low gold housing" and then become a slum lord.

You should change your character name to Bobbykotick...

[arkanon]

The currency should be farmable from a lot of different sources but with a weekly cap, the gear should be on a vendor.

You are DESPERATELY trying to avoid saying what you REALLY want.....why? You already can obtain heroic and even higher quality gear from bgs and dungeons - you know it, i know it, we all know it - why try so hard to avoid saying what you actually want? Just say it:

You want to be able to endlessly spam mindless content, with next to no skill requirement, where you dont have to communicate with anyone at all and just hit a button and go, but you want heroic raid quality gear from doing it. THATS what you want. We both know it too - when you said you wanted heroic raid quality loot from dungeons and bgs, you forgot that you can already get gear at heroic raid and even mythic raid from dungeons and bgs - BUT, it requires actual effort.

[Diaphin]

Casual progression over the full course of an expansion without high-level M+ or raiding. It could be gear especially suited to playing in the world or a feature like Torghast but I would like to know that any time I log on for an hour or so I will come out the other side just a little better than when I went in. Note that I didn't necessarily demand mythic gear but it wouldn't hurt anyone that with enough time and play you could get very close to it in terms of ilevel/power.

To be honest, I think solo gear should be capped to normal raid item levels, like it is right now with Zereth Mortis which I consider an overall very decent system. Right now, you can get a full set of normal raid item level gear and you can even upgrade it to the full tier-set, even the offset pieces to get a full normal raid gear transmog. And you can even get heroic itemlevel gear over time through events. I think anything higher than that wouldn't really be feasible to introduce. It would be just an additional chore for raiders who would feel forced to do this kind of content for the additional gear, especially if it scales close to mythic itemlevel gear and then there would be the question of how you get it. If its basically the same as you get open world gear right now, which requires only time but little personal skill requirements, it would beat the purpose of gear on such itemlevels being a reward for playing on modi which require organisation and a high level of personal knowledge and skill of your class and the game. If it would be game mode similarily challenging to heroic or mythic raids, it would be basically reserved for people who already play these raids or high m+ keys. Remember the mage tower which was this single player challenge mode for solo players, most people who beat it early where raiders and m+ players, casually usually started to get the artifact skin with 7.3, once they started to comfortably outgear the content.

Another thing is to make professions much deeper and relevant (especially to the character with the profession). Make the recipes complicated and take weeks to build a couple of excellent pieces. Make me go out into the world to collect materials. I just want something useful to do that may add to the progression I wrote about in the first paragraph.

They are already expanding the profession system in dragonflight, but I think what you demand would actually just drive away people further from playing professions, as it would lock the best results and therefore gold making opportunities behind weeks long grinding. They already had to eleminate the grind from professions by making them all self-contained to each expansion to make them accessible, now enforcing weeks long grinds would just make them unaccessible again.

The last thing would be to set up content that can be run with friends, especially if you have less than five of them in game at the moment. I will play solo if necessary but I prefer to play with friends. I no longer want anything to do with strangers whom I would likely never see again. That's not how social play works. In fact, it's the opposite of social.

That's my list.

Blizzard tried this once, Scenarios just ended up being a widely unpopular system so they got dropped.

[loras]

I would like to start this post by making it clear that under no circumstance am I saying "EVERYONE is saying X" - But that it simply feels like "a MAJORITY is saying X" <- Based of comments, threads, posts, chats, talks, messages and replies left behind / posted here on MMO-C, on the official Forums, Facebook Groups, Reddit, Discord servers and sometimes even in-game on the rare occasion at which I have spoke to people.

What does people actually want out of this game? After the announcement of Dragonflight: I have seen near nothing but complaints but the complaints is all geared toward aspects that Dragonflight seems to be "Doing right"

"I am sick of this otherworldly BS that is Shadowlands, can we just have a grounded expansion on Azeroth next" - We get that now, but suddenly it's wrong because it's on The Dragon Isles? I am no lore expert but what places besides Tel'Abim and Dragon Isles is there even left on Azeroth to see? I can't imagine people being any more happy if Blizzard just pulled a new zone / continent out of thin air... So why is it "so bad" when we finally get what people have been asking for? An expansion that does not send us to another plane of existence.

"I am so sick of borrowed power! Can it just go die!" - It's been confirmed that there will be no Borrowed power systems in Dragonflight but the its suddenly bad that there is no massive system announced like we got for Artifacts, Azerite and the Covenants? Anything that isn't "Borrowed Power" is clearly not going to be a big thing and yeah while I get that it's a bit "odd" that we do not know what the central "stick" of Dragonflight will be yet, there is just such an overwhelming about of moaning about this, making it seem like people would rather have Borrowed Power than an expansion without a massive carrot.

"Why can't we just get a new race / class already" - We got both. And yes, yes - I do agree that the restriction is kind of stupid (I do hope that come 11.0 - The Dracthyr have learned some of our class skills and they have learned us the arts of being an Evoker) But the sheer amount of complaints now makes it seem like people would suddenly rather have NOTHING instead of what we did get. How is that... Why is that? Isn't his better than nothing? I get that this isn't "Ogre Tinker" which seems like it's a lot of people's wet dream - But surely this is better than nothing?

"I swear to god, if they do Pathfinder one more time I will snap." - They ain't doing that, and now that is wrong too? I get that the Dragon Riding system is new and scary, but at the end of the day you will get to fly from A to B without the same amount of fuzz that comes with the Pathfinder system. And yeah I have seen all the "THEY ARE JUST RIPPING OFF GW2" comments but honestly... Isn't that BETTER than the current "Swimming in the air" that is the current flight system? From the looks alone I hope Dragon Riding is perfected to the point where it becomes the norm for all flying mounts come 11.0

There are other complaints too like: "Why only 4 zones" which seems to ignore that they mentioned how these zones will be massive compared to older ones. People moaning over the new profession stuff after having cried for years for Blizzard to make professions more relevant, which they now are trying to do. "Why can't we just get player housing, FFXIV does it so why can't WoW" which completely ignores how the games is catering to completely different audiences, if you want player housing so bad, why are you not playing FF instead? "Why is the Sword still in Silithus?" I mean, we DID remove the corruption from it, it's not currently KILLING the planet anymore... And what would we do? Ask Khagdar to try and disenchant it? I doubt any of us have a titan on speed-dial that can come and pull it out. What I have seen the least amount of complaints about is the Talent system but even that there has been people whining over.

I fully understand that WoW is a far cry from what it once was, I get that. But why is it that when Blizzard does X and X is done in the way the community seemingly have been asking for it to be for years: They still get crap... What do you people actually wan to be happy? I am just so confused...
Personally, if Dragonflight can get the same patch cycle that Legion did - I can see myself enjoying it just fine. Will it be phenomenal? Most likely not, I doubt we will get another "solid" expansion until whatever 12.0 ends up being, but does Dragonflight look like a step in the right direction? I'd say so.

I think it ends up confusing for a lot of people because they amalgamate a few contradictory opinions as if they were coming from a single person.
This thought-error is anthropomorphisation; attributing human qualities to something that is not human.
And despite being made up of humans a crowd is not a human.

[cparle87]

Snip

In short the player base is so large and varied that anything Blizzard does will offend someone.

[deviantcultist]

I was only interested in WoW in terms of the tinfoil hat cosmic/otherwordly lore. Now we get an expansion where they give in to those who want things to revert back to high fantasy. It's not that I hate the game but it definitely loses all appeal to me if it's as simple as it looks.

Truly feels like MoP. Back when MoP was announced I was hoping for Legion and instead went through two filler expansions until Legion actually came out. Don't think I have the patience to play along this time around.

Every single theory was pointing to a Light vs Void scenario or a K'aresh expansion. Can't pretend to be impressed by a barebones generic expansion just because vocal people in forums and certain content creators asked for it. At the very least I hope these people who managed to get their fan service will finally stop acting as if Blizz never listens to them.

[DeltrusDisc]

I want something similar to my idea: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Faction-Goals

This is good stuff.

[PixelFox]

We don't know what we want, but we'll know it when we see it.

[sambubu]

I want it to be like Vanilla. An actual RPG and an actual MMO.

[dragonflight10]

There were NOT mandatory for character progression
Ion made it very clear that even that extremely limited system cost a raid tier, so a more elaborate system would likely cost even more
You say you dont want them tied to one location, then explain you wanted yours...........tied to one location, unique to one expansion.

sounds like you don't understand how high end raiding works lol