Why does wow's community come off as so entitled?

[Ersula]

With that out of the way... why is it that in wow players just come off as brats as the norm?

15 dollars a month

[Bloodyleech]

No, people did NOT want those runs, people just accepted them cause they didn't wanna lead themselves. People HATED it, but not enough to lead, which is understandable.

Wrong. If they didn't want them, they wouldn't have done them. Simply as that.
If something isn't wanted, it will not be done. It's all about the masses.
If the mass says "no" and groups with others, something like this wont work.
If those leaders wouldn't find people, they would lower the requirements/loottype, whatever. That's a fact.

Works the same as an economy - if it's to pricy, it will not be bought.

I have a question tho: you always know what "the people" hate, like, want or don't want. How tho? The masses tell a different story.

[Osmeric]

I think it's because they made so much money for so long they thought they could do no wrong, and if the game didn't do well it was because the players were mistaken about how they felt about it.

Oh wait, you meant the PLAYER community?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

• Casual customers are disatisfied with the game, provide feedback on how they would like to see it improved.

• Diehard fanboys in denial that their game is flawed and not everybody loves it, tries pushing out the others out claiming that they are elitist.

• Years past and eventually the small contingent of diehard fanboys are the only people still playing the game, are confused why normies don't like it.

Hmmm...

[uuuhname]

I think a lot of these people forget the game they are playing. it's an MMO where it's the norm that you sink hours upon hours into to get even a slight gear upgrade. that's been the cycle since even before WoW came out.

but on the other hand the try hards are trying to tell us that this game has become more casual... when really it's just QoL changes that makes getting into content faster than running around the wilderness collecting bear asses. and to this games detriment, it had devs and design leads that AGREE that even more time be spent grinding to get into raids and higher keys than any other content this game could offer.

so you have this weird juxtaposition where it's easier to access the game but if you want to engage in any content above heroic dungeons you HAVE to be in a guild or have a group of friends but all you had to do to get to max level was spam dungeons and never bother really interacting with anyone along the way.

I keep repeating myself over and over: but just join a guild? even a super casual one? having the green text pop up every now and then saying "hey we're doing X,Y or Z. anyone want to join?" is really all you need to get into higher content the quickest.

[shoc]

Because if you whine incessantly for at least 5 years odds are good Blizz will fold and give you what you want.

[HansOlo]

• Casual customers are disatisfied with the game, provide feedback on how they would like to see it improved.

• Diehard fanboys in denial that their game is flawed and not everybody loves it, tries pushing out the others out claiming that they are elitist.

• Years past and eventually the small contingent of diehard fanboys are the only people still playing the game, are confused why normies don't like it.

Hmmm...

Casual walks into a bar filled with hooligans.

Casual: Yo guys - I don't watch soccer, I don't care about soccer. In fact - I don't see the point, why 11 people would run after the ball.

Casual: Imagine a game, where everyone had a ball and had golden shoes on. There would be no goalkeeper and everybody could score. And everybody would win.

You kinda can expect some reaction from that.

[sneedlewoods]

Could be because they're paying money and Blizzard tends to overpromise, underdeliver and then extract more money out of them through shady means.

[MoanaLisa]

Now everything I am about to bring up can be seen in any mmo. This isn't about wow having unique problems just the frequency I see it compared to other games.

With that out of the way... why is it that in wow players just come off as brats as the norm?

You see people complaining constantly that they are not invited to high level content without having done any high level content. You see people turning their noses at starting gear claiming that it isn't near best in slot and only more powerful then the first few tiers of difficult content...


I just don't get why... in most communities these players are laughed out but here I wouldn't say they are catered to but they come off as the norm.

Maybe it's suggestions like "Let's get rid of professions" that gives off the impression that anything someone doesn't like should be removed from the game. For the most part I really don't see people complaining specifically about the things you say they do. I do see a ton of "You don't need gear", "An MMO isn't for solo play" and that evergreen favorite "Maybe an MMO isn't what you want to play." All of that dismissive, rude and unhelpful.

People like to have their characters progress throughout the time they play and some of us like to play pretty much for fun. Yeah, there are problems but mostly we're not the ones deciding who should and shouldn't be excluded from content.

I rarely see any of this in the game itself, just mostly here which—let's be honest—is not a fair representation of the player and skill mix. It's a discussion problem when people of bad faith are more interested in getting attention than seeing what can be done to improve the game.

[azka]

I look at the opposite and don't understand how people can accept the elitistic game that this has become. And the insane requirements that people ask for.

- People asking for Ahead of the Curve for Normal raids
- People asking for Keystone Mastery (+15s) to join +10s
- People asking for full Heroic gear to do Normal raids

etc etc, it's become a joke.

People are just entitled and lazy. The requirements to get into keys and raids are very easy to meet.

[RobertMugabe]

Now everything I am about to bring up can be seen in any mmo. This isn't about wow having unique problems just the frequency I see it compared to other games.

With that out of the way... why is it that in wow players just come off as brats as the norm?

You see people complaining constantly that they are not invited to high level content without having done any high level content. You see people turning their noses at starting gear claiming that it isn't near best in slot and only more powerful then the first few tiers of difficult content...


I just don't get why... in most communities these players are laughed out but here I wouldn't say they are catered to but they come off as the norm.

This entire discussion is stupid in one way or another. The game's crap because of the very few elitists pricks.

I wish WoW's focus content wasn't competitive content like m+, raids etc. because only a very small % of wow's playerbase does this content at all. Make WoW fun and challenging on the content that the vast majority of the playerbase consumes and make it rewarding.

- - - Updated - - -

Because if you whine incessantly for at least 5 years odds are good Blizz will fold and give you what you want.

Comments like this are always the dumbest thing in this discussion, when you consider that WoW has become increasingly more difficult over the years and getting good gear without doing high end content is not possible by design. In previous expansions it was in fact much easier to get your BiS than it is today. There was always a clear benefit to raiding etc., but you could for example craft BiS gear of purchase tier bis gear with badges.

So yeah it's a total myth that Blizzard ever gave any entitled person what they wanted and their design has clearly shifted in the opposite direction of what you're whining about.

[Biomega]

Not sure what's meant by "entitled" here as there seem to be some conflicting definitions oscillating wildly between people with no gear wanting carries, people with all the gear and unrealistic expectations of people joining their raids, and just people being all-around rude.

As to why these behaviors manifest with such pronounced visibility in WoW, the answer is simple: it's large, and it's old. The more people there are and the more entrenched they are because of seniority, the more likely things are to manifest in set patterns. That's a direct consequence of most emergent cultural norms, WoW's in-game community is just one example of that where it exists in an easily accessible, microcosm kind of way. But the same thing tends to happen in all sorts of communities, both in gaming and in other areas: as things go on, activities tend to sort themselves along familiar lines, which are reinforced by peoples' behaviors until they become patterns.

As to why there's a tendency towards extremes (on whichever part of the spectrum), that is partly because of self-selection for visibility (the more extreme positions also tend to make themselves more visible) and partly because WoW's design greatly favors efficiency. If your "success" is determined by how much content you complete in a given time period (either absolute numbers, or by threshold values) then naturally there will be a tendency for people to value their time more; and, consequently, to care more about preserving the value of that time. If my goal is to complete a full GV's worth of M+15 keys in one week and my play time is limited, then it makes sense that I would want to be efficient with my attempts - and, consequently, that I'd be selective with my group composition above and beyond the mere minimum requirement of a win/lose binary. Same goes for raids, including alt/ancillary raids like doing normal mode for tier sets: I don't NEED people with AotC to succeed in normal, but if I do get them then the chances of me completing the raid quickly and efficiently tend to go up. And since my time is limited, efficiency becomes attractive as a metric by which to play.

The same goes for approaches from the other end of the progression curve. If efficient methods exist to leapfrog the progression timeline, people are incentivized to make use of those - and people's expectations as to what kind of progression they see as "normal" shifts accordingly. That's why ilvl 226 starter gear loses its attractiveness rather quickly, despite being objectively useful in starting off the gear progression process: there's so many ways of jumping ahead that people's expectations for "adequate" starter gear are constantly rising. No one really thinks of linear progression along the lines of normal dungeon -> heroic dungeon -> mythic dungeon -> mythic keystone when you can basically skip everything before mythic keystone and effectively start with something like m+4 (which isn't super unrealistic these days). In part that's because of community development (there's enough geared/experienced people to fill those groups) and partly because Blizzard has never quite gotten the progression curve right (what ARE normal dungeons for at max level, exactly?), at least not the early parts of it (similarly a problem in their other games like e.g. Diablo 3). People leapfrog so much it throws expectations out of whack, and it creates a feeling of inadequacy people seek to remedy with MORE leapfrogging - hence people's expectations of wanting to do content way beyond them, just to "catch up".

[Houle]

15 dollars a month

/thread

10chars

[dragonflight10]

This problem doesnt exist, you are simply not good enough to play the way you want to, stick to a guild and all your problems vanish, but no, as the OP said, entitlement.

- - - Updated - - -



They arent normal, thats why they are ignored by the rest of the community, or exist in forums like these, and making fun off, but mmo-champion has become an echo chamber of such negativity that anything positive is the outlier.

Blizzard does the mistake of listening to a different demographic now and then, the problem is the amount of damage that causes.

I explained this before, WoW probably had over 200 million Unique accounts, out of that, the 10% are pretty much coming and going, eventually voice an opinion and so on, so around 20mil players.

In those 20 million players, there are like 500 different groups of players requesting for things, as example the loudest for SL was the "RPG CHOICES" idiots, that ruined SL.

Blizzard decided to listen to the % of players about RPG choices from inside those 20 million players, and the rest people simply got annoyed, cause no one asked for RPG choices, if covenants was made differently from the start, SL would be better by default.

This comment 10000%
all whose entitled idiots who want to the game to cater to their specific needs, must read this

- - - Updated - - -

I look at the opposite and don't understand how people can accept the elitistic game that this has become. And the insane requirements that people ask for.

- People asking for Ahead of the Curve for Normal raids
- People asking for Keystone Mastery (+15s) to join +10s
- People asking for full Heroic gear to do Normal raids

etc etc, it's become a joke.

I raided alot and did TONS of pugs
this happens but not as much
you probably got declined 2-5 times and said This, it's your fault that you do not know what groups to queue on

Check the comment above this, you are on of them
exaggerating anything that happens. Makes you look like a nonfunctional person btw

[arkanon]

I look at the opposite and don't understand how people can accept the elitistic game that this has become. And the insane requirements that people ask for.

- People asking for Ahead of the Curve for Normal raids
- People asking for Keystone Mastery (+15s) to join +10s
- People asking for full Heroic gear to do Normal raids

etc etc, it's become a joke.

I have played since day 1. I have never encountered this. Not once. I have seen people ask for APPROPRIATE gear to complete a raid, but I have never seen what you are saying. The good news is, there are some amazing solutions to this made up problem:

Get AOTC
Get KM
Get heroic gear

Those out of reach?

Join a community
Join a guild
Play with friends
Start your own group

So to be clear - the problem you present does not exist, at least not to the extreme level you are claiming, and, even if it DID exist, there are multiple solutions to this "problem", and not a single one of them require you to engage with these "entitled" people at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Could be because they're paying money and Blizzard tends to overpromise, underdeliver and then extract more money out of them through shady means.

"shady"? What does that even mean in this context?

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe it's suggestions like "Let's get rid of professions" that gives off the impression that anything someone doesn't like should be removed from the game.

Agree with this - you mean exactly like the person claiming raiding should be removed to introduce player housing, right?

[facefist]

No, people did NOT want those runs, people just accepted them cause they didn't wanna lead themselves. People HATED it, but not enough to lead, which is understandable.

Yes they did. Only the people who have the shit gear or no experience wants the runs where they get carried. People with experience and appropriate gear want other people to have those too.

People without gear and exp can form their own group and wipe as much as they want. Guess why they don't do it? Because people don't want to join those. Thus your argument is completely invalid.

But your posts prove the point of op. Somehow you feel you are entitled to being invited to a group, even if the leader doesnt want you. And then you are entitled to not be the leader yourself.

[Dracullus]

• Casual customers are disatisfied with the game, provide feedback on how they would like to see it improved.

Yes, because this is totally going on. It's not like forums are in constant hysteria mode, freaking out about every single change with partial informations and always assuming the worst.

[dragonflight10]

This entire discussion is stupid in one way or another. The game's crap because of the very few elitists pricks.

I wish WoW's focus content wasn't competitive content like m+, raids etc. because only a very small % of wow's playerbase does this content at all. Make WoW fun and challenging on the content that the vast majority of the playerbase consumes and make it rewarding.

- - - Updated - - -



Comments like this are always the dumbest thing in this discussion, when you consider that WoW has become increasingly more difficult over the years and getting good gear without doing high end content is not possible by design. In previous expansions it was in fact much easier to get your BiS than it is today. There was always a clear benefit to raiding etc., but you could for example craft BiS gear of purchase tier bis gear with badges.

So yeah it's a total myth that Blizzard ever gave any entitled person what they wanted and their design has clearly shifted in the opposite direction of what you're whining about.

You are delusional if you think a VERY small % of playerbase does m+ or raids, those things are popular and whatever "fun" content blizzard decides to create, People like you will find a way to criticize it heavily because you always want to the game to cater to your bizarre needs.

Secondly you calling that there is a BiS today just showed everyone that you don't know shit about gearing for the past 2 expansions, other than tier and legendaries it's hard to get the realistic BiS list because some pieces will come from Vault and that is purely RNG
and why should you get Bis gear with badges and crafting ? you are not doing the hard content, it's entitlement

i suggest you keep farming WQ/mounts/cosmetics and whine nonstop like always xD pathetic

[Skildar]

• Casual customers are disatisfied with the game, provide feedback on how they would like to see it improved.

• Diehard fanboys in denial that their game is flawed and not everybody loves it, tries pushing out the others out claiming that they are elitist.

• Years past and eventually the small contingent of diehard fanboys are the only people still playing the game, are confused why normies don't like it.

Hmmm...

I thought you were talking about FF XIV as I've never seen a player base in such deep denial


I guess some of it is true for wow. The fact that amongst long time players, you will find a lot that know what works well in their game environment and recommend new players pr vocal ones to join a guild and create their groups.

So basically taking actions and that will drive them away from the game as people want solutions to make things easy not to try and be a part of the solution.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I thought you were talking about FF XIV as I've never seen a player base in such deep denial

It depends on where you look. FFXIV's fandom on reddit and twitter is 100% cultist, but if you look at the official forums or the 4chan general or the FFXIV subforum on this site, you find that most people are in agreement about the flaws and would should be improved. Whereas it seems to be the opposite with WoW: there is a lot of criticism of WoW on reddit, while on the official forums and on MMO-C, you see a lot of bootlicking, and what criticism is offered is often met with condescension.