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  1. #41
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Previous new races uses the same Texture mapping as previous races. The differences that are there are minor so you can work around it... Dracthyr is vastly different that I find it very hard to do without compromising texture resolution in certain parts, mostly wings, if they were to match all other parts of the model.
    I would be perfectly content to have unarmoured wings.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by elderu View Post
    Which would get you this, plus any barbershop head-armor options:



    It's certainly far better than nothing, if that's indeed what they meant. Not exactly 'bare minimum' or anything, but not really going above and beyond for the new race either.

    Agree that gauntlets/wrist decor either from the Barbershop, but preferably like actual Bracer/Glove items being shown would bump at least fill in some of the limb-bareness.
    I think it would also be nice to add the 3d pieces of an armor.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I would be perfectly content to have unarmoured wings.
    Armor or no armor, they still use textures and thus they use UV mapping space. Which they share with the rest of the model. Thus they can't use the same mapping as previous races, ergo the old textures won't work with them. And most armor pieces are just textures. Not models with their own.

    Granted, this is mostly just my theory based on experience... I have no insight on how they've built up everything.
    However, IF they would use the same UV mapping as previous races there wouldn't be a question or even any work to make armors visible on them. They would simply just shove the same texture on them and it would work... thus I have to conclude the mapping is different. Which leads to remaking every single texture out there. Also making 2 sets of each texture in the future. The game file size would increases by a lot just to add that + every single armor they can use will be twice the work from here on out.

    I can understand why it's not worth it doing chest pieces or legs work with them. I would love to.
    And honestly, If they would make more pieces into actual 3d objects I think it would be easier for them to do so even with newer races without the same kind of drawbacks. Though 3d pieces would probably lead to stretched looks on per race basis.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-05-03 at 06:07 PM.

  4. #44
    It would be a massive failure to not see armour in dragon form.
    If they can't get the textures to work with the model that is their problem, they made a model that their armour textures would not fit on...
    (not counting the wings obviously, those can just be left bare)
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I absolutely have the same expectations for a new shapeshifting race that I would for, say, Worgen. Something that already exists.
    Oh, it sucks. I think it's a huge disservice. I think it's reasonable to hope for better. But I mean that "there will be exceptions to this thing they explicitly told us based on a face opening in a concept art" is wildly unreasonable. People keep doing this to themselves.

    Expecting better of Blizzard and asking for that isn't the same thing as the "having expectations" copium I'm referring to.

  6. #46
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    That would be fair enough... but one would think that they would have thought of that as they were actually putting the model together. It's not like they're stuck with a spaghetti coded rig from two decades ago. This is purpose built.

    Purpose built to be disappointing, apparently.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Previous new races uses the same Texture mapping as previous races. The differences that are there are minor so you can work around it... Dracthyr is vastly different that I find it very hard to do without compromising texture resolution in certain parts, mostly wings, if they were to match all other parts of the model.
    They don't need to cover wings in armor.

  8. #48
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    Because armor on bear makes no sense and would be completely worthless
    Hmmm.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    They don't need to cover wings in armor.
    Never said they did... they still require texture and thus take up UV mapping space for the model.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    That would be fair enough... but one would think that they would have thought of that as they were actually putting the model together. It's not like they're stuck with a spaghetti coded rig from two decades ago. This is purpose built.

    Purpose built to be disappointing, apparently.
    That's just how texturing for games work... if you have a complex model you will have less texture space per piece than if you have a cube or a simpler model. This is counteracted with higher resolution on the textures for said model. But since all textures are shared among all models you can't exactly do different resolutions. + the higher resolution, the bigger game size. That's why most games don't do 4k textures.

    if they were to add the same UV scaling on chests and legs to current textures the rest of them would probably get less texture resolution than required for their size and details... + considering the length of their upper body and legs texture could look stretched and have lesser resolution by simply having a larger surface area.

    They could make less of a complex model for it to work... but then I think players would complain about that.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Never said they did... they still require texture and thus take up UV mapping space for the model.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's just how texturing for games work... if you have a complex model you will have less texture space per piece than if you have a cube or a simpler model. This is counteracted with higher resolution on the textures for said model. But since all textures are shared among all models you can't exactly do different resolutions. + the higher resolution, the bigger game size. That's why most games don't do 4k textures.

    if they were to add the same UV scaling on chests and legs to current textures the rest of them would probably get less texture resolution than required for their size and details... + considering the length of their upper body and legs texture could look stretched and have lesser resolution by simply having a larger surface area.

    They could make less of a complex model for it to work... but then I think players would complain about that.
    One thing is sure, they should do it and I don't care how they will do it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Never said they did... they still require texture and thus take up UV mapping space for the model.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's just how texturing for games work... if you have a complex model you will have less texture space per piece than if you have a cube or a simpler model. This is counteracted with higher resolution on the textures for said model. But since all textures are shared among all models you can't exactly do different resolutions. + the higher resolution, the bigger game size. That's why most games don't do 4k textures.

    if they were to add the same UV scaling on chests and legs to current textures the rest of them would probably get less texture resolution than required for their size and details... + considering the length of their upper body and legs texture could look stretched and have lesser resolution by simply having a larger surface area.

    They could make less of a complex model for it to work... but then I think players would complain about that.
    You can already see the stretching issue ingame if your a pandaran male, that big ol belly leads to some armour looking bad because of stretching.

    But the issue isn't that it would look bad, its that the model should not have been designed in such a way where armour will look bad, the model should have been different or they should not have done the race in this way.

    People care about how their character looks, I doubt a majority will be ok looking like a half naked skinny lizard whenever they are in combat.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You can already see the stretching issue ingame if your a pandaran male, that big ol belly leads to some armour looking bad because of stretching.

    But the issue isn't that it would look bad, its that the model should not have been designed in such a way where armour will look bad, the model should have been different or they should not have done the race in this way.

    People care about how their character looks, I doubt a majority will be ok looking like a half naked skinny lizard whenever they are in combat.
    Yeah, stretching for sure already exist... the drawback of having shared textures across multitude of races with different shapes. They are however manageable.

    If the solution is to not model the race that it becomes an issue... how would you make this race?
    How would you make a dragon race without it's wings for example? You would have a model looking more like a lizard. Fairly sure people would want to have wings on the model....
    Thus it will share texture space, thus it will have a different UV mapping, thus it will not work with current textures.

    I guess the real answer would be to not make a dragon race with wings. I doubt that would be met with praise though, only complaints about why the wings aren't there.

    I do agree and think they should perhaps change their approach of how they deal with these sort of things. But it's easy to say without knowing how the entire engine and foundation is built up. You can't exactly rework the entire model and texturing process of such a long standing game and have everything work, it would probably lead to redoing lots of shit.
    Like, my answer to this problem would be have the wings as a separate model and thus not share the same UV space. I'm not sure how that would work with their rigging and animation and maybe even material stuff in their engine though, so It's easy to say, but could be hell in practice.

    Main point of my post is mostly to give a little bit of insight. I also want them to wear armors. As much of it as possible. Though my main would be the shoulder pads and belts, because they are often 3d models themselves and they stand out the most. I wish they would go away from the texture only when it comes to chest pieces and legs myself...
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-05-03 at 08:52 PM.

  13. #53
    Having the wings separate is also what first came to my head, if that gives issues maybe have the wings use the cape rigging points on a model? I'd be ok with not getting to show a cape much more then not being able to show off a chest piece.

    But if you can't get it work the obvious answer is to not make a draconic race...

    Same as why we, probably, don't have Naga as a playable race, them not having legs would likely cause a bunch of issues.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #54
    unfortunately they can't wear armor, current gear won't sit on their model properly. they will behave like worgen

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by elderu View Post
    When you think of a Worgen, do you feel you're playing a Human first and a Werewolf second? (sorry RPers I know you do, but that's not what I mean right now.) Or is it Wolf-woman/man first and Human as a fun racial option? Imagine how silly it would be if you couldn't fight your foes in your transmogs.
    When I think of Worgen, I think of Gilneans. The heritage questline goes out of its way to emphasize that the worgen are Gilneans first, and that the pack form isn't even an important aspect of their identity.

    As for not being able to fight foes in transmogs, I main a druid, so I don't have to imagine. It's a reality that I experience every day.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam552 View Post
    unfortunately they can't wear armor, current gear won't sit on their model properly. they will behave like worgen
    Ehm? Worgen show armour in their worgen form. They don't behave like Worgen unless they show your full equipment.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  17. #57
    They don't have to design Dracthyr tier sets if they remove tier sets again - pro-gamer move from Blizzard mid Dragonflight.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  18. #58
    The Patient Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    They don't have to design Dracthyr tier sets if they remove tier sets again - pro-gamer move from Blizzard mid Dragonflight.
    Honestly, if we just get one visible set, I'd be fine with that. I just want the set.

  19. #59
    Showing the 3D components is a really cool idea, I hope they go with that at the absolute very least.

  20. #60
    I hope they do this! Armor looks so cool on the dracthyr, especially their tier set. It would be a huge missed opportunity to deny them armor, and greatly diminish the race's potential overall.

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