[Movie] MCU: The Fantastic Four

[rhorle]

Again, there is no point in complaining about something that is already done, same way people will not complain about this if they make a fantastic four 2. But i guess that is too much reasonable for you

So if it is reasonable to not complain about things that are already done why do you always complain about things in shows. The She-hulk thread had you complain about a lot of things that were "done". You wouldn't have complained about the casting of Julia Garner as Shalla-Bal if you honestly believed that. It's done. It is strange when people unintentionally label the things they do as bad.

Again, people are complaining because its not Norrin Rad, you want to make it like it is a gender issue like 'we hate wamen" when we literally said they could Have made NOVA, a female herald instead.

Some have made it a gender issue. They called it a gender swap or attacked her appearance. Pretending that those things were not said is silly. They did pick a female hearld. Which means if you would accept Nova then you should also accept Shalla-Bal incarnation that is a hearld.

[Endus]

Again, Black Panther is specifically a story about an uncolonized, unbroken African kingdom, and the story is rooted in that. Race is an integral component to that story, more than just "how he looks."

No one would give a shit if Nick Fury showed up as his white version in the movies, even if the latest comic iteration of him was a black dude who looked a lot like SLJ.

I'd argue you could do a white War Machine too, and no one would care.

Falcon is a little tricky because in the comics he's deliberately a story about being an African American superhero (like Luke Cage) in the Avengers in a country which doesn't seem to give a shit about black people in the 60s, when his story started. In modern context you could probably cast him as white if you're reducing the story to "Cap sidekick, military, has a wingsuit." But Falcon and the Winter Soldier went the opposite way and leaned into it.

There's never been superheroes where being white has been intrinsic to who they are and what their story is. Supervillains, sure. Like, I'd be surprised if they cast a black man to play the former-Nazi Red Skull.

They do this a lot. Complain about changes to characters where their sex/gender/race/etc aren't relevant to their story, and then ask "what about if we made changes to this other character, where those factors are critical to their story?"

Steve Rogers and Isaiah Bradley are a clear case of how a character's story can be wildly affected by their identity. Hell, Isaiah Bradley is basically a "what if Steve was black?" question being answered. Spider-Man, not so much, which is why you have popular alternates like Spider-Gwen or Miles Morales; their different identities affect how they interact with the core story behind the character, but they're both in similar situations as Peter was when they get their powers. The story beats still "work", even with the adjustments for their differing identities.

Comparing to Black Panther is ridiculous, and even there, it doesn't matter if the Panther's a guy or a girl. It only really matters if they're ethnically Wakandan. That's why Killmonger was entitled to challenge in the first film.

This kind of stuff has always been played with in the comics. It isn't a new thing the MCU came up with.

[Syegfryed]

Again, Black Panther is specifically a story about an uncolonized, unbroken African kingdom, and the story is rooted in that. Race is an integral component to that story, more than just "how he looks."

No one would give a shit if Nick Fury showed up as his white version in the movies, even if the latest comic iteration of him was a black dude who looked a lot like SLJ.

I'd argue you could do a white War Machine too, and no one would care.

Falcon is a little tricky because in the comics he's deliberately a story about being an African American superhero (like Luke Cage) in the Avengers in a country which doesn't seem to give a shit about black people in the 60s, when his story started. In modern context you could probably cast him as white if you're reducing the story to "Cap sidekick, military, has a wingsuit." But Falcon and the Winter Soldier went the opposite way and leaned into it.

There's never been superheroes where being white has been intrinsic to who they are and what their story is. Supervillains, sure. Like, I'd be surprised if they cast a black man to play the former-Nazi Red Skull.

We are talking about DIFFERENT UNIVERSE, in this one, Ryan goslig is found as a baby and raised by the previous black panther

in this move we are kidna going with dance with the wolves approach, so it makes sense

[Endus]

We are talking about DIFFERENT UNIVERSE, in this one, Ryan goslig is found as a baby and raised by the previous black panther

in this move we are kidna going with dance with the wolves approach, so it makes sense

It's been done. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Kevin_Cole_(Earth-616)

You're just demonstrating your own lack of familiarity with Marvel yet again at this point.

[Syegfryed]

Again, GotG 3 came out last year.

already answered.

Then there is no point in complaining about this. It's done. She's the Silver Surfer.

I mean, people already complained, its done. No one is complaining further, except new people who came after.

The discussion is just going on because you and your council trying to shame people that complained about, trying to invalidate what they say, and people defending their pov.


And, they can always change actors before they start filming.

People were complaining when they thought they were doing a genderswap. When it was pointed out to them that this version of the Silver Surfer exists...then they started complaining that it isn't Norrin Radd.

Yeah, because by the end of the day, they wanted to see norrin radd, THE silver surfer or another herald. Not a genderswap nor a female version.

Seems to me you're the one making it about gender.

it was not me who created the character.

[Endus]

Yeah, because by the end of the day, they wanted to see norrin radd, THE silver surfer or another herald. Not a genderswap nor a female version.

Again, this is just complaining that it's a woman who was cast. That's the entire argument.

You're not getting Norrin Radd here. There's nothing wrong with Shalla Bal. Complaining "but I wanted Norrin Radd" is like watching the new X-Men '97 series and complaining that Morph's around, when you wanted to see Angel. Well, Angel's not there. Morph is. You're not the people writing this, and you don't actually have a valid criticism to make about the characters they chose to include.

You keep acting like there was a dishonest bait-and-switch with the character casting. There wasn't. It was always Shalla Bal. No one misled you, you're just not getting the character you most wanted. So what? That's not a negative. It's just you not getting your way.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

words

Wait did you paint Rhino red to be Endus?

[Fabinas]

That you're making it up. Inventing a story you want to believe.

Again; what you said was a claim of objective truth. Not a subjective opinion.

Another time your answer is a simple and plain "no u".

Thanks for your contribution, i guess.

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No, and you have no evidence that the character was added to the story because of that. Marketing might want more female representation but that doesn't mean all female characters are picked because of that marketing. They could have decided to tell a story with Shalla-bal in it while it also happened to align with any industry-wide representation goals.

So it the egg first or the hen.

Gotcha.

[Endus]

Another time your answer is a simple and plain "no u".

Thanks for your contribution, i guess.

You're the one making the positive claim without backing it up with any evidence at all.

That's not my error.

Any positive claim presented without evidence can be trivially dismissed.

[Fabinas]

My way of pointing out that you're aligning your opinion with some very shitty people. Back in the 90s I used to think the whole "Politically Correct" stuff was nonsense. Then I had a realization that the people who complained about it the most are pretty terrible people and maybe their complaints were a smokescreen for something else.



I'm mocking the idea that anyone should have an opinion on this subject. The movie is a long way away from coming out. She could be abysmal. She could be perfect. Whether she's a token is an irrelevant concern. Lando Calrissian is arguably a token character. How did that work out in the end?

You can not like the actor in question. I imagine there's people out there who hated her in Ozark and are baffled by her actor awards. Its a dumb opinion but not everybody likes the same things. These same people may eventually love her in FF or they'll refuse to see the movie because of her.

That's on you aligning them with me. I just said that there's a trend in the movie making business of casting more women in films for marketing and engagement reasons and that my opinion is they casted Garner as SS because of that trend. There's no preference for me, just observation.

Political correctness has a very big flaw. Generalising and blanket attributing motives to people. The same thing i am afraid you're doing here.

You shouldn't be mocking anything. They wanted a male SS, they are getting a female one and they complain against the choice. I suspect that has nothing to do with Garner's acting.

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You're the one making the positive claim without backing it up with any evidence at all.

That's not my error.

Any positive claim presented without evidence can be trivially dismissed.

If you want direct proof, ask the producers.

There's enough indirect proof of casting more women for the reasons i mentioned in this whole FORUM.

I'm not gonna indulge you more.

[rhorle]

So it the egg first or the hen. Gotcha.

Hence why I asked if you had any amount of evidence they determined on cast before story. You took offense to be asked for that and here we are showing why it is important for a discussion. What came first.

Has it ever been shown that the MCU changed characters only because of marketing? Because if that is how they picked characters there should be some evidence for other roles, right? The notion that a woman would only be picked because of marketing is silly. It could be for both but it could also be serendipity.

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Political correctness has a very big flaw. Generalising and blanket attributing motives to people.

Doesn't that mean your stance is flawed because you are generalizing and blanket attributing motives to people (the creatives for FF)?

[Endus]

Political correctness has a very big flaw. Generalising and blanket attributing motives to people. The same thing i am afraid you're doing here.

1> "Political correctness" pushes nothing of the sort, ideologically.

2> You realize you're the one doing this, here, right? Not those you're replying to?

[Fabinas]

1> "Political correctness" pushes nothing of the sort, ideologically.

2> You realize you're the one doing this, here, right? Not those you're replying to?

"No u", as usual.

How boring you being you.

[Endus]

"No u", as usual.

How boring you being you.

As for the first; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

You're using the term incorrectly. No "generalising", no "assigning motives". In fact, the opposite. Directly antipodal to what you're claiming it means.

For the second, you're the one generalizing when you say "Hollywood's cast people for marketing before, so we can assume they're doing so in this specific film's case". You're literally the one generalizing and projecting that onto individuals.

Pointing out that you're wrong and using words incorrectly is not a "no u" argument. Pointing out that your own criticisms apply only to your own claims is, admittedly, but if it's accurate, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

You just don't have any actual defense or counterpoint. So you've got to make this kind of sad jabs, hoping it'll get under my skin. I've been here a long time, and you're hardly the first to try that stuff.

[Ivanstone]

That's on you aligning them with me. I just said that there's a trend in the movie making business of casting more women in films for marketing and engagement reasons and that my opinion is they casted Garner as SS because of that trend. There's no preference for me, just observation.

Political correctness has a very big flaw. Generalising and blanket attributing motives to people. The same thing i am afraid you're doing here.

You shouldn't be mocking anything. They wanted a male SS, they are getting a female one and they complain against the choice. I suspect that has nothing to do with Garner's acting.

Or maybe you need to engage in some self-reflection. Or your just concern trolling. And you're arguing at length. Its a little more than just an observation.

Some subjects are worthy of mockery. Feel free to hurl some insults my way if she fucks up the part or its badly written. We won't know that for awhile though.

[Fabinas]

Or maybe you need to engage in some self-reflection. Or your just concern trolling. And you're arguing at length. Its a little more than just an observation.

Some subjects are worthy of mockery. Feel free to hurl some insults my way if she fucks up the part or its badly written. We won't know that for awhile though.

If you consider my posts as "arguing at length" you must be blind to not have observed the wall of texts some other people type in this forum.

I am just trying to make my position clear, because people in here are too quick to brand you ****-ist (add whatever you want in place of stars).

Why insult you? At least we are having a decent conversation, despite our disagreement.

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As for the first; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

You're using the term incorrectly. No "generalising", no "assigning motives". In fact, the opposite. Directly antipodal to what you're claiming it means.

For the second, you're the one generalizing when you say "Hollywood's cast people for marketing before, so we can assume they're doing so in this specific film's case". You're literally the one generalizing and projecting that onto individuals.

Pointing out that you're wrong and using words incorrectly is not a "no u" argument. Pointing out that your own criticisms apply only to your own claims is, admittedly, but if it's accurate, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

You just don't have any actual defense or counterpoint. So you've got to make this kind of sad jabs, hoping it'll get under my skin. I've been here a long time, and you're hardly the first to try that stuff.

The delulu is strong with this one.

I couldn't be arsed about you and what you think. You belong to the kind of people earth would be happy without. There's nothing here i post that is about you.

[Xath]

No "white saviour complex". You're making shit up and not even using the term correctly. None of what I've been arguing in this or most other threads has ever been about me at all. You're just engaging in outright slander and personal attacks to try and shame me into shutting up. It's not gonna work.

And I'll note you still can't cite a single solitary example of me actually being racist. Because nothing about what you referenced there would be racist, at all. You've got nothing, and you know it. Just a personal beef. Because I'm anti-racist. Apparently.

You very clearly aren't anti racist since you are fine with race bending of characters as long as they are white.

You do have a massive white savior complex and I am using it correctly you just don't like being called out on your particular brand of bigotry.

[En Sabah Nur]

You very clearly aren't anti racist since you are fine with race bending of characters as long as they are white.

You do have a massive white savior complex and I am using it correctly you just don't like being called out on your particular brand of bigotry.

Did a klaxon call go out for this thread for people like you to congregate and push a "yoouuuuu are the ones who are the racists!" angle? What utter ridiculousness.

Not to mention the guy above you saying people would be happy if another poster just died...

What is wrong with you people? You're all just so... broken.

[unfilteredJW]

Did a klaxon call go out for this thread for people like you to congregate and push a "yoouuuuu are the ones who are the racists!" angle? What utter ridiculousness.

Not to mention the guy above you saying people would be happy if another poster just died...

What is wrong with you people? You're all just so... broken.

Endus has put these masochists into the dirt so many times they've developed a fetish.

It's honestly hilarious and you see it across the forum with the same names.

[AcidicSyn]

Another time your answer is a simple and plain "no u".

Thanks for your contribution, i guess.

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So it the egg first or the hen.

Gotcha.

The egg came first because dinosaurs predate chickens and laid eggs.

I'll see myself out.