SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Endus]

The 3/5th compromise involved representatives from the south wanting to count slaves as population for the purposes of representation, and also denying them citizenship and voting. The anti-slavery position was to not count slaves at all. It's backwards to the current discussion. So, no, people on my side don't believe in the "3/5ths compromise but instead of slaves, it's urban residents." I stand by my post in decrying it as non-constructive and absolutely disingenuous. If you want to talk about existing compromises between small and large states, and federal devolvement, bringing up slavery and 3/5ths marks you as juvenile.

What's comparable is that the only reason the Southern States wanted to count slaves was to disproportionately improve their representation in Congress.

Meanwhile your nonsense about the EC is about wanting to disproportionally improve rural representation in Congress.

The root impetus is identical; manipulating processes to create a system that disproportionally privileges one group over another.

Voter suppression narratives revolved around evil Republicans conspired to hurt early voting. 2018->2022 it's up from 299,347 to 857,401. Huge. 212% more than 2020. Among black voters (Biden claims Republicans were targeting them), its up 102,056 compared to 2018.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-biden-claims/

"Our attempt to suppress the vote failed! That means voter suppression doesn't suppress the vote!"

That's not an argument. That's a firehose of bullshit.

[Ivanstone]

Voter suppression narratives revolved around evil Republicans conspired to hurt early voting. 2018->2022 it's up from 299,347 to 857,401. Huge. 212% more than 2020. Among black voters (Biden claims Republicans were targeting them), its up 102,056 compared to 2018.

5 Million Georgians participated in the 2020 POTUS elections.
1.3 Million Georgians participated in the 2022 GOP Primary.

One number is much smaller than the other. GOP's election laws aren't meant to effect a primary with minimal participation. They're meant to shave off voters in general elections where turnouts are much, much higher. 10 Hour line ups happened in 2020. Anything more than 10 minutes is entirely unacceptable.

At least you posted an opinion column from a conservative hack. That really helps your point.

[Rozz]

That’s known as trolling Rozz. Just fyi.

I understand your concern, but not every disagreement requires actual moderator intervention. Especially when the nature of politics will result in people blatantly talking past each other. Since it's not aggressive, we can debate or decide to move on. Despite how some people feel here, we [mods] don't and shouldn't act upon things just because we disagree with people within the scope of expected discourse.

And that's beside the fact it's inappropriate to post this while I'm currently engaging with someone. That can feel threatening or like bullying to the other poster. Normally I wouldn't engage with this sort of post for that reason, but FYI to those of you that do this -- don't. It's not welcome behavior or helpful.

[tehdang]

Tehdang, your entire argument is disingenuous on its face, and instead of trying to defend it in any legitimate way you call me juvenile despite never making much effort to engage in a manner that you request in others.

Consider that. Or ignore everything else I and others posted and continue to claim no one is making the effort.

You made no further effort to connect it to slavery and the 3/5ths compromise, so it appears we simply view the emotional freight and differences of that comparison differently. Thank you for what I believe were true comments of your own experience in rural Missouri, and perhaps we can engage in other circumstances on other topics. I hope you change your mind on dropping in modern slavery examples in the future.

It's not like there were any contributing factors (like a worldwide pandemic or something) that may have contributed to a general uptick between 2018 and 2022 in early voting either! You are really on to something here!

Before you go any further down this rabbit hole though, I would suggest some study in 9th grade statistics about correlation vs causation.

I might agree with you if the situation if we were talking 2020 and 2021.

5 Million Georgians participated in the 2020 POTUS elections.
1.3 Million Georgians participated in the 2022 GOP Primary.

One number is much smaller than the other. GOP's election laws aren't meant to effect a primary with minimal participation. They're meant to shave off voters in general elections where turnouts are much, much higher. 10 Hour line ups happened in 2020. Anything more than 10 minutes is entirely unacceptable.

At least you posted an opinion column from a conservative hack. That really helps your point.

So you were just very intent on comparing the actual elections to primaries. I compared primaries to primaries. You'd get a very strong case for suppression if you really want to persist in comparing presidential election years to midterms, or primaries to the actual election.

[tehdang]

@tehdang you mean like how prisoners can’t vote usually, are literal slaves, and count toward the population of the state/district they’re housed in? That modern day 3/5s slavery type bullshit?

African Americans might object just a tiny bit to their enslavement being compared to persons imprisoned from a court trial, jury of peers, and sentencing, but you do you. I'd have to ask Rozz if she views the institution of slavery in the late 18th century as being similar to some portion of felons in the 21st. Frankly, if her views agree with your conception of modern slavery ("literal slaves") as just more "bullshit" like the old, maybe I needed to understand that her conception of chattel slavery involved less unspeakable vast misery as I perceived.

[LilSaihah]

B) even if it was, this argument is steeped in privilege and laziness to think even a plurality of the US population has the means of doing that.

You can't afford a bus or train ticket?...
I appreciate it's a reductive point to make, but how much do you think you actually need to be able to move?

C) again this argument that the US has to be a patchwork of states in order to enshrine white supremacy in some states is uhhhhh.... care to fill in the blank?

If you want to reform your government, do it. I'm not going to stop you. Best of luck.

[Masark]

but how much do you think you actually need to be able to move?

Roughly triple your monthly rent (first, last, damage deposit), cost of transportatiation for your possessions, money to survive while looking for new work, additional money to allow for the loss of existing support network, etc.

And you need to obtain all that money while your current income is approximately equal to your minimum living expenses.

[Endus]

African Americans might object just a tiny bit to their enslavement being compared to persons imprisoned from a court trial, jury of peers, and sentencing, but you do you. I'd have to ask Rozz if she views the institution of slavery in the late 18th century as being similar to some portion of felons in the 21st. Frankly, if her views agree with your conception of modern slavery ("literal slaves") as just more "bullshit" like the old, maybe I needed to understand that her conception of chattel slavery involved less unspeakable vast misery as I perceived.

How have you never read the 13th Amendment?

Prisoners can literally be enslaved, in the USA. You folks never banned slavery completely.

[LilSaihah]

Roughly triple your monthly rent (first, last, damage deposit)

Should be substantially less than your standing rent, as a colonist from an overpopulated state; as I understand, NYC and Cali have the highest rents in the country.

cost of transportatiation for your possessions

You don't need your possessions. Liquidate them if you can, abandon them if you can't. You have a support network; should anything be of particular value to you which you can't take with your initial move, stash it with them until you can make arrangements for it.

money to survive while looking for new work,

This is the age of the Internet. You can and should be looking for and securing work prior to your arrival to a new area.

And you need to obtain all that money while your current income is approximately equal to your minimum living expenses.

So when we get that deposit back from the current place we're staying, we should be doing alright? The only thing we've lost is the support network, and we don't really have a dollar value on how much that is worth, both because we don't know what we already have at the target destination and we don't know what we'll find there. We'll probably find a church there though, that might work.

I dunno maybe I'm missing something that's really obvious? I've done these relocations four times now. The most I've ever been out is $500, because I bought a new mattress & bedframe.

[Kaleredar]

Should be substantially less than your standing rent, as a colonist from an overpopulated state; as I understand, NYC and Cali have the highest rents in the country.



You don't need your possessions. Liquidate them if you can, abandon them if you can't. You have a support network; should anything be of particular value to you which you can't take with your initial move, stash it with them until you can make arrangements for it.



This is the age of the Internet. You can and should be looking for and securing work prior to your arrival to a new area.



So when we get that deposit back from the current place we're staying, we should be doing alright? The only thing we've lost is the support network, and we don't really have a dollar value on how much that is worth, both because we don't know what we already have at the target destination and we don't know what we'll find there. We'll probably find a church there though, that might work.

I dunno maybe I'm missing something that's really obvious? I've done these relocations four times now. The most I've ever been out is $500, because I bought a new mattress & bedframe.

"If you're strapped for cash because you can't get a job in a workforce that disrespects your labor, dissolve your entire life and go on the lam and flee to another state; it's that simple."

That's really the America you're pitching, hmmm? Not one where the poor and downtrodden are able to work for themselves because a system exists in which they are protected from those trying to exploit their labor and capitol, but who have to instead constantly migrate like boxcar hobos trying to outrun the feckless system constantly trying to devour them?

As far as "wages" go... the average price of rent in Miami, Florida (by republican estimation a red-blooded, southern state run by god-fearing, by-your-own-bootstraps conservatives willing to let the man live off the fat of his labor in a just and wholesome society) and the average price of rent in San Francisco (By republican estimation a state run by a hellish den of godless liberals who predatorily steal from the working man to fund the lives of the morally weak too lazy to work) are pretty much the same, in the neighborhood of 2.5k a month for a studio apartment. You heard me right. A studio apartment.

You know what the average income is in Miami? 40k dollars. You know what the average income in SF is? 160k dollars. Four times higher.

Sounds like conservative policies aren't helping to balance things out just by having nominally lower taxes. Because I can guarantee you the average floridian isn't saving 120k a year in "not being taxed." So maybe trying to constantly run from (liberal) state to (conservative) state in the hope that apathetic conservative leadership doesn't lead to a massive inflation in the cost of living out of the blue isn't the greatest suggestion for how people should lead their lives.

Or would your suggestion just be to once again pull up stakes and run to yet another state? Hope the person in question doesn't have... you know, family or friends or any extenuating circumstances or obligations that keep them from basically becoming a wandering vagrant for hire as you seem to suggest.

[LilSaihah]

We in australia haven’t had constant and severe wage suppression to the degree the US has, so even on unemployment I have been able to relocate, but I live a very scant existence, others do not, on top of “just move” doesn’t solve anything regarding the failings of the US election systems. It’s like trying to counter the obscene environmental damage of crypto by walking whenever you go shopping.

We haven't really had it great here either when it comes to rental prices, housing and rent have gone up by around 100% while wages have gone up around 10%. Not American, but still not good.

My point is very specifically towards "well the system's racist". Yeah the election system might be bad but it's dumb as hell to suggest it's racist. It's the same as suggesting voter ID laws are racist because 'minorities are less likely to have ID'; it's a roundabout argument to try to make something racist when it isn't.

"If you're strapped for cash because you can't get a job in a workforce that disrespects your labor, dissolve your entire life and go on the lam and flee to another state; it's that simple."

Or would your suggestion just be to once again pull up stakes and run to yet another state? Hope the person in question doesn't have... you know, family or friends or any extenuating circumstances or obligations that keep them from basically becoming a wandering vagrant for hire as you seem to suggest.

Yeah do it. Honestly it sounds kind of appealing. Maybe I should apply for a working holiday visa in America.
Halfway wishing I'd gotten into building, to be honest. It's not really that mentally intensive, you get buckets of ducats for it, and everywhere needs more houses.

[DarkTZeratul]

It's the same as suggesting voter ID laws are racist because 'minorities are less likely to have ID'; it's a roundabout argument to try to make something racist when it isn't.

Voter ID laws are absolutely racist. It is not a coincidence that most such laws are specifically designed around requiring IDs that minorities are least likely to have. They're just not blatantly racist, so as to allow their proponents to claim they're really just about election security. Doesn't change the fact that they're racist in origin.

[uuuhname]

You can't afford a bus or train ticket?...
I appreciate it's a reductive point to make, but how much do you think you actually need to be able to move?

again... this is your privilege and laziness talking, nothing more.

I really have no idea where you people get this idea that people can AFFORD to do that. besides you literally never at any point in your life have tried to find a place to live on your own. you're just intellectually lazy to argue for this crap.

If you want to reform your government, do it. I'm not going to stop you. Best of luck.

so why then are you saying I should move away if I don't like the way my government works? It really sounds to me like you just want to tell people to be quite and stop acting like the world isn't on fire when it most certainly is.

you can switch your brain off, doesn't mean the rest of us want to.

[Twdft]

Repeating it doesn't make it more persuasive than the first time.

You probably didn't read my question the first time, so let's try again:

Do you believe that the vote of a person living in rural America should be worth exactly the same as the vote of a person living in a dense metro?

This is a yes or no question btw.

[LilSaihah]

besides you literally never at any point in your life have tried to find a place to live on your own. you're just intellectually lazy to argue for this crap.

I've moved house four times over the last five years, and something like 8 over my entire life. I've always been the one doing every step of the arrangements; while I have lived with other people, their only obligation was to pay their rent on time, and I was responsible for doing all the legwork with the new landlords etc.

Yeah I know what I'm doing when it comes to moving house.

so why then are you saying I should move away if I don't like the way my government works? It really sounds to me like you just want to tell people to be quite and stop acting like the world isn't on fire when it most certainly is.

I didn't say you should, I said you can, and that because you have that right to freedom of movement it's a bit silly to say that the electoral college is racist.

If the world is on fire, it would be in your best interests to do anything other than argue on the internet about whether you can buy a bus ticket.

[Shadowferal]

I've moved house four times over the last five years, and something like 8 over my entire life. I've always been the one doing every step of the arrangements; while I have lived with other people, their only obligation was to pay their rent on time, and I was responsible for doing all the legwork with the new landlords etc. Yeah I know what I'm doing when it comes to moving house. I didn't say you should, I said you can, and that because you have that right to freedom of movement it's a bit silly to say that the electoral college is racist. If the world is on fire, it would be in your best interests to do anything other than argue on the internet about whether you can buy a bus ticket.

It sounds like you don't have children...

[LilSaihah]

It sounds like you don't have children...

Yeah if I did have kids, especially young children, I would be very reluctant to do the kind of movements I've done over the last few years. I know young kids really don't cope well with that kind of moving.

[UnifiedDivide]

Yeah I know what I'm doing when it comes to moving house.

Tbf, only when it comes to your own country. Doing so in the US is an entirely different game. That seems to be your entire issue in this discussion, not being able to see things through an American lens.

[Ivanstone]

So you were just very intent on comparing the actual elections to primaries. I compared primaries to primaries. You'd get a very strong case for suppression if you really want to persist in comparing presidential election years to midterms, or primaries to the actual election.

Actual elections are where the change in power happens. GOP suppression laws are intended to entrench their power. Now Kemp could've rolled out some of the usual tricks against Perdue but that would just hurt him later in the year. Seriously how would throwing out voter registrations in Democrat areas be even noticeable in a GOP primary?

[Glorious Leader]

Voter ID laws are absolutely racist. It is not a coincidence that most such laws are specifically designed around requiring IDs that minorities are least likely to have. They're just not blatantly racist, so as to allow their proponents to claim they're really just about election security. Doesn't change the fact that they're racist in origin.

Its a poll tax just called something different.