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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    Considering Pike is channeling Kirk and the usual "cowboy in space" trope, I very much doubt they were "inspired" by Seth McFarlane.

    That said, I was a bit disappointed by Pike almost completely being a clone of Kirk in that regard. Both live on a ranch in the Midwest, both love to ride horses, etc. It would have been nice to see them do something different for Pike. Like have him be a city boy from a rougher part of town (23rd century-ily speaking), or even just a hardworking farmer or something if they wanted to stick with the Midwest feel.
    Well no in this case I was wondering if Seth was intentionally channeling something from Star Trek.

  2. #122
    Another good episode, the lack of formality on the bridge annoys me a little but is growing on me, it's just a little jarring.

    I know there was talk on here about there being a trans person and some didn't like it, this boiled down to Spock and chapel talking about a new guest they were going to meet, and chapel says something like ' yes they are supposed to be brilliant' that's the worst paraphrase ever and definitely wrong but that is how it was said, the actor (not sure how to gender that sorry) was really good, there were allegories made but I won't spoil the episode and I thought it was done eloquently.

    I'm enjoying this series and look forward to it weekly, I can't remember the last time I wanted a ten episode series to be twenty odd as used to be standard

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Well no in this case I was wondering if Seth was intentionally channeling something from Star Trek.
    Well you'd have to dig back and possibly find quotes from McFarlane on this --

    But it wouldn't surprise me that, even if it may not have been a conscious "ok I want you to sound like Star Trek Captain Kirk" type of direction, it was still there as an influence because, well, of course Star Trek would be a major influence on a show like this.

    So that even if it was unintended - the direction, or the actor themselves, would end up channeling their own 'Captain Kirk' ideas in 'commanding a starship' because it would have been the most widely viewed/mainstream tv show/movies to influence the idea of 'what this should look/sound like.'

    Along with the fact that 'military commanders' or "Captains" of military-esque ships -- often sound very similar when they are in 'command mode'. There's an expectation, I think, esp. in the viewing public, of how we expect these people to act/sound when they are on active duty and giving orders. So, invariably, that's going to then influence any actor playing a character in that position of command.

    Just my thoughts anyway. And I want to say I think I've read in interviews that McFarlane is a fan of Trek and grew up watching the show as well, and wanted to pay homage in his own "Star Trek" short of show - but that may be a false memory =D.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    Another good episode, the lack of formality on the bridge annoys me a little but is growing on me, it's just a little jarring.
    I like it. It indirectly reinforces the idea that Starfleet is not a military organization, that the Enterprise isn't a military ship, nor is it on a military mission. It's also been shown in numerous ways that Pike doesn't like traditional command structures and greatly values the feedback of his crew, and so it fits well. Not to mention that Pike himself clearly likes to joke around and keep things light, invoking the best from everyone under his command.

    I know there was talk on here about there being a trans person and some didn't like it, this boiled down to Spock and chapel talking about a new guest they were going to meet, and chapel says something like ' yes they are supposed to be brilliant' that's the worst paraphrase ever and definitely wrong but that is how it was said, the actor (not sure how to gender that sorry) was really good, there were allegories made but I won't spoil the episode and I thought it was done eloquently.
    Wait, was Captain Angel supposed to be the "super-featured and ultra-woke transgender omfg!!!11one" character people were losing their shit over? I didn't even realize she was transgender, or see any emphasis on that whatsoever. Or was it one of the other pirates or something?

    In retrospect I did notice that she was crazy thin and thought she could use a cheeseburger or two in order to look a bit more healthy, but that was about it.

    I'm enjoying this series and look forward to it weekly, I can't remember the last time I wanted a ten episode series to be twenty odd as used to be standard
    Right? I'm really bummed out that we only have a few more episodes to go. Especially with them dropping the Sybok bomb on us there at the end. I suspected that he had to have been at that facility, and I did pick up weird comments about who Angel was after, but I didn't actually think they were going to acknowledge him, let alone feature him so profoundly.
    Last edited by Infinity Cubed; 2022-06-16 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post


    Wait, was Captain Angel supposed to be the "super-featured and ultra-woke transgender omfg!!!11one" character people were losing their shit over? I didn't even realize she was transgender, or see any emphasis on that whatsoever. Or was it one of the other pirates or something?

    In retrospect I did notice that she was crazy thin and thought she could use a cheeseburger or two in order to look a bit more healthy, but that was about it.
    y.
    Yeah it was them, I has to check though lol

    I had a longer response but phone keeps fucking it up
    Last edited by molliewoof; 2022-06-16 at 09:39 PM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    Yeah it was them, I has to check though lol

    I had a longer response but phone keeps fucking it up
    It’s kinda like the Ms marvel thread: once people realize they can’t just rant and bait about their political topic of choice, they amazingly seem to vanish from the thread and don’t have any more interest in discussing the show.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    Considering Pike is channeling Kirk and the usual "cowboy in space" trope, I very much doubt they were "inspired" by Seth McFarlane.

    That said, I was a bit disappointed by Pike almost completely being a clone of Kirk in that regard. Both live on a ranch in the Midwest, both love to ride horses, etc. It would have been nice to see them do something different for Pike. Like have him be a city boy from a rougher part of town (23rd century-ily speaking), or even just a hardworking farmer or something if they wanted to stick with the Midwest feel.
    Nope. HArd pass. I dont want them to do anything different. Different is when the android activates and dispatches a room full of romulans like they were droids in the prequel. Diffferent is when that same android superman leaps to the stairs and kung fu kicks a romulan off the side of those stairs. Nope. Hard pass. I'll take fucking cowboy diplomacy any day.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Nope. HArd pass. I dont want them to do anything different. Different is when the android activates and dispatches a room full of romulans like they were droids in the prequel. Diffferent is when that same android superman leaps to the stairs and kung fu kicks a romulan off the side of those stairs. Nope. Hard pass. I'll take fucking cowboy diplomacy any day.
    How the hell does that relate, in any way shape or form, with anything I said?

    I didn't say shit about changing his character. Just that it's lame that his 'background' is identical to Kirk's; a horse-loving rancher from the Midwest.

  9. #129
    Anson Mount is so hot it really doesn't matter what he is tbh

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    It’s kinda like the Ms marvel thread: once people realize they can’t just rant and bait about their political topic of choice, they amazingly seem to vanish from the thread and don’t have any more interest in discussing the show.

    I've not been in that thread, I'm on a bit of a marvel downer atm from the title though is it

    ' rah female superheroes stealing male superheroes rah the message' ?

    If so a hundred percent agree

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    The comedy interjected inside a standard Trek show is nice: The problem is the show isn't very original or smart. Character-focused episodes of Orville are good, when it tries to do political commentary its extremely bad. It's not even progressive compared to the Original Star Trek series, instead Orville just both-sides every topic.
    This is one of the things I enjoy about the Orville. I typically don't care for preaching at all in my entertainment. But if a show is going to broach a hot topic, I'd rather them make an attempt to show all sides and represent everyone instead of just representing their side, demonizing folks who disagree with them.

    Feels like most folks suspect people who disagree with them are evil. The thought process goes something like, "I just want good things for as many people as possible, which is why I believe the way I do. So if you disagree with me, you must want bad things for most people, which makes you evil". When the truth is more like most people on all sides want good things for as many people as possible, the only disagreement is how to reach that point. I think the Orville does a better job reflecting this and leaves out the, "you disagree with us so we'll show everyone that your motives are evil", trope.
    Last edited by Ragedaug; 2022-06-17 at 10:08 AM.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    I've not been in that thread, I'm on a bit of a marvel downer atm from the title though is it

    ' rah female superheroes stealing male superheroes rah the message' ?

    If so a hundred percent agree
    Only to a small degree. It's more "rawr, she has brown skin and she's a Muslim and they're trying to shove it down my throat rawr" types. Which is particularly hilarious because her immediate family life is probably one of the most stable, loving, and normal families ever shown in the genre.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    This is one of the things I enjoy about the Orville. I typically don't care for preaching at all in my entertainment. But if a show is going to broach a hot topic, I'd rather them make an attempt to show all sides and represent everyone instead of just representing their side, demonizing folks who disagree with them.

    Feels like most folks suspect people who disagree with them are evil. The thought process goes something like, "I just want good things for as many people as possible, which is why I believe the way I do. So if you disagree with me, you must want bad things for most people, which makes you evil". When the truth is more like most people on all sides want good things for as many people as possible, the only disagreement is how to reach that point. I think the Orville does a better job reflecting this and leaves out the, "you disagree with us so we'll show everyone that your motives are evil", trope.
    Yeah, no.

    "But you know, Hitler, flat-Earthers, white nationalists, climate change deniers, racists, and suicide-is-good people all do make a darn good point!" After all, they all want 'good' things for 'as many people as possible,' so it's only right to show their sides, too.

    There is such a thing as being wrong, evil, and/or dangerously stupid. And no, their beliefs don't deserve equal light in the world.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    How the hell does that relate, in any way shape or form, with anything I said?

    I didn't say shit about changing his character. Just that it's lame that his 'background' is identical to Kirk's; a horse-loving rancher from the Midwest.
    Yea thats fine. Classic rick and morty adventures. Because changing his back ground will be done by some stupid executive committee with a combined 1 ball and no brains and he will become rafi. Or rios. Or some other stupid edgy hipster backstop bullsht. His kid left and he's a drug addict. Nope. Hard pass.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea thats fine. Classic rick and morty adventures. Because changing his back ground will be done by some stupid executive committee with a combined 1 ball and no brains and he will become rafi. Or rios. Or some other stupid edgy hipster backstop bullsht. His kid left and he's a drug addict. Nope. Hard pass.
    Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

    They literally made up his background with this season of the show. There's no ancient canon being changed (or suggested). Nothing. They randomly just decided to clone Kirk's background for him when there were tons of more creative options available, and even one of the myriad options there were only slightly different would have been preferred, such as the aforementioned idea of him being a hard-working farmer instead of a lazy rancher who likes horses.

    Lay off the fucking drugs, man.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    But it is a big deal, because of people like you that want to keep people that aren't like you invisible in exactly the manner you are asking for. Various groups of people have been forced out onto the fringes of society for centuries and just now we're opening up the spaces for them to even exist publicly, of course that's going to be big freaking news.

    And you don't know why they include an actor or scene at all, so how can you even say it's to "check off an inclusivity box". That's just your bigotry showing because people like you always assume that must be the case when one of these groups is represented. Which, again, is why it has to be shouted from the rooftops that they're there ... because too many people want to keep them invisible and they're tired of it.
    This post...

    I like this post, well said.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    This post...

    I like this post, well said.
    The whole complaint is even more sad (and embarrassing for them) because absolutely nothing was made of the fact that she was transgender in the show. Not even a peep or suggestion. She just happened to be a transgender actor.

    "OMG, they exist, that's enough for my head to explode as they shove it down my throat, plus I just saw one so I might be gay now, ahhhhhh!"

    Seriously though, I had actually forgotten all about the kerfuffle they were making until after well after the show, then I had to think back for a moment to try and figure out who the fuck they were even talking about.

  17. #137
    It felt a bit weird to have as much comedy moments in the latest Star Trek episode as it did.

    I'm fine with fun in my Star Trek, of course. I love the Lower Decks show. But it does feel like Star Trek saw that the Orville was making a great show, based on their original episodic formula they moved on from, with added humor. And decided to try the same.

    And it works. I'm having a great time with Strange New World's return to episodic format and a focus on exploring social issues through the lens of future science and aliens.

    I guess I just can't shake the feeling like this show and The Orville are up against each other, with both shows even airing on the same day. It may not be the case at all, and we'd have the exact same Star Trek show, had The Orville never come out. It just does feel like The Orville showed there was still a viable niche there.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    Seriously though, I had actually forgotten all about the kerfuffle they were making until after well after the show, then I had to think back for a moment to try and figure out who the fuck they were even talking about.
    To me that’s ideal representation. It’s not hidden and it’s not discussed if it’s not relevant to the plot. The nod to “being yourself” may have even been too subtle if one didn’t know the actress background.

    That said I enjoyed Dr. Aspen, but didn’t care much for Captain Angel. A bit too heavy on the ham. That’s not to say Dukat wasn’t heavy on the ham at times too, so I wouldn’t be upset if she returned.

    I do need to know how many people actually run this ship. 30? That was an excessively easy ship takeover by a dozen or so pirates. Starfleet really is best of the best so this ragtag bunch was enough to break suspension for me. Does Trek have a sliding scale of crew competence? Of course, but this was one time it went a bit too far imho. Certainly didn’t make it the worst episode of trek or even the season.

    The “Please stop” made me forgive everything though. Pike can’t die for a decade and Mount can do no wrong in this role.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    The whole complaint is even more sad (and embarrassing for them) because absolutely nothing was made of the fact that she was transgender in the show. Not even a peep or suggestion. She just happened to be a transgender actor.

    "OMG, they exist, that's enough for my head to explode as they shove it down my throat, plus I just saw one so I might be gay now, ahhhhhh!"

    Seriously though, I had actually forgotten all about the kerfuffle they were making until after well after the show, then I had to think back for a moment to try and figure out who the fuck they were even talking about.
    Hope my phone doesn't cock up this time but yeah the only reason I knew they were trans was because of the posts on here, I was looking for it, I don't think I'd have noticed had it not been for that.

    I really liked their conversations with Spock who, struggling with being half human half Vulcan and being confused was a little analogous to what I imagine young trans people experience, I am no expert here but I thought that was what they were going for.

    I honestly don't know how the advert at the end of the previous week's show could have started any debate, was it just a minute of chapel going 'they, they, they, they'?

    Just a good series

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Cubed View Post
    Yeah, no.

    "But you know, Hitler, flat-Earthers, white nationalists, climate change deniers, racists, and suicide-is-good people all do make a darn good point!" After all, they all want 'good' things for 'as many people as possible,' so it's only right to show their sides, too.

    There is such a thing as being wrong, evil, and/or dangerously stupid. And no, their beliefs don't deserve equal light in the world.

    Should you present both sides on an issue where almost no one agrees with the other side, like pedophilia? No, that's dumb. Presenting both sides to Hitler or racism or suicide-is-good? Again, completely dumb and doesn't speak well for you that you read what I typed and thought that's what I was referencing so you decided to make that your argument.

    What I'm suggesting is when they show both sides of an issue that has at least near 35/65 type support. I think that's good. If half of the people disagree with you, that's something we need to dialog about so we can all figure it out. If you are on the 60% side on an issue, and think that the other 40% that disagree with you are all evil, that makes you an idiot and part of the problem.

    As Daryl Davis noted (reflected in my sig), once we can not talk with the other side about our disagreements, that's when violence begins.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

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