Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Slant]

'A mom of two children at Uvalde was put in handcuffs after urging police and law enforcement to enter the school.

Once freed from her cuffs, she jumped the school fence, ran inside and sprinted out with her kids.'

lol ACAB

I'd rather not brush all cops with that ACAB stroke, if I was you. Honestly, it's not even their fault that the US organises this type of bloodsport. The worst you can say about these guys is that they're badly trained cowards not doing their job. They're not actually evil.

Reactionary pseudo-anarchist bullshit like ACAB shouldn't have a place in a civilised discussion about modern American sports entertainment.

[jonnysensible]

But... yeah, if you're so predisposed to believe the worst about any situation involving a police officer that you misinterpret vague information in the most unrealistic way and then not only convince yourself that it's true, but attempt to convince others that it's true... then you're anti-cop and a cop-hater.

sorry m8 the cops arent gonna shag u

[Ivanstone]

Most likely because the M16 is fully automatic whereas the AR15 is not.

Arbitrary distinction. I consider an AR15 to be a lot more dangerous than a single shot rifle. Both are effectively the same from a regulatory perspective. Some gun nuts are probably itching at a chance to sue the government for restricting their right to fully automatic weapons.

[Slant]

I mean every time kids die this way, Media goes all "They'll take our guns" which leads to more votes for the GOP and more guns sold for the NRA.

It was one of these events where I speculated if the NRA was evil enough to actually instigate these mass shootings, seeing that everytime something happens, gun sales skyrocket.

[Edge-]

I mean every time kids die this way, Media goes all "They'll take our guns" which leads to more votes for the GOP and more guns sold for the NRA.

Conservative media*

Because they're as dishonest as Republicans.

[Nymrohd]

Conservative media*

Because they're as dishonest as Republicans.

And other media will still report on ideas for gun reform which to gun nuts will only translate as "They'll take our guns!"

Also bonus points, the Democrats will talk about possible measures but actually implement nothing of value which means their voters lose faith in them. Another win for the GOP.

[beanman12345]

Complete second hand embarrassment.

[Edge-]

And other media will still report on ideas for gun reform which to gun nuts will only translate as "They'll take our guns!"

If that's how people take it, fine. They'll either be wrong, or panicky idiots who don't want to think of actual ways to prevent the continued regular mass-murder of children at school.

Also bonus points, the Democrats will talk about possible measures but actually implement nothing of value which means their voters lose faith in them. Another win for the GOP.

Or, will hopefully animate more voters to try to get enough people in office who actually want to do something about the issue because they care about protecting kids.

[Levelfive]

Medivh cheats:

"An incredible backtrack. DPS Dir. and Gov. Abbott both said repeatedly that the gunman was "engaged with" by an officer outside. DPS has been asked about this several times, as it was completely unclear what this meant. Now, the story has changed completely. More will too."

https://twitter.com/Sarah_Boxer/stat...HeXp_8la0GE2Dw

"The cops have repeatedly shifted the story on this. They can't be trusted to investigate themselves. What's the mechanism for the FBI to take over?"

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/...bUuHxuhTDpDVdQ

New information in nested tweets.

[Edge-]

Medivh cheats:

"The cops have repeatedly shifted the story on this. They can't be trusted to investigate themselves. What's the mechanism for the FBI to take over?"

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/...bUuHxuhTDpDVdQ

New information in nested tweets.

Huh, so they didn't engage the shooter outside. Man, maybe the cops and Greg Abbott should verify information before they put out mountains of copaganda they have to backtrack and correct later.

[Edge-]

I'm hesitant to believe that either side actually truly care, and aren't both just using it for political gain over the other. America is just too corrupt -- it feeds off of fear.

One side keeps proposing actual solutions and prevention methods.

The other side keeps arguing for bulletproof blankets and a military presence at schools, while blaming "mental health" and doing nothing to increase funding for mental health, and instead often cutting funding for mental health services. This is the side that also won't shut up about how much they care about saving the lives of children and protecting them.

I don't think it's a "both sides" issue, Winter Blossom. I'm pretty sure there's only one "side" that's refused to even engage with a serious discussion of things we could do to prevent these despite them being a regular feature of this country for decades.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2088371.html

And a victim that wasn't even at the scene, apparently. The husband of one of the teachers murdered died of a heart attack that the family attributes to stress/grief after learning the news that his wife was killed.

Sure, likely other complicating health issues. Sure it's not a direct connection. But that's not gonna stop me from pointing out that these shootings have impacts that ripple out well beyond just the victims in the school.

[Levelfive]

Huh, so they didn't engage the shooter outside. Man, maybe the cops and Greg Abbott should verify information before they put out mountains of copaganda they have to backtrack and correct later.

Really, that first, second, or third story was terrible for their 'good guy with a gun' bullshit. Someone on twitter pointed out that what this really demonstrates is that cops are powerless against a kid with an AR-15, which is only the latest reason in a long unconscionable, unforgivable history of needless death and tragedy for gun control.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm hesitant to believe that either side actually truly care, and aren't both just using it for political gain over the other. America is just too corrupt -- it feeds off of fear.

'Both sides' really? What an insipid take.

[Edge-]

Sure, one side actually makes sense (Democrats)... but I think it's very gullible to believe that they aren't also trying to use this in a way to push voters their way.

Yeah mean, how dare those Democrats push for more political power so they can actually try to reduce the incidents of children being murdered in schools (and accomplish other political goals). Those damned dastardly Democrats!

The whole, "Now isn't the time for politics" line, which I know you aren't saying but is similar to some of what you are implying, is the most deadbrained shit. The time right after an avoidable tragedy is the PERFECT time to talk politics and start working on solutions to prevent these tragedies in the future. Like, after a plane crash nobody is out there saying, "We can't talk about FAA guidelines and safety standards and the problems of the agency being underfunded and allowing aircraft makers to self-police and regulate. Sure over 100 people lost their lives as a result of this, but now is not the time."

but I think most are just as corrupt as Republican's and want to use this tragedy to their advantage.

Holy shit huge "both sides" energy.

[Edge-]

Democratic politicians use this tragedy to sway voters and point fingers.

Man, the only way to avoid this kinda accusation is for Democrats to just shut up and never say anything about wanting to reduce gun violence and the number of dead kids, apparently. Because any time they do say anything it's just heartless politicking, apparently.

[Slant]

I'm hesitant to believe that either side actually truly care, and aren't both just using it for political gain over the other. America is just too corrupt -- it feeds off of fear.

It doesn't matter if they truly care, though, does it? You have the solution, vote for the side that also promotes that solution. Whether or not they're emotionally invested doesn't matter as long as they do what you want them to do.

[PhaelixWW]

They are fundamentally different from other semi-automatics in that they have utility that mimics a military weapon.

Uh... no.

The M16 is lightweight...

Massive lulz. The M16 itself is only lightweight compared to heavy military firearms. The M16 was an attempt to bridge the gap between the heavier M1 Garand (and its quickly un-adopted replacement, the M14), and the significantly lighter M1 carbine as a standard infantry rifle.

More importantly, most comparable civilian semi-automatic rifles are lighter than the M16, which ranged up to over 8 pounds unloaded.

...and uses ammunition that is also lightweight so a magazine can have a higher capacity.

Magazine capacity wasn't a significant reason the M16 used a smaller caliber round. The M16 initially used the same 20-round magazine capacity as the larger-caliber M14 before it.

I don't see hunters carrying AR15 with 100 round drums for hunting deer.

That's because AR-15s are not automatic. Nor would you need to shoot more than a few rounds at a deer. Nor would you use 5.56 against a deer, hopefully.

But deer are not even remotely the only game that is hunted, and 5.56 is very commonly used in hunting smaller game.

Its almost like we have a huge thread already dedicated to the SCOTUS planing to do exactly that.

Yes, and...?

I oppose it, just like I said. What SCOTUS is contemplating doing with Roe v Wade is a disgusting tragedy, and a huge step backwards. But that's not what SCOTUS has typically done, and if they do what it's reported that they're likely to do, it will tarnish the legacy of the Supreme Court for a long, long time.

The key difference between the 2nd and 14th amendments is that only one of those amendments actively hurts other people. An M16 is pretty challenging to get due to regulations. Why is an M16 regulated but an AR15 is not?

The 2nd Amendment doesn't actively hurt other people. That's just pure sophistry. A certain tiny percent of people who abuse the right are guilty of hurting other people, just like the proverbial person who yells "Fire!" in a crowded room. People who abuse the right should be duly punished. People who do not abuse the right... should not.

[Slant]

They should speak up, absolutely -- we do need gun control, imo. Just don't be so quick believe that Democrat's are totally genuine and care.

Their job is not to "care", it's to manage society so shit like this doesn't happen.

[Edge-]

They should speak up, absolutely -- we do need gun control, imo. Just don't be so quick believe that Democrat's are totally genuine and care.

I don't think that. I don't think anyone reasonably thinks this is 100% altruistic. But that doesn't detract from the fact that they're the only people out there trying to take this issue seriously and come up with actual prevention methods/solutions.

Whereas the other side is arguing for armed kids in schools to defend themselves.

[PhaelixWW]

Arbitrary distinction.

Fully automatic is an "arbitrary distinction"?

Hah. No.

Some gun nuts are probably itching at a chance to sue the government for restricting their right to fully automatic weapons.

I mean... the NFA has existed since 1934. If it hasn't been successfully brought down yet, I wouldn't be worried at this point.

[Templar 331]

Look, I don't blame them, I'm just not gonna sit here and say that their heart is in the right place and that they're totally genuine. Democratic voters want gun control. Democratic politicians use this tragedy to sway voters and point fingers.

It works. I just don't think they actually care about these kids tho...

I'm willing to bet Democratic politicians aren't apathetic to these situations. It's the fact that as soon they get enough power and try to fix this situation, gun control or anything related to it, the right will go into a battle frenzy and retake power. We saw it with the ACA. Not long after it was passed the Republicans came back into power and almost nothing could get done. Almost a decade of moronic fear mongering about "death camps" and the like afterward to keep the base frenzied. It is sadly political suicide for a party to try and conquer this problem without the backing of a majority of the country. I know that Republicans don't make up a majority, but they're big enough to be a hindrance.

I still remember when I was a kid in the 90's that Republicans were scared to death that the Democrats were coming for their guns.