Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Tentim]

Well, you made the claim that someone with a bunch of bricks can do as much damage as someone with a gun, please show me these Mass Brickers going around killing a bunch of people. Especially kids. Show everyone even one person who has killed more than 10 people with bricks in an extremely short time span or even attempted to.

Gotta watch some buildings collapsing bricks used irresponsibly lead to tragedy.

[Elegiac]

Gotta watch some buildings collapsing bricks used irresponsibly lead to tragedy.

As with the car accident analogy, this doesn't hold water.

When people take issue with firearm deaths it's invariably an issue with intentional violence, not accidents. So the actual comparison isn't between accidental deaths from cars or from bricks and firearm deaths, it's between intentionally using a car or a brick with intent to harm and firearm deaths; and in both cases firearms far outstrip either cars or bricks. It's also ignoring the matter of intended use. Neither cars nor bricks are constructed with lethality as intended use; guns are.

So again, comparing bricks to guns is a stupid fucking argument. Lol.

[Tentim]

As with the car accident analogy, this doesn't hold water.

When people take issue with firearm deaths it's invariably an issue with intentional violence, not accidents. So the actual comparison isn't between accidental deaths from cars or from bricks and firearm deaths, it's between intentionally using a car or a brick with intent to harm and firearm deaths; and in both cases firearms far outstrip either cars or bricks. It's also ignoring the matter of intended use. Neither cars nor bricks are constructed with lethality as intended use; guns are.

So again, comparing bricks to guns is a stupid fucking argument. Lol.

No one is comparing number of deaths.. it was showing how any object can be misused but it flew so far over the first posters head he thought it was something else them the rest quoted him

I would find it amusing if it was intentionally like I first suspected but now I'm dreading your trying to argue this sincerely.

[Dontrike]

Gotta watch some buildings collapsing bricks used irresponsibly lead to tragedy.

A building collapsing is not "using a brick."

[Ivanstone]

Gotta watch some buildings collapsing bricks used irresponsibly lead to tragedy.

This is correct.

The GOP is not on board with reasonable building regulations either. That would be job killing regulations.

If the GOP is removed from power we wouldn't have to worry as much about collapsing bricks. Or guns. Or Covid. Or pollution. Or etcetcetc.

[Breccia]

I'm not making an argument against responsibility

The "criminals don't obey laws" argument that you tried 30 seconds before this post is, in fact, an argument against responsibility.

[Xyonai]

Gotta watch some buildings collapsing bricks used irresponsibly lead to tragedy.

There's no way you're being serious about this discussion right now lmao.

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Also sidenote: Fuckin' typical that as soon as the other guy gets banned, another dude just happens to show up making some of the same dumb-shit arguments. Too busy to back up your homie when he was sayin' dumb shit before or do ya'll have a tag-teams system set up?

[Canpinter]

If bricks are so dangerous wouldn't we be saving alot of money by arming our military with them?

[Shadowferal]

Sounds familiar, like bringing stones to a gunfight, except bricks are brought instead.

[Breccia]

If bricks are so dangerous wouldn't we be saving alot of money by arming our military with them?

Don't get me started. I live in New York State, there's a 14-day waiting period on bricks, and civilians aren't allowed to own cinder blocks.

Non-sarcastic and on-topic: we have seen a variety of reports coming in about the shooter's obvious and public troubled nature. I've called out Texas' antipathy towards red flag laws. Well, they should be shamed for such.

Private individuals were the only people who knew of the many warning signs he displayed, as he had no criminal history prior to the shooting. The alleged shooter's apparent motive was a "desire for notoriety and fame," according to the report.

Those interviewed by the committee, including family, friends and acquaintances, reported many warning signs that experts say should have raised red flags.

"He exhibited almost every warning sign," John Cohen, an ABC News contributor and the former acting undersecretary for intelligence and counterterrorism coordinator at the Department of Homeland Security, said in an interview. "This guy should have been on everybody's radar."

School officials had identified the accused shooter as "at-risk" academically by the third grade due to consistently poor test results. However, he did not receive any education services, according to the report.

The shooting itself took place in the accused shooter's former classroom.

That was news to me.

The suspect had discussed bad memories of fourth grade with an acquaintance just weeks before, according to the report.

The suspect's fourth grade teacher told the committee she was aware he needed special help and that he claimed to be a victim of bullying. She met with his mother over these concerns and said she believed he ultimately had a good year and that the classroom was a safe space where he made friends, according to the report.

The suspect's family, however, disputed this account saying that classmates bullied him over his stutter, clothing and short haircut. Some family members also said that some of the teachers picked on the suspect and his cousin, according to the report. Notes found on the alleged shooter's phone indicated that he was bullied beginning in middle school.

Beginning in 2018, the alleged shooter had bad school attendance, with more than 100 absences annually. He also had failing grades and increasingly dismal performance on standardized and end-of-course exams, according to the report.

The committee found that the local court does not regularly enforce truancy rules and it is unclear if any school resource officers ever visited the alleged shooter's home.

His former girlfriend described the alleged shooter as lonely and depressed and said he was constantly teased by friends who called him a “school shooter,” according to the report. He was also called a "school shooter" online due to his comments.

She said he told her repeatedly that he wouldn’t live past 18, either because he would commit suicide or simply because he “wouldn’t live long.” The alleged shooter also responded to their breakup last year by harassing the girl and her friends, according to the report.

The alleged shooter's activity online was also concerning as he began to watch violent and gruesome videos and images of things like suicides, beheadings and accidents.

Those with whom he played video games reported that he became enraged when he lost. He allegedly made over-the-top threats, especially towards female players, whom he would terrorize with graphic descriptions of violence and rape.

And just in case that's not enough:

Later internet usage suggests he may have wondered if he was a sociopath and sought out information on the condition. His internet research resulted in him receiving an email, which was not disclosed from where in the report, about obtaining psychological treatment for sociopathy.

I'll keep saying this, anyone (except the shooter) coming forward earlier would have meant nothing. Texas hates red flag laws. There was nobody to bring their valid concerns to. They could have said everything on live TV and the shooter would still have gotten his brick and...oh, silly me, he didn't go on a mass bricking spree, he went on a mass shooting spree with a weapon of war.

This thread is why there should be restrictions on these weapons. And instead of bringing up examples of "a good guy with a gun" saving lives, instead, we get disingenuine posters clutching their pearls about masonry. Because they know full well they don't have an argument.

[Skulltaker]

I would find it amusing if it was intentionally like I first suspected but now I'm dreading your trying to argue this sincerely.

*you're. I think you might be out of your depth discussing guns. Stick to bricks.

[Shadowferal]

Hmm...Armed civilian neutralized Indiana mall shooter in just 15 seconds, authorities say

I dare say the Uvalde police could use him.

[Breccia]

Hmm...Armed civilian neutralized Indiana mall shooter in just 15 seconds, authorities say

I dare say the Uvalde police could use him.

I'm sure people will want to use this as "ONLY A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN" fuel...they should read the entire article.

An armed civilian stopping a gunman is very uncommon, according to data from the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center cited by The Associated Press. From 2000 to 2021, less than 3% of instances where someone attacked multiple people ended with a civilian firing at them, the AP said. Much more common were police shooting the perpetrator, police or bystanders subduing them in another manner, or the attacker leaving the scene.

Am I glad the shooter was stopped? Yes. Also, dude shot the murderer 8 times with what I assume was a pistol, holy crap that guy's a great shot. But it's still part of the 3%. In other words, people saying "just give more good guys more guns" are saying "look, when playing D&D, just always roll a 20".

[Adam Jensen]

This is just fuckin' stupid. Everyone involved in this decisions need to be slapped for being so fuckin' stupid.

It's shit like this that makes me wish stupidity was physically painful.

[Edge-]

i mean this is still so grim

Student calls to 911:
12:03—whispered she's in room 112
12:10—said multiple dead
12:13—called again
12:16—says 8-9 students alive
12:19—student calls from room 111
12:21—3 shots heard on call
12:36—another call
12:43—asks for police
12:47—asks for police

imagine knowing there are kids alive for 40 minutes and doin nothing.

Haven't read the full report, have they figured out how on earth none of this information made its way to law enforcement? Or where it stopped after making its way to law enforcement? Wild that they were getting calls for almost an hour while cops thought the shooter was barricaded by himself in a room or some dumb shit.

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https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/20/u...ted/index.html

The Uvalde, Texas, schools superintendent has recommended the firing of Pete Arredondo, the school police chief who oversaw the response to May's mass shooting at Robb Elementary School, according to a Board of Education meeting agenda.

The board announced Wednesday it will hold a special meeting Saturday at 10 a.m. for "discussion and possible action regarding termination for good cause as recommended by the Superintendent," the agenda says.

The meeting announcement came a day after district officials informed Arredondo that the school board intends to meet Saturday to decide his fate, according to a source close to the discussions. The source told CNN the board is expected to vote to terminate Arredondo, who was placed on administrative leave last month.

So we'll find out if Arredondo gets to keep his job after letting 19 kids and 2 adults be murdered while cops waited for over and hour under his leadership, which as a reminder he didn't know he was in charge and didn't want to be in charge. Which, if he doesn't want to do his job when it's hard...why pay him at all?

[gondrin]

If bricks are so dangerous wouldn't we be saving alot of money by arming our military with them?

This honestly sounds like the plot of a South Park episode.

[bladeXcrasher]

Haven't read the full report, have they figured out how on earth none of this information made its way to law enforcement? Or where it stopped after making its way to law enforcement? Wild that they were getting calls for almost an hour while cops thought the shooter was barricaded by himself in a room or some dumb shit.

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https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/20/u...ted/index.html



So we'll find out if Arredondo gets to keep his job after letting 19 kids and 2 adults be murdered while cops waited for over and hour under his leadership, which as a reminder he didn't know he was in charge and didn't want to be in charge. Which, if he doesn't want to do his job when it's hard...why pay him at all?

SCotUS already determined police aren't required to help people, I don't know why everyone's so surprised.

[Logwyn]

SCotUS already determined police aren't required to help people, I don't know why everyone's so surprised.

Not like the SCotUS is wrong and often. Also, I wonder why people are surprised that people do not trust the police to help them or to be more than thugs themselves.

[Tentim]

The "criminals don't obey laws" argument that you tried 30 seconds before this post is, in fact, an argument against responsibility.

Would be interested in your mind set for that. Are you arguing the state should be responsible? If so how far do you personally take it. If its needless deaths should they not regulate a person's diet?

It's not really something I'm comfortable with bequeathing it to the government.

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I'm sure people will want to use this as "ONLY A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN" fuel...they should read the entire article.



Am I glad the shooter was stopped? Yes. Also, dude shot the murderer 8 times with what I assume was a pistol, holy crap that guy's a great shot. But it's still part of the 3%. In other words, people saying "just give more good guys more guns" are saying "look, when playing D&D, just always roll a 20".

You shouldn't need a gun. Trust the uvalde police to protect you.

[Endus]

Would be interested in your mind set for that. Are you arguing the state should be responsible?

Perhaps you should clarify what you meant by an "argument against responsibility"?

I took it to mean that you weren't arguing that gun owners shouldn't handle their weapons responsibly, given the suite of harmful uses I pointed out that will, naturally, occur with any level of home-ownership.

If you're talking about "criminals not obeying laws", though, and thus dismissing the need for said laws at all, you are making an argument against the concept of responsible gun ownership; you're implicitly arguing that criminals should have the right to buy and carry weaponry. Because how responsible their use would be should not be factored in.

Shifting to a completely different meaning for "responsibility" is just confusing for no good reason.

If so how far do you personally take it. If its needless deaths should they not regulate a person's diet?

Obesity isn't a valid comparison, because the only threat obesity poses is to the individual who's obese, and even then it's often not particularly significant (drinking alcohol occasionally or using caffeine regularly would pose comparable risks, by example).

Firearms are primarily a risk towards other people, and their primary function is to inflict said harm on said other people.

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You shouldn't need a gun. Trust the uvalde police to protect you.

I A> don't have a gun, and B> don't need a gun, because C> my society doesn't allow crazy levels of unrestricted gun ownership and social collapse that ensure there's both a high violent crime rate and that potential criminals have ready access to weaponry.

The Uvalde police and the school shooting there are a symptom of the exact same problems. The shooter was able to arm themselves so impressively hundreds of officers felt they could not confront him. And they did so just by . . . going out to a retail store and buying those weapons off the rack. My country doesn't have those problems. Because it has gun control legislation and no concept of anything like the 2nd Amendment. The weekly rate of school shootings in the USA is the result of the USA's 2nd Amendment and loose gun control laws.