Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Breccia]

They were hearing gunshots and the screams of children being murdered.

I watched the shorter, edited video. To me, at least, it looks like the police arrive, move directly towards the gunfire, surround the classrooms, and hold fast. At that point, the shooter has spent 3 minutes and 100 rounds in that area.

I am not yet ready to condemn them for that.

If that's not what happened, let me know what I missed.

[tehdang]

Not much at all, no. I'm just basically holding out hope they were all told "stand fast, that's an order" which, again, early on we'd heard they were. It's the difference between "the leadership failed them" and "everyone failed at once". And it might be wishful thinking, but I'd like the first to be the result.

If it's an option. Sometimes there's only one deep frier, and the fried go in with the shrimp.

The investigation has been slow and poorly done thus far. I do expect to find some person in charge giving out orders and/or making threats if they were disobeyed. The officers aren't entirely cleared by doing this, since they ought to disobey orders in this situation after ascertaining what was happening.

https://twitter.com/LeighWaldman/sta...95914702831618
Mayor says the families got their stuff from the victims memorial, instead of the memorial having been taken down by them.

Two moms respond that they were told they had to take away the crosses.

[cubby]

Just so we're clear, the only reason I'm not immediately siding with you, @Endus and a lot of others, is because when there's a lack of information I consider that a failure at the top first and foremost. If a restaurant fails, I don't typically blame the waiters.

It really doesn't look good for anyone involved, but I'm offering the people who were on the front line all possible credit for now. We are still missing information, I'm sure, and we have seen reports earlier on of the police on the scene wanting to go in and being told to wait. For now, I'm not ready to condemn them.

Their leadership is a tragedy and should be fired.

I read that loud and clear from you - no worries. And I definitely agree with that perspective; more information is definitely needed to make a solid evaluation and determine a course of action and/or judgement of other's actions. I actually got into some trouble in years-ago threads about police actions and murdering blacks. I was the cautious voice - still am in most cases. Not sure why this one boils my blood every time I even consider thinking about it.

[PACOX]

If we had botched a hostage rescue in a warzone heads would have rolled. Even sitting at a desk miles away would have faced some sort of punishment.

And here we are where people with no (except a marginally political) say in the manner are obstructing the release of facts or doing mental gymnastics to excuse what is inexcusable.

I do believe there were a handful officers inside who were an inch away from saying fuck and running in. I'll acknowledge the social/operational pressure that might have stopped them from doing it. Those officers will be haunted forever by what-ifs and hatred for the ones who actively stopped anyone from pushing forward. Every bullet that range out is soul wrenching torture. Most of them probably passed on the responsibility to the next man. Its sickening to just read the article that really just confirms what we knew, I'm not clicking the video. There something, many things, truly fucked up with this entire culture where shit like this can happen and then people can turn around and argue down stricter gun regulation, police reform, divorcing ourselves from tacticool bullshit and actually training/preparing for real life situations. The only thing people in power should be saying is, "what can we do to be better" not the mounds of bullshit we've heard from the peanut gallery.

[cubby]

Police officers have extensive training. Immediately after this happened, I linked to Uvalde police training for mass shooter situations, training that had been done just a few months prior to the shooting. And that training was clear that the first duty for officers was to engage the shooter. Even if other officers get shot, engage the shooter. If they're afraid they might get shot? That training said they should find some other job because they weren't fit to be a police officer.

Great find and timeline stamp as well.

More reasons to almost literally string them up now. I'll be curious is this would be enough for the State AG to press criminal negligence charges. They'd have to go to fucking Argentina to find a jury though.

[Breccia]

The investigation has been slow and poorly done thus far.

I mean...I find it hard to debate that. That body cam footage should have been turned over within hours.

I'm staying clear of things like "they should have disobeyed orders" until we know what those orders were. But, based on what we've heard, the orders were "hold fast" and in that case, yeah, the non-asterisk part of the training should have taken over.

[cubby]

Those cowardly motherfuckers.

- - - Updated - - -

The investigation has been slow and poorly done thus far. I do expect to find some person in charge giving out orders and/or making threats if they were disobeyed. The officers aren't entirely cleared by doing this, since they ought to disobey orders in this situation after ascertaining what was happening.

https://twitter.com/LeighWaldman/sta...95914702831618
Mayor says the families got their stuff from the victims memorial, instead of the memorial having been taken down by them.

Two moms respond that they were told they had to take away the crosses.

It's even worse. They were literally trained 2 months prior to the mass shooting, to go after the shooter, no matter what. Literally the first priority.

I'm just amplifying what you're saying already, or expanding. Not disagreeing - just to be clear.

- - - Updated - - -

I watched the shorter, edited video. To me, at least, it looks like the police arrive, move directly towards the gunfire, surround the classrooms, and hold fast. At that point, the shooter has spent 3 minutes and 100 rounds in that area.

I am not yet ready to condemn them for that.

If that's not what happened, let me know what I missed.

And I want to make sure I have the end correct. It was a Border Security Guard and his buddies who basically stormed the school, off duty, and took out the shooter. Do I have those basic facts correct?

[Amnaught]

"What would Punisher do?"

[Breccia]

And I want to make sure I have the end correct. It was a Border Security Guard and his buddies who basically stormed the school, off duty, and took out the shooter. Do I have those basic facts correct?

That's what I've read for a while now. I'll be honest, that video, at the end, there's a lot of uniforms and I don't know who is who.

[Endus]

"What would Punisher do?"

The dumbest fuckin' thing. The Punisher canonically hates cops that celebrate him.

https://i.imgur.com/8MxVRVN.png

Not embedding but it's pretty big. Basically he saw some cops with his logo on their car and they wanted his picture to brag to their "group", and Frank ripped their decal up and basically said if they try and do what he does, he'll hunt them down and fuckin' kill them.

Cops using the Punisher logo are pigs that the Punisher would murder in cold blood, if he existed. And they're too fuckin' stupid to understand that.

[Tentim]

The dumbest fuckin' thing. The Punisher canonically hates cops that celebrate him.

https://i.imgur.com/8MxVRVN.png

Not embedding but it's pretty big. Basically he saw some cops with his logo on their car and they wanted his picture to brag to their "group", and Frank ripped their decal up and basically said if they try and do what he does, he'll hunt them down and fuckin' kill them.

Cops using the Punisher logo are pigs that the Punisher would murder in cold blood, if he existed. And they're too fuckin' stupid to understand that.

No one cares about new comics though since they got co opted. Now they are weird parodies of themselves like a batman that ignores crime.

Odds are they just think the symbol looks cool.

[Endus]

No one cares about new comics though since they got co opted.

The comics haven't been "co-opted" by anyone.

It's crooked police who've done the co-opting, here.

Marvel's literally always been woke as fuck, dude.



That's Stan Lee, posted directly in his comics, waaay back in 1968.

Now they are weird parodies of themselves like a batman that ignores crime.

You realize Batman's not even Marvel, right?

[Tentim]

The comics haven't been "co-opted" by anyone.

It's crooked police who've done the co-opting, here.

Marvel's literally always been woke as fuck, dude.



That's Stan Lee, posted directly in his comics, waaay back in 1968.



You realize Batman's not even Marvel, right?

I wouldn't know like most people I dont read comics. Just pointing out people pick the symbol because it looks cool. I do the same thing with some webcomics.

Still the cops make a strong case for private security firms existing sadly.

[Elegiac]

No one cares about new comics though since they got co opted

"SJWs ruined my comics" continues to be a shitty and ignorant take that just reveals the speaker to have a really poor understanding of the material they claim to like.

In this case; Frank Castle has always been a commentary about the nature of crime and punishment being a self-perpetuating cycle of violence since his inception - his brand of 'justice' ultimately proves no more effective than more traditional heroes in making anyone safer because it just ends up creating more bad guys.

It's particularly inappropriate for law enforcement to identify with the Punisher, as Endus said, because it's representative of a desire for simplistic vigilantism unburdened by moral, ethical, or legal considerations. In short: "law enforcement would be so much easier if it weren't for all these pesky laws."

But you know what? Let's not overthink this. Sure, let's have police just slap skulls everywhere because they think the symbol looks cool. Great! Perfect!



- - - Updated - - -

Still the cops make a strong case for private security firms existing sadly.

Police feeling they can act brutally with impunity because they aren't fettered by accountability to the public they ostensibly serve and protect is in no way "a strong case" for private security firms that are even less accountable to the public.

It's trash take Tuesday, apparently.

[Breccia]

As expected, Texas officials are reacting to the release of the video.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin and a Texas legislative committee investigating the attack have called for the surveillance footage to be made public.

McLaughlin, speaking during an Uvalde City Council meeting on Tuesday, called it "wrong" and "chicken" for the newspaper to have released the video.

The committee has said that Uvalde District Attorney Christina Mitchell Busbee objected to the release. Busbee and Abbott could not be reached for comment by Reuters on Tuesday.

Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw saidon Twitter that he was "deeply disappointed" by the newspaper's decision to publish the video. McCraw said family members of the slain and wounded should have seen it first.

I don't know how the Statesman got it offhand, but it doesn't really surprise me they released it while they had an exclusive copy. At best they had until Sunday to make up their mind. And they're not apologizing for their choice.

The Statesman and its TV partner KVUE decided not to wait. The paper stated its reasons for publishing. And the TV station did the same when it interrupted afternoon programming -- in this case, ABC's coverage of the Jan. 6 hearing -- to show carefully selected clips from the video.

"We're doing this for these people," anchor Bryan Mays said while showing the faces of the dead, "for their families in Uvalde, for the people of the city, and really the people of the state of Texas who have been desperate to learn what happened inside that school back in May."

The anchors warned viewers in advance that they would see video of the gunman; hear audio of gunfire; and see police officers waiting and waiting in the hallway outside the classrooms. Importantly, the audio of children screaming was edited out. And the video was not graphic per se. But it was gut-wrenching to watch.

"This is not a decision that we have taken lightly," reporter Tony Plohetski, who has been out in front on this story, told viewers. "We have carefully considered what we are doing here." Plohetski said he knew some would disagree, but noted that family members and government officials have called for transparency.

"We found ourselves in a position -- once we obtained this video -- that we similarly did not feel it was in our interest to withhold it from the public," he said.

This cannot have been an easy decision to make. But so many people have been asking to see it, that I can at least understand why a media business would do it. People are saying the families should have seen it first, and I get that...but we are talking about a worldwide headline here. Everyone knew about the average American walking into a school with a weapon of war, and wants to know how he did it.

[Tentim]

"SJWs ruined my comics" continues to be a shitty and ignorant take that just reveals the speaker to have a really poor understanding of the material they claim to like.

In this case; Frank Castle has always been a commentary about the nature of crime and punishment being a self-perpetuating cycle of violence since his inception - his brand of 'justice' ultimately proves no more effective than more traditional heroes in making anyone safer because it just ends up creating more bad guys.

It's particularly inappropriate for law enforcement to identify with the Punisher, as Endus said, because it's representative of a desire for simplistic vigilantism unburdened by moral, ethical, or legal considerations. In short: "law enforcement would be so much easier if it weren't for all these pesky laws."

But you know what? Let's not overthink this. Sure, let's have police just slap skulls everywhere because they think the symbol looks cool. Great! Perfect!



- - - Updated - - -



Police feeling they can act brutally with impunity because they aren't fettered by accountability to the public they ostensibly serve and protect is in no way "a strong case" for private security firms that are even less accountable to the public.

It's trash take Tuesday, apparently.

It's more a take what you can get. I don't believe the American system is capable of self correction at this point. People will just ignore it as police become more and more gang like.

[Edge-]

No one cares about new comics though since they got co opted.

I wouldn't know like most people I dont read comics.

How on earth would you know this if you don't read comics, and presumably don't have much of an interest in them in general?

Just pointing out people pick the symbol because it looks cool. I do the same thing with some webcomics.

The Punisher symbol is fairly distinct and very well known, and there have even been three officially licensed feature films starring the character, plus a hit show on Netflix.

People know who The Punisher is, dude. This pretending to play ignorant.

Still the cops make a strong case for private security firms existing sadly.

This is such a monumentally bad idea on every possible level and hello we have people continuing to argue for America going down the path of ceasing to be a sovereign nation. Jesus wept.

[PrimiOne]

I wouldn't know like most people I dont read comics

Oh I see, but that does not stop you from talking about it, right? Yeah ,m8 don't let a complete ignorance about the discussed issue stop you from making a contribution...it's the sign of the times.

Just pointing out people pick the symbol because it looks cool. I do the same thing with some webcomics.

Oh is it? Then I hope you don't find cool two sig runes put together ( if the underlying meaning is useless).

No one cares about new comics though since they got co opted

Ahhh right...the pervasive woke infestation of the "new comics"...right. Let's forget about them, let's go the root, to the fucking origin of the character and his creator Gerry Conway.

The Creator Of ‘The Punisher’ Wants To Reclaim The Iconic Skull From Police And Fringe Admirers

The Punisher is representative of the failure of law and order to address the concerns of people who feel abandoned by the legal system. It always struck me as stupid and ironic that members of the police are embracing what is fundamentally an outlaw symbol.

But wait...this is the creator of the character. It happened 40 years ago. Those pesky woke new writters and his time traveling machine always changing the past. sigh...there's no respect anymore for the "original sources".


Police using the skull as some kind of "I'm a badass" statement can only be compared to a catholic priest using a pedobear pin. As stupid as one can conceive.

[Tentim]

How on earth would you know this if you don't read comics, and presumably don't have much of an interest in them in general?



The Punisher symbol is fairly distinct and very well known, and there have even been three officially licensed feature films starring the character, plus a hit show on Netflix.

People know who The Punisher is, dude. This pretending to play ignorant.



This is such a monumentally bad idea on every possible level and hello we have people continuing to argue for America going down the path of ceasing to be a sovereign nation. Jesus wept.

The idea behind private firms has some appeal though. Currently there is no accountability for failing to act or even failure. You could see private firms be held accountable while the local police force isn't.

[Gabriel]

The idea behind private firms has some appeal though. Currently there is no accountability for failing to act or even failure. You could see private firms be held accountable while the local police force isn't.

One of the dumbest posts I've seen all thread.