1. #2101
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Ooh sorry, I didn't realise you just wanted to argue against a strawman with motivations you invented yourself. I'll leave you to it.
    Your denial has become sufficiently pathetic that I think this is your best move. Take care.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  2. #2102
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It's always fun to see poor people's disdain towards rich people's money spending habits.
    It's always fun to see invested people's futile attempts to defend abhorrent practices.

  3. #2103
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I agree, it's sad. That people are willingly relinquish their freedoms, even when there's no need to, like during an emergency.


    I cannot take seriously anyone who tries to build an argument around "think of the children".
    Only bad people think about someone else's children.

    I'm also quite sure there's an age restriction in Casinos.
    You are just one giant breathing arsehole aren't you? How does one get to such a point where they entirely lack empathy or responsibility toward others? Not even that is enough, you don't just lack empathy, but actively demonize it.

    Astounding selfishness.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-06-13 at 04:46 PM.

  4. #2104
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Astounding selfishness.
    Is when you presume to know what's best for other people, just to stroke your high horse's ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    It's always fun to see invested people's futile attempts to defend abhorrent practices.
    I agree. There's plenty of those in this very thread!
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  5. #2105
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Is when you presume to know what's best for other people, just to stroke your high horse's ego.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I agree. There's plenty of those in this very thread!
    I mean, I was speaking rhetorically.

    You don't have emotional intelligence necessary to discuss empathy.

    You are the product of a society you actively want to see destroy itself. A great many people need protecting from themselves and others, that is why society exists. Without it, people would act entirely on selfish whims like you desire, to hell with everyone else.

  6. #2106
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    The real money is in making and keeping happy the customers who are willing to drop $10 a month, 99 cents at a time. Potentially millions of those if they can get it right (it isn't now) versus a few thousand whales. Yeah, the whales get all the attention but there's more strength in numbers. It would be stupid and bad business to laugh and say "Hey, we've got whales, fuck everyone else." They will eventually start looking at how to solidify the customer base that spends but would never be considered whales as such.
    It's true there is strength in numbers but a company doesn't care where it gets its money from as long as it gets its money and its alot easier to keep a smaller group of people happy over a larger one. And someone who spent 500$ in a month is more likely to stay in a game more than a person who spent 10$ since they invested so much into the game. Literally no mobile/f2p game goes for small spenders over big spenders which is why they all have a million different things you can buy and have big cash packs as well. Those 99 cent packs are just to entice people into spending and investing and turning them into whales. Gacha odds would be different as well if they wanted a million small spenders. A 10$ lootbox with 50/50 odds would get a hell of a lot more people purchasing compared to actual lootboxes which can end up costing you thousands.

    I wish we lived in a world where they cared more about having a million happy customers over a few big spenders but the fact of the matter is 10,000 whales spending 100$ a month is going to make them just as much as 1,000,000 players spending a dollar a month.

  7. #2107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    I mean, I was speaking rhetorically.

    You don't have emotional intelligence necessary to discuss empathy.

    You are the product of a society you actively want to see destroy itself. A great many people need protecting from themselves and others, that is why society exists. Without it, people would act entirely on selfish whims like you desire, to hell with everyone else.
    I'm not following all this discussion so I could be way off here, but I caught one of his comments where he says: "only bad people care about other people's children". Yeah, when you get to that point, there is something seriously wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's true there is strength in numbers but a company doesn't care where it gets its money from as long as it gets its money and its alot easier to keep a smaller group of people happy over a larger one. And someone who spent 500$ in a month is more likely to stay in a game more than a person who spent 10$ since they invested so much into the game. Literally no mobile/f2p game goes for small spenders over big spenders which is why they all have a million different things you can buy and have big cash packs as well. Those 99 cent packs are just to entice people into spending and investing and turning them into whales. Gacha odds would be different as well if they wanted a million small spenders. A 10$ lootbox with 50/50 odds would get a hell of a lot more people purchasing compared to actual lootboxes which can end up costing you thousands.

    I wish we lived in a world where they cared more about having a million happy customers over a few big spenders but the fact of the matter is 10,000 whales spending 100$ a month is going to make them just as much as 1,000,000 players spending a dollar a month.
    I think you're right, which is why I think I'm going to be focusing on Indie games from now on. Triple A and mobile land feels like a dead battle at this point

  8. #2108
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I agree. There's plenty of those in this very thread!
    Considering you have probably over 100 posts in this topic alone... everyone can make their own conclusion.

  9. #2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Considering you have probably over 100 posts in this topic alone... everyone can make their own conclusion.
    It's easy to make conclusions, hard to make the right ones.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  10. #2110
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's true there is strength in numbers but a company doesn't care where it gets its money from as long as it gets its money and its alot easier to keep a smaller group of people happy over a larger one. And someone who spent 500$ in a month is more likely to stay in a game more than a person who spent 10$ since they invested so much into the game. Literally no mobile/f2p game goes for small spenders over big spenders which is why they all have a million different things you can buy and have big cash packs as well. Those 99 cent packs are just to entice people into spending and investing and turning them into whales. Gacha odds would be different as well if they wanted a million small spenders. A 10$ lootbox with 50/50 odds would get a hell of a lot more people purchasing compared to actual lootboxes which can end up costing you thousands.

    I wish we lived in a world where they cared more about having a million happy customers over a few big spenders but the fact of the matter is 10,000 whales spending 100$ a month is going to make them just as much as 1,000,000 players spending a dollar a month.
    Revenue isn't a zero-sum pie where adding in one sector subtracts from another. They very much care where the money comes from because that sort of analysis helps them to improve their prospects. There's all kinds of stuff they can do to get people that no one would call a whale to spend a bit more. More packages at $.99 cents. Daily sales. Improve cheap packages. There is an entire staff that's dedicated to thinking stuff like this up. Their job is to expand revenue and given how stingy the game is at the low end (relatively...I play a few mobile games and the low end of the store is remarkable for how plain it is) there shouldn't be any issues at all in expanding that part of the market.

    You don't even need to speculate on turning low-end spenders into whales. Most players don't have the wherewithal to be that and will be able to resist the temptation to stop buying food to feed the game. There are psychological tricks to get you to spend. That's a fact. It's offensive to assume that the only people able to resist them are the crowd here raging about the game.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  11. #2111
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It's easy to make conclusions, hard to make the right ones.
    But all of your conclusions are right, naturally. Despite your lack of interest in actually playing the game or learning it's deeper systems.

    And people who seek confirmation from sources that are more knowledgeable in the field, say people who have played in the alpha and beta for hundreds or even thousands of hours, and base their livelihood on making content around blizzard games and sometimes specifically Diablo, are often wrong. Because those people are clearly just haters. (Not that it even takes confirmation to come to the conclusion that selling stats in a video game for six figures is ludicrous)

    Seems legit.
    (This signature was clearly too awesome for the Avatar & Signature Guidelines and was removed to prevent further facemelting)

  12. #2112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's offensive to assume that the only people able to resist them are the crowd here raging about the game.
    It's interesting to figure out why they rage:

    1. Person who can spend but chooses not to
    2. Person who cannot spend and doesn't want to
    3. Person who can spend and does
    4. Person who wants to spend but doesn't have any disposable money
    5. Person who wants the 5-star gems in all slots, cannot pay and doesn't want to grind
    6. Person who plays Diablo exclusively for PvP but cannot spend


    1,2,3 - would not rage
    6 - do not exist.

    That leaves 4 (unfair rage) and 5 (OCD rage).

    There's also #7: People who want to rage simply to rage against Blizzard because they've made mobile diablo game and it's trendy to rage about MTX just like their favorite streamer who dropped thousands already and didn't win.

    RAGERS!
    Sort yourself out, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerot View Post
    But all of your conclusions are right, naturally. Despite your lack of interest in actually playing the game or learning it's deeper systems.
    I have stated no conclusions. You do right there.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  13. #2113
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It's always fun to see poor people's disdain towards rich people's money spending habits.
    Tell me you're a disgusting human being without actually telling me you're a disgusting human being...

    "HAHA, THEZe GuyZ R PoORz, FuCk ThEm, LuLz"
    "That shit went down faster than a gold digger on a dying rich dude".

  14. #2114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmoden View Post
    Tell me you're a disgusting human being without actually telling me you're a disgusting human being...
    I'm actually a Cardassian.
    But anywho, poor people shouldn't concern themselves with MTX, especially in a f2p game.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  15. #2115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Oh my goodness you are hilarious! I can't believe after searching my post history you thought it was relevant to compare a designer's insight on a product he worked on to click bait streamers who's business model requires latching on to controversies. Good work!
    And I linked a video with insight on pay to win and predatory monetization. Huh... funny how that works... There's tons of videos on D:I from actual game company managers explaining how to fully monetize a game. How to use psychology to make people feel guilty for not paying. To get them hooked. Etc.

    And you still haven't denied anything in the video. ROFLMAO.

    In before some kind of lame excuse as to why you won't/can't/don't want to.


    Besides, you're the one who responded to me. If you can't deliver, get off the soap box and let someone else have a turn at attempting to knock me down a peg. Because god knows everyone fails. You most spectacularly. Unless you know, you manage to find a falsehood in the video I linked. Then by all means, knock me down a peg.

    But we know you won't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    boost or wreck the score using relatively small numbers is ridiculous.
    In case you haven't been paying attention, D:I's so bad, that players are beginning to jump ship for future games. They have zero faith that D4 will be a "normal" diablo game. They're fully expecting OW2 to have predatory loot boxes even if it isn't pay to win.

    Yes, we get it, beneath all of the pay to win korean mobile game garbage, predatory monetization, and awful business practices is the skeleton of a Diablo game that's halfway decent.

    But D:I deserves its score of 0.2/10 for being one of the most disgustingly monetized games outside of China. This is the kind of thing I expect from Chinese and Korean mobile games. Not the Diablo franchise with a PC port.

    Blizzard's shitting on each and everyone single one of you who's paying money for this garbage, and they're laughing at you all the way to the bank.

    And in between all of the semantic arguments that the Diablo Stans are trying to make about Metacritic and what not, not a single one of them has said that it's a good game, and not a single one of them have denied the predatory monetization practices.


    Instead, they just identify someone posting a video that proves all of this is exactly what we said months ago, and go "HUR DUR YOU GET YOUR OPINIONS FROM YOUTUBE LEL" and don't actually add anything to the conversation. They're worthless. Their posts are worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    There are psychological tricks to get you to spend. That's a fact. It's offensive to assume that the only people able to resist them are the crowd here raging about the game.
    Pretty much. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that there are still people out there who don't think they can be psychologically manipulated and that "They're in control" when they really aren't in control. Case in point: Everyone spending money on this game.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  16. #2116
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    But D:I deserves its score of 0.2/10 for being one of the most disgustingly monetized games outside of China. This is the kind of thing I expect from Chinese and Korean mobile games. Not the Diablo franchise with a PC port.
    Sounds like you haven't played a lot of mobile games outside of China.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    And in between all of the semantic arguments that the Diablo Stans are trying to make about Metacritic and what not, not a single one of them has said that it's a good game, and not a single one of them have denied the predatory monetization practices.
    Diablo Immortals is a good game for a mobile and there are no predatory monetization. You literally can play it for free.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  17. #2117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Considering you have probably over 100 posts in this topic alone... everyone can make their own conclusion.
    Dude's a huge contrarian in most threads he posts in and has at times admitted their confrontational posting is just a caricature.

    Man, what do they call people who post non-genuine opinions purely for the purpose of getting people to respond in agitated or other heated manners? Gee... It's on the tip of my tongue...

    But it's not bannable, because as far as the modship is concerned, it all "looks" legitimate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Diablo Immortals is a good game for a mobile and there are no predatory monetization.
    Had a good guffaw at that. But we all know you're full of shit.

    Here, I'll even give you a bite since it's a slow day for me.

    Predatory monetization does not rely upon people having to spend money. It's a series of mechanics and psychological tricks to get people to spend money when they otherwise wouldn't, or spend more money than they normally would. If you're actually interested there's literally hundreds of videos on the psychology of this. There's transcripts of board meetings of these massive corporations laying out tips and strategies for how to make people feel guilty about not spending money. But I'm gonna take a guess and say that you're just gonna go "LoL pOoR pEoPlE dOn'T dEsErVe GoOd ThInGs" because you're a bad faith poster who just wants to throw that bait out there.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  18. #2118
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Had a good guffaw at that. But we all know you're full of shit.
    We all are after we eat. So - so are you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Predatory monetization does not rely upon people having to spend money. It's a series of mechanics and psychological tricks to get people to spend money when they otherwise wouldn't, or spend more money than they normally would.
    You mean when a cashier girl asks me "Do you want fries with that?" - it's predatory monetization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    If you're actually interested there's literally hundreds of videos on the psychology of this.
    Psychology is not exactly science.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    There's transcripts of board meetings of these massive corporations laying out tips and strategies for how to make people feel guilty about not spending money.
    You should feel guilty for playing for free. Nothing wrong with making you feel that. Just like you should feel guilty exploiting free-samples at the mall.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  19. #2119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Sounds like you haven't played a lot of mobile games outside of China.
    China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, I've played plenty of gacha. Tons of them even. Enough to say that many are far more egregiously pay to win than others. Enough to say that some are far more predatory than others.

    Gacha game 1: You log in, you play, you do your daily shit, you faff around, you use up your energy, log out until that evening, do some more shit in the evening, log off and go to bed. If you want there's an optional store but you have to go out of your way to get into it and it's largely cosmetics.

    Gacha game 2: HEY DID YOU KNOW WE HAVE THIS GREAT $800 VALUE SALE GOING ON RIGHT NOW? RIGHT NOW! DON'T MISS OUT. IF YOU DON'T BUY YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET IT AGAIN. OH DID YOU JUST CLEAR A DUNGEON? HOW ABOUT A %570 VALUE PACK? SURELY YOU WANT TO BUY THAT DON'T YOU? OH YEAH HERE'S THE BUTTON TO OUR STORE IN CASE YOU FORGOT WHERE IT WAS. OH YOU WANT THAT COOL LOOKING ITEM? CONGRATS IT'S IN THE STORE! IT'S NORMALLY $800 BUT JUST FOR YOU IT'S 90% OFF WHAT A STEAL, BUT ONLY FOR THE NEXT 40 MINUTES, BETTER HURRY!



    There are mobile games that funnel you into spending money every chance they get, and there are mobile games that just let you play the game. If you've played more than 2 or 3 mobile games you probably know this, so why am I lecturing you on it? Because apparently you seem to think all mobile games are made equally, and that none are more predatory than others, when that is hilariously false.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  20. #2120
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Gacha game 1: You log in, you play, you do your daily shit, you faff around, you use up your energy, log out until that evening, do some more shit in the evening, log off and go to bed. If you want there's an optional store but you have to go out of your way to get into it and it's largely cosmetics.
    Ooh, interesting is it a big name? Let's see how it's doing financially!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Gacha game 2: HEY DID YOU KNOW WE HAVE THIS GREAT $800 VALUE SALE GOING ON RIGHT NOW? RIGHT NOW! DON'T MISS OUT. IF YOU DON'T BUY YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET IT AGAIN. OH DID YOU JUST CLEAR A DUNGEON? HOW ABOUT A %570 VALUE PACK? SURELY YOU WANT TO BUY THAT DON'T YOU? OH YEAH HERE'S THE BUTTON TO OUR STORE IN CASE YOU FORGOT WHERE IT WAS. OH YOU WANT THAT COOL LOOKING ITEM? CONGRATS IT'S IN THE STORE! IT'S NORMALLY $800 BUT JUST FOR YOU IT'S 90% OFF WHAT A STEAL, BUT ONLY FOR THE NEXT 40 MINUTES, BETTER HURRY!
    Is this supposed to be the exaggerated Diablo? Even if it was like that - that's nothing. But it isn't even like that. Especially not in CAPS.
    You seem to be disingenuous in your presentation which is sus af.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    There are mobile games that funnel you into spending money every chance they get, and there are mobile games that just let you play the game.
    And all of them deserve to exist. If they were bad - no one would play them. If you don't like sales - play those less successful games that get by without sales.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

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