Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Elim Garak]

I've had plenty of business opportunities that were easy money but clearly unethical on my part, so I didn't do them.

Good, f2p though is not unethical.

When players come to devs and say "I want to buy in-game items, how much?" and the devs tell them "How about no?" and the players go "Alrightythen, black market here I come". And the devs like "Hm, maybe we should've sold them the items".

Very unethical, right? I think it's very ethical because at the very least the transaction is secure, and cheaper for the player, because the dev control the supply.

I bought more gold with WoW token, when I have ever bought off gold traders.

Money isn't the only thing that matters in the world, and people who act like it is often end up sabotaging themselves with short sighted money grabs that hurt them in the long run.

So maybe the people who pay in f2p understand this and should be commended for using money for what they are supposed to be used - fun?

[NineSpine]

Everyone is a victim nowadays, nice No one is a moron for making stupid choices and not thinking straight, what a time to be alive

If you take advantage of someone's weaknesses, even if that is mental weakness, you are preying upon them and they are a victim. Exploiting people doesn't become ethical just because you figured out how to target less intelligent people. What a weird, childish viewpoint: "It's ethical as long as the target is a moron!"

[Ghost of Cow]

Like I said: The attitude of a 13 year old edge lord.

You compared, "I spent too much money, oh no." to getting AIDS for fucks sake.

Who's being the edgelord, again?

[NineSpine]

Good, f2p though is not unethical.

When players come to devs and say "I want to buy in-game items, how much?" and the devs tell them "How about no?" and the players go "Alrightythen, black market here I come". And the devs like "Hm, maybe we should've sold them the items".

Very unethical, right? I think it's very ethical because at the very least the transaction is secure, and cheaper for the player, because the dev control the supply.

I bought more gold with WoW token, when I have ever bought off gold traders.

So maybe the people who pay in f2p understand this and should be commended for using money for what they are supposed to be used - fun?

Preying on people because otherwise someone worse might prey upon them is not commendable.

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You compared, "I spent too much money, oh no." to getting AIDS for fucks sake.

Who's being the edgelord, again?

Spending too much money is an eventual death sentence for a lot of people. Like I said, a child's view of the world.

[Elim Garak]

If you take advantage of someone's weaknesses, even if that is mental weakness, you are preying upon them and they are a victim. Exploiting people doesn't become ethical just because you figured out how to target less intelligent people. What a weird, childish viewpoint: "It's ethical as long as the target is a moron!"

Ah, once again, people who spend money in the way I don't like are less intelligent.

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Preying on people because otherwise someone worse might prey upon them is not commendable.

I see, replace in-game items with grocery product in a local shop that doesn't have it. Would it be preying on the weak for the owner of the local shop to stock up if there's demand?

[NineSpine]

Ah, once again, people who spend money in the way I don't like are less intelligent.

Not what I said, but I don't expect much more than this kind of base level sophistry from you.

[Ghost of Cow]

I'm sorry, but this thread officially jumped the shark when spending money in a video game was equated with getting AIDS.

I think we can all just move on with our lives now, it can't go any lower.

[NineSpine]

I see, replace in-game items with grocery product in a local shop that doesn't have it.

"If I didn't go to NA meetings and offer them free heroin, they might go try to buy it somewhere else, so I"m really the good guy here!"

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I'm sorry, but this thread officially jumped the shark when spending money in a video game was equated with getting AIDS.

I think we can all just move on with our lives now, it can't go any lower.

There's a reason all you have is this little fit and not any kind of argument. I'm sorry that your logic got so thoroughly trounced, but pick yourself up and act coherent again please.

[Popastique]

I'm sorry, but this thread officially jumped the shark when spending money in a video game was equated with getting AIDS.

I think we can all just move on with our lives now, it can't go any lower.

Don't say that, there is always a chance it will go even lower

[Elim Garak]

"If I didn't go to NA meetings and offer them free heroin, they might go try to buy it somewhere else, so I"m really the good guy here!"

You forgot the mic drop, that's a killer argument to shut down all arguments. Oh wait, no, you, Hitler.

[Weezull]

Victims of Diablo Immortal, i can't stop laughing

They have to be a victim because otherwise that would imply they have personal responsibility.

[NineSpine]

You forgot the mic drop, that's a killer argument to shut down all arguments. Oh wait, no, you, Hitler.

That's a perfect analogue for your argument. "I'm not exploiting them as worse as someone else could" is not an ethical stance, especially when the structure that all of this is happening in was built by one of the parties.

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They have to be a victim because otherwise that would imply they have personal responsibility.

Victim doesn't mean you don't have any personal responsibility. The victims of the opioid epidemic still chose to use opioids. In fact, a significant amount of victimization takes the form of convincing people to make decisions that are bad for them. Does that change that it was their decision? Of course not, the pyramid schemes don't magically become ethical, upstanding organizations just because the victims chose to get involved.

This is, as usual, a child's view of how responsibility works. "It has to be HIS FAULT or YOUR FAULT". It's black and white thinking that belongs in a movie or a cartoon, not the real world.

[Elim Garak]

That's a perfect analogue for your argument. "I'm not exploiting them as worse as someone else could" is not an ethical stance, especially when the structure that all of this is happening in was built by one of the parties.

You forget something else. Just because you use the word "exploiting" doesn't mean there's any exploiting.
You literally have no argument but emotional pleading. Still haven't used the "think of the children" card though. Is it your ace?

[Dhrizzle]

Just think a second about what you buy the crests with, then you will understand.

You use Eternal Orbs which come in various size packs to buy various amounts of Crests. Are they only sold in packs of 7200 in your region?

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If f2p players would leave then the game would die. Whales just want to either help or hinder non whales. They are not interested in playing with or against other whales. So yes, actually not playing this game would let to better games in the future. Unless you like being a victim or a pet.

Damn man, I feel bad for you.

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On NA servers and USD the $99.99 bundle gives you 7,200 eternal orbs (6,000+1,200). A legendary crest costs 160 eternal orbs. So their math is for the highest currency package.

Yes but there claim is you can't buy other increments which isn't true in my region.

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Just as video game companies are ignoring the numerous studies showing that their gambling practices in video games are unhealthy for a large segment of their audience, especially children.

Can you cite these studies?

[NineSpine]

You forget something else. Just because you use the word "exploiting" doesn't mean there's any exploiting.
You literally have no argument but emotional pleading. Still haven't used the "think of the children" card though. Is it your ace?

Preying on someone's weaknesses to get them to give you huge amounts of money is exploitation.

It doesn't mean everyone who spends money on DI is a victim, or is having a bad time, or isn't getting their money's worth. However, these business models are based on a pretty well defined and well known loop:

1. Offer the game for free to get people in.
2. Put them in a Skinner box.
3. Make the rewards harder and harder to obtain without spending money on randomized rewards.

The purpose of this loop is to get someone into an addictive cycle with your product that will compel them to spend money, and then more money, and then more money. You are counting on numerous psychological phenomenon to make this happen. There is the obvious Skinner box aspect, but then also you really want to prey on someone's post purchase rationalization to make them keep spending more money. You count on them justifying future purchases because admitting their previous purchases were a waste of money would feel bad. It is intentionally manipulative.

[KrayZ33]

You use Eternal Orbs which come in various size packs to buy various amounts of Crests. Are they only sold in packs of 7200 in your region?

Can you buy the exact amount of orbs you need, even if you use the smallest scale purchase, which you'd never click 100 times in the first place even if you ignore overpaying - which is actually the reason why he mentioned it
How will you do the purchase?

[uuuhname]

Outrage noted for all the actual good it will do or change it will cause. In fact large corporations in capitalist economies are very difficult to hold to account for just selling things. Sorry if the real world is not to your liking. The best advice I can offer about Blizzard or any company like this is to have some personal responsibility. Understand what they are—as many clearly do—and don't allow them to control you.

"shut the fuck up and stop complaining about things that I'm telling you are outside of your control"

is basically what you're telling me here, why are you even bothering to respond to me at all when THIS is all you have to come up with?

like just accept I want to call out the shitty corporation, for being a shitty corporation. unless you have ANYTHING ELSE to add don't bother responding.

[Dhrizzle]

Can you buy the exact amount of orbs you need, even if you use the smallest scale purchase, which you'd never click 100 times in the first place even if you ignore overpaying - which is actually the reason why he mentioned it
How will you do the purchase?

No, you'll probably have a few leftover to waste on other things.

[Aliven]

Damn man, I feel bad for you.

No need, especially if in condescending manner.

[Elim Garak]

Preying on someone's weaknesses to get them to give you huge amounts of money is exploitation.

Claiming that someone's is preying on someone's weakness to get them to give you huge amounts of money is just a claim.