Dragonflight Druid Talents - Add your constructive feedback

[huth]

I see you have made a total of almost 31k posts over 14 years. It's not hard to imagine how many of those posts are to the point. Before 9.2.5 went live I had 2 posts regarding tier sets for Ret paladins and Destro warlocks. Both of those tier sets had issues that I clearly indicated and both were fixed in 9.2.5. I don't know if it was my comments that made Blizzard change/redesign tier sets or not. But I am sure my comments were to the point.

Sure, Blizzard is going to make changes to the sets solely because somebody posted on a fan forum twice. Dream on.

For the record, 30k posts over 14 years is just 6 posts a day. That's not exactly high frequency.

[ulululu]

I see you have made a total of almost 31k posts over 14 years. It's not hard to imagine how many of those posts are to the point. Before 9.2.5 went live I had 2 posts regarding tier sets for Ret paladins and Destro warlocks. Both of those tier sets had issues that I clearly indicated and both were fixed in 9.2.5. I don't know if it was my comments that made Blizzard change/redesign tier sets or not. But I am sure my comments were to the point.

Tell me you suffer a severe delusion without actually saying it.

[Eluxe]

Sure, Blizzard is going to make changes to the sets solely because somebody posted on a fan forum twice. Dream on.

For the record, 30k posts over 14 years is just 6 posts a day. That's not exactly high frequency.

You just proved that all your posts are just bla bla bla. I don't want to argue with you, you just started first. It's considered polite to respect others' ideas. If you can't bring your own ideas, better just shut up.

I bet ulululu is your 2nd account on this website since the posts have only 7 minute gap between them, same attitude and around same time posts. Trust me, I can't be wrong on this.

P.S.
I will not continue this argument, this is my last response to you.

[huth]

You just proved that all your posts are just bla bla bla. I don't want to argue with you, you just started first. It's considered polite to respect others' ideas. If you can't bring your own ideas, better just shut up.

And you went ad hominem and attacked me instead of the argument. So maybe don't talk about "polite".

You're on a forum. Arguing is the whole point.

[TickTickTick]

I hate the fact that DF balance druid is the SL druid with all the different stuff split into the talents you have to choose between. So we'll end up a worse version of SL.

Also just by the talents you can tell there aren't going to be any changes to the way balance works.

[Celement]

Scrap the talent system and make abilities baseline for specs. This allows for different specs to specialize better and will but down on frustration in pugs when they die from people not taking needed utility.

[Nyel]

I hate the fact that DF balance druid is the SL druid with all the different stuff split into the talents you have to choose between. So we'll end up a worse version of SL.

Also just by the talents you can tell there aren't going to be any changes to the way balance works.

Wasn't that expected though? I mean if we look at it now, it pretty much feels like the - horrible - transition from BfA 8.3 to 9.0 (or 7.3 to 8.0). You play exactly the same as before but more limited and boring. The thing is, in Dragonflight there is no borrowed power to spice it up and none of the bottom max level talents are particularly interesting enough or change anything. We're stuck with a watered down Shadowlands-gameplay during the entire Dragonflight expansion. It won't be fun.

[RelaZ]

You want the list of issues. Sure, let's go. Here's the list of issues for Feral from PvP point of view (and some generic issues):

(Feral) Baseline

• Feline Adept still does not include Rebirth for no reason whatsoever.

Druid Tree

• Mighty Bash is 60second CD, 4 second duration instead of the pre-SL nerfed version of 50sec CD and 5sec duration. There's no conduit for CD reduction and it should be 5seconds so we have ample time to fake cast. Stop the pruning.
• Cyclone is essentially impossible to pick as a Feral, you'll be forced to pick Bear defensive talents in 90% of games and then have to choose between Innervate, Nature's Vigil, Mass Entanglement/Vortex, Wild Growth or Cyclone and +6% healing done. I'm sorry but it's just another pruning. Cyclone should be baseline. Its "fun" value far exceeds the others, but its power doesn't so it will once again almost never be picked when it's something we should always have. This is BfA all over again.
• Hibernate, Stampeding Roar, Soothe, Skull Bash, Remove Corruption and others will essentially not be picked in a number of matchups due to other talents being more valuable. They should be baseline.
• Typhoon and Hibernate are completely unpickable as Feral.
• Well-Honed Instincts is a boring passive that's simply too strong and interacts too well with the other Guardian "class" talents.
• Tireless Pursuit is not powershifting. We asked for powershifting in Shadowlands (pre-)alpha and we got this. It's utterly useless and will never ever be picked (the only reason it's picked in SL is because there's no good alternative conduit, and it still doesn't fulfill what we asked it to do). Blizzard needs to read up on what powershifting is. Just make Tireless Pursuit remove the cooldown of leaving a shapeshift form, and don't put it in a spot where it won't be picked 99% of the time due to competing with Cyclone/Nature's Vigil (or similar).

Feral Tree

• Predatory Swiftness still doesn't include Rebirth even though Bloodtalons no longer interacts with it.
• Predatory Swiftness still doesn't include Hibernate even though it's one of the most skillful mechanics (Hibernate wars vs other Ferals, other Druids and Hunter pets).
• SI, Infected Wounds and Predatory Swiftness should not be competing against throughput talents - they should be baseline. I can imagine at least 2 potentially BiS builds where either Infected Wounds or Predatory Swiftness are not picked.
• Adaptive Swarm and the 2 extra talents should definitely be replaced by Mangle (and 2 enhancing talents) which is more thematically correct and more importantly less RNG.
• Brutal Slash and Primal Wrath are still talents, why?
• Bloodtalons is still completely and utterly awful yet it's semi-mandatory in all bleed based builds (3 abilities, in 4 seconds? Who could've possibly thought that this was an OK talent? Especially when we don't even have 3 ST abilities baseline if you disregard finishers and optional talents). It needs to be removed.
• Why is Sabertooth still a thing? We don't want it. Just replace it with Blood in the Water or something.
• Why are we still trying to enable "2 paths", just get rid of the "bite" build and clean up the ridiculously awkward and annoying talents in the bleed build (Bloodtalons being #1). Unite the spec again.
• Brutal Slash needs to be re-tuned to not outshine Shred in ST. Stop the forced AoE in the ST rotation.
• Savage Roar is still completely underwhelming and is in massive need of QoL buffs.
• Infected Wounds is still on Rake (the spell we barely use often enough to keep the debuff up) and is only 20%. It should be on Shred and 50% as it used to be. Stop pruning, stop trying to find work-arounds. Just give us powershifting and proper Infected Wounds.
• Tiger's Fury seems to top out at 50 energy with 4 points?

Other things. These new trees are just going to be a prune. We used to have lots of conduits and stuff, and now we'll have nothing. Instead of putting interesting conduits and new/old fun things in, they've just removed all our baseline abilities and put them in the class tree, and put (some) legendaries in the spec tree. Like, where is Claws of Shirvallah? Where is Blood in the Water? Where is Force of Nature from MoP (not the taunt one)? Why are we not daring to create some fun gameplay instead of just playing it safe and most importantly boring.

I'm very sorry to say but whoever is designing Feral has an extremely narrow PvE Bloodtalons view, and moreso whoever is in charge of designing PvP combat (in general, not just Feral) has a very simplistic and boring idea of how it should be designed (minimize hard CC except for ~2 specs/classes, introduce massive amounts of anti-CC, ensure there's almost no way to outplay - just zugzug).

[Revamp Man]

There is 0 chance it will stay when people realize it is a strictly downgrade from the current simple and effective talent systems.

The talent trees will be disaster.

How is it a downgrade? I an be a laser bear tank with innervate

I can't wait to see Monk tree and check if I can avoid the useless talents like movement boost when 2 rolls are adequate for most situations and Disable has been neutered (I don't pvp which is why I'd enjoy being able to skip) OMG I might be able to do triple roll, tiger lost, chi torpedo again

- - - Updated - - -

Wasn't that expected though? I mean if we look at it now, it pretty much feels like the - horrible - transition from BfA 8.3 to 9.0 (or 7.3 to 8.0). You play exactly the same as before but more limited and boring. The thing is, in Dragonflight there is no borrowed power to spice it up and none of the bottom max level talents are particularly interesting enough or change anything. We're stuck with a watered down Shadowlands-gameplay during the entire Dragonflight expansion. It won't be fun.

As a WW Monk I can honestly say no expansion system after legion "spiced up" my game play

[Nyel]

As a WW Monk I can honestly say no expansion system after legion "spiced up" my game play

Covenants added a lot of flavor though, even if the Covenant skills for WW were quite underwhelming (for MW too, imho). But now imagine you're playing WW without all the Shadowlands systems (legendaries, conduits etc.) - that's how your class will feel in Dragonflight. And it will be really bad.

[Revamp Man]

Covenants added a lot of flavor though, even if the Covenant skills for WW were quite underwhelming (for MW too, imho). But now imagine you're playing WW without all the Shadowlands systems (legendaries, conduits etc.) - that's how your class will feel in Dragonflight. And it will be really bad.

You can take them away now and there wouldn't be any change dude

WW Monk has been one of the least effected by borrowed power systems since 8.0 hit
Our 4pc is literally "you hit a bit harder after 10 abilities but only for 3 abilities" and it's so not worth it that we don't even track it
Our BiS legendary is a passive haste buff
The soulbinds and conduits are the same

WW has the same playstyle it had in Legion

- - - Updated - - -

The only reason I think DF will be different is because of the possibility of old abilities returning
Give me chi explosion
Give me controlled Clones with a passive that makes them behave how they do now
Give me the ability to have 3 chi torpedoes and tiger's lust with serpent kick

That's why the DK and Druid trees were interesting to me. They gave different builds and the WW desperately needs that

[Migg]

The fact that you cannot move around the tree freely kind of kills any opportunity of creativity with this. Either that, re-arranging the tree into a grid pattern or even simply adding more paths would help somewhat. But if it stays as it is I don't see how this is in any way an improvment on the current gameplay.

I mean take a look at the general tree:

i.imgur.com/Oa9KSAb.png <-- copy&paste - I am not allowed to post links yet

On live I mostly play feral affinity resto; this is what the tree looks like after taking back everything that is currently available to me. (more or less, it's literally impossible to get back everything because there are not enough points)


Let's look a the things I gain here. Keep in mind that none of these are active choices I have made, they are simply necessary points to spend to access what I once already had:

• Increased Armor and Physical Damage [NNF]: Armor and Physical damage dealt increased by 6%
• Increased Healing and Magic Damage [NNF]: Healing and Magic damage dealt increased by 6%
• Increased Healing & Healing Taken [NNF]: Healing done and healing taken increased by 6%
• Primal Fury: When you critically strike with an attack that generates a combo point, you gain an additional combo point. Damage over time cannot trigger this effect.

So in the end, I am walking away with some passive % increases, and 1 actual interesting and useful thing in Primal Fury. But at the same time I am involuntarily giving up Hibernate and rake stun. There is no active choice on my part here.

With this new system, I AM going to lose some thing for other things. That in itself is not a problem. I would love to give up 'Soothe' for something more valuable in arena games where it has no use, but that's not really possible here, because you have to wade through so much shit to get to the talents you want.

The same goes for the spec tree. I want a resto build without efflorescence, wild growth and tranquility. A purely 1-2 target priority build. But in order to do this I still need to take several talents I do not want. Honestly, the only thing that really offers any amount of flexibility here are the last tier talents. You're going to get 3-4 of those, and that's what ultimately is going to define your playstyle. The rest of the tree is just filler.

[Myela]

Say goodbye to Cat-weaving..

What? I can make a very good feral resto tree that's going to be incredibly better than the Shadowlands version we currently have. We get the choice of an interrupt along with Furor, Thrash, and Primal Fury, that's insane.

I only speak in regards to the resto tree as I played this spec a ton on high level. Too many baseline things put into the tree. Far too few interesting choices from the past though I like that a few new things have been implemented like the 100% faster hots talent. However it has a 45 sec cooldown which seems far too low.

Lmao excuse me? You're a high level resto druid and you don't know what flourish is? Why even bother trashing the tree when you have no clue what you're talking about?

[Myela]

The new talent system looks like shit. You'll all come to realize it eventually, but its just the same abilities/talents that are already in the game, spread out over 61 talent points - which means oh yes, there will be pruning. Oh ya and its pretty obv which talents are absolute shit and which ones will be mandatory to function as a spec. For rdruid there is literally only 1 free talent point to spend however you want, the rest are all mandatory choices.

You are clueless on how to play resto druid and I'm happy that players like you are going to struggle thinking about choice so that you can stay in lower level keys/raids while complaining.