Diablo Immortal streamer spends $10000.

[Xilurm]

If this works why wouldn't blizzard just keep making games like these instead of AAA games?

Probably going to go down the the same road as Konami.

Then again Microsoft will own them soon so maybe not?

[GreenJesus]

Well, that's incredibly stupid. Why would a company care that you flipped them off on stream when your dumbass already gave them thousands of dollars?

Because he had hundreds of thousands of people watching his stream/YouTube videos/news articles written about him?

[Ghost of Cow]

Well, that's incredibly stupid. Why would a company care that you flipped them off on stream when your dumbass already gave them thousands of dollars?

Because it's just a big publicity stunt for their stream.

They get all the "mad about P2W" people frothing at the mouth and watching them really "stick it to the man"....by giving them thousands and thousands of dollars and lots of free exposure.

All the while their big brain 200IQ followers are cheering about how they really got Blizz good. It's right up there with people burning their Nike shoes.

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If this works why wouldn't blizzard just keep making games like these instead of AAA games?

Probably going to go down the the same road as Konami.

Then again Microsoft will own them soon so maybe not?

Same reason water parks still exist despite casinos being a thing. There's room in the market for more than one thing.

[Kittahsmash]

The item is worthless.

So are chips from casinos. You can exchange them for actual money, and there's a possibility that the casino can refuse to do that if they believe you got the chips by cheating...but until you cash them out, they have no value.

[Xilurm]

Same reason water parks still exist despite casinos being a thing. There's room in the market for more than one thing.

What? That's completely different. Konami stopped making AAA games because they cost way too much compared to just being in the pachinko business.

[korijenkins]

They definitely should be. Since you are not entitled to the medicine they produce. In a free world that is. Nice emotional try though.

Free market capitalists are hilarious parodies of human beings. Always the same nonsense until you're directly affected by something like it, then instant whining.

[Ghost of Cow]

What? That's completely different. Konami stopped making AAA games because they cost way too much compared to just being in the pachinko business.

Not sure why this meme propagates so much, Konami definitely still makes games - and some hugely profitable ones of late. Pachinko isn't even bringing in 10% of what their video games have been.

There's also the Silent Hill possibility, but who knows where that's at.

[s_bushido]

Because he had hundreds of thousands of people watching his stream/YouTube videos/news articles written about him?

Yes, hundreds of thousands of people watching him give tens of thousands of dollars to a "shitty game." It's so fucking transparent.

[Xilurm]

Not sure why this meme propagates so much, Konami definitely still makes games - and some hugely profitable ones of late. Pachinko isn't even bringing in 10% of what their video games have been.

There's also the Silent Hill possibility, but who knows where that's at.

What AAA games has Konami made after MGSV? MGS Survive maybe? Can that even be counted since it literally uses all the assets from MGSV? They've made games sure, but not AAA. Not a single one.

[bloodmoth13]

Is this how traditional gaming dies? There is no way other game companies arent looking at lost ark and this game and not noticing the obscene amount of money streamers spend on these games for "content". This is way past whaling, why spend millions on a traditional game when you can make low budget garbage with gambling mechanics and have streamers pay you for advertising it pulling in more gambling addicts.

It's gambling masquerading as gaming just like it's psychologists masquerading as game developers.

It's like the most evil combination getting psychologists running a casino.

As soon as psychologists get into things it turns to shit. It's honestly done more harm than good...

[glowpipe]

Future of gaming right here... I'll give it a decade max before every game, mobile or not, is like this and I'm being optimistic here.

Only regulation can change this inevitability and chances for such regulation going though in countries that matter is pretty low.

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And yes games like Lost Ark and Genshin Impact are few of the many to come that will try to move this shit to PC, even without being mobile games.

You are forgetting a pretty important factor in this equation. People. People won't buy shit and with more and more doing it, even less money will be given. Look at fortnite and pubg. Top of the battleroyal crap. Made billions, then more and more companies started making BR's for easy money, and now we get less and less of them as they don't really generate money anymore. Diablo immortal has only made around 24 million in its first 2 weeks. Thats like 400k copies sold of a tripple A game. Diablo 3 sold over 3 million copies the first day.

They can keep pushing shit like diablo immoral, but when no one buy anything and it isn't making them money, they have to change their tactics. Gaming will not be like this because the money is not good enough now, and it deffinately won't be if they keep going forward with this and get more and more competition

[Jerot]

Because it's just a big publicity stunt for their stream.

They get all the "mad about P2W" people frothing at the mouth and watching them really "stick it to the man"....by giving them thousands and thousands of dollars and lots of free exposure.

All the while their big brain 200IQ followers are cheering about how they really got Blizz good. It's right up there with people burning their Nike shoes.

Streamers gonna stream, it's all content

Like quin's audience wouldn't have heard of DI any other way, 2 of his top 3 games are Blizzard titles, including WoW and D3, and almost everyone into Path of Exile was into one or more of the Diablo games at some point.

Depends if the negative headlines are worth 15k to Blizzard when they're hoping to make tens or even hundreds of millions, it's really a drop in the bucket. Top mobile games measure revenue in the billions. DI may have made 20m in the first week but d3 made over 200m in the first day. News spreading of someone spending that much to get a single item in a game where you want up to 36 of them is going to turn off a lot of people, even whales. Too high a cost and too much RNG for the relative amount of power you get.

There's a reason other P2W games don't get nearly the same amount of negative press, they don't try to screw over their players as hard with crap like paid login bonuses you can miss or ridiculous odds on paid gambling for power. Or do such a bad job of trying to please both audiences that free players have no chance but paid players still have to grind to stay on-top, and both have to keep track of hidden caps to play efficiently. It's a comically bad system.

[s_bushido]

There's a reason other P2W games don't get nearly the same amount of negative press, they don't try to screw over their players as hard with crap like paid login bonuses you can miss or ridiculous odds on paid gambling for power.

Or...you know...Blizzard and its games have been a whipping boy of the industry for years now.

[Gaidax]

You are forgetting a pretty important factor in this equation. People. People won't buy shit and with more and more doing it, even less money will be given. Look at fortnite and pubg. Top of the battleroyal crap. Made billions, then more and more companies started making BR's for easy money, and now we get less and less of them as they don't really generate money anymore. Diablo immortal has only made around 24 million in its first 2 weeks. Thats like 400k copies sold of a tripple A game. Diablo 3 sold over 3 million copies the first day.

They can keep pushing shit like diablo immoral, but when no one buy anything and it isn't making them money, they have to change their tactics. Gaming will not be like this because the money is not good enough now, and it deffinately won't be if they keep going forward with this and get more and more competition

You are delusional.

Know why games like D:I and what not keep being made with exactly these systems? Because they actually DO make a metric shitton of money.

D3 outsold D:I first week? So what? Let me ask you this - what would happen after first month? Then first year?

Nobody gives a fuck about "first week" - same as Fortnite that took almost half a year to even become a thing and was a B2P game that legit was on verge of failing before it went F2P BR and made billions.

Games like D3 stop making money VERY fast - you get your hit and run and you're done. That's why it got abandoned. Games like D:I will keep making money for years to come and will outsell almost any B2P game except for the most exceptional titles. And the trick is - it does not even need to be fucking exceptional to do so - it does not need to be GTA 5.

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Also, people are a dumb flock of sheep that can't help themselves. All these "we gotta just stop buying" pathetic attempts to fight back fail time and time again, because in the end nobody gives a fuck about a bunch of sweaty nerds on MMO-C and even on Twitch, except for other such nerds who in total are just a loud minority.

You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out. That's why the only real way to fight it is regulation - the rest is just venting hot air.

[loras]

Though to be fair and transparent, they're not banning them because they're p2w. If the system was all about cosmetics only they'd still ban it - they only care about how the acquisition process works, not whether the result is in-game power or in-game prestige.

I agree that p2w is pretty shitty, but it's not the problem governments have with such games.

I'm not sure what aside from regulation we should do about disincentivizing pw2 designs - besides the obvious vote-with-your-wallet approach, of course. Raise awareness? Raise protest? Nothing seems particularly effective, as it seems a lot of people ARE in fact fine with p2w existing. How much of that is genuine approval and how much is jaded apathy and/or willful ignorance, who can say.

This part is not entirely true, as i happen to be familiar with some jurisprudence regarding such cases.
Practically the question of value is important, it's only gambling if genuine value is concerned, and "genuine" digital value can be determined by looking at the time and effort spent acquiring any item, thus player power is definitely considered to be closer to actual value than cosmetics, which do not affect time or skill necesdities.

For comparison: Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm are legal despite having lootboxes, their cosmetics-only approach not breaching gambling laws.

[Mendzia]

Are people really cheering on right wing politicians regulating video games because they can affect real life behaviour?

In 99% of cases - no...
... but in some cases like this or in some extent NFTs/cruptocurrencies - fucking yes.

[MoanaLisa]

In 99% of cases - no...
... but in some cases like this or in some extent NFTs/cruptocurrencies - fucking yes.

Enjoy your future games if they go after violence and stuff like GTA. They will, you know. Give them any encouragement and they'll follow their religious donors right down the line claiming that violence in video games is most of what's wrong with America. Fuck, they already are as far as that goes. Short term gain perhaps but long term would be very bad for games that lean toward adults.

[Dracullus]

Or...you know...Blizzard and its games have been a whipping boy of the industry for years now.

Of course. Just check comments and press when Elder Scrolls VI or GTA VI will be announced. Will be people be concerned that new game will be monetized like ESO or GTA Online? Will people bring in discussion predatory mobile practices from Elder Scrolls Blades? Or worry that it will have quality of GTA Definitive Edition? Will people bring up misconduct in company when new Assasin's Creed will be revealed? Or new Riot MMO?

Not to mention more obvious examples like new FIFA. Box price, casino practices and reset every year xD. But news are always "OMG NEW FIFA WILL WE GET 5 NEW ANIMATIONS?".

And of course I don't support this. I even think law should intervene and don't allow many of these practices. But I realize mobile market is huuuge and Blizzard want to piece of that pie too. Especially since they didn't participate in that while competition did it for years. And never I heard comment "Blizzard has X,Y and Z problems, but I least they don't make money on predatory mobile games." No, it's always "Blizzard is the worst." So why they would avoid mobile games if they don't profit from better reputation anyway?

[chronia]

Or these streamers are generating a buzz to make these types of mtx illegal. Netherlands and Belgium have already determined diablo immortal is illegal. Hopefully more countries follow. I want the gaming industry to get their ass destroyed for what they have done to video games in the last 10-15 years. What could have been amazing games were ruined by greed.

Whatever method can make MTX illegal i don't care. Just make videogames great again. Elden ring proved it is still possible.

Netherlands (and i think Belgium neither) haven't determined anything about Diablo Immortal, this can only definitively be determined in court (Which the Dutch gambling authority tried with Fifa FUT and failed). Blizzard has chosen to not bring the game to The Netherlands and Belgium, which is very different from 'us' having determined that its illegal. Out markets are most probably just to small for Blizzard, so they just won't take the risk of even getting into court.

Looking at the game itself, its probably not even illegal in the Netherlands, as for it to be illegal here there must be a way for players to convert in game gains to real money for it to not comply to our gambling laws. And i don't think a option like that is in the game (though i don't know 100%, as i can't play it).

Belgian laws seems to be a bit more strict though, but afaik they didn't pass any ruling on Diablo Immortal (or even did a investigation into Diablo Immortal) either, it seems Blizzard just doesn't think that the game will be populair enough here (and in Belgium) to make up for the potential hassle of a (prolonged) lawsuit. And thus they have decided not to release it here.

[Biomega]

This part is not entirely true, as i happen to be familiar with some jurisprudence regarding such cases.
Practically the question of value is important, it's only gambling if genuine value is concerned, and "genuine" digital value can be determined by looking at the time and effort spent acquiring any item, thus player power is definitely considered to be closer to actual value than cosmetics, which do not affect time or skill necesdities.

For comparison: Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm are legal despite having lootboxes, their cosmetics-only approach not breaching gambling laws.

That's not inherent to p2w, though, as "value" is a question of fact not a question of law. There's also cosmetics gambling that's been sanctioned, like e.g. the CSGO weapon skins which aren't functional only cosmetic.

While specific cases MAY end up as having p2w sanctioned when non-p2w might not have been, that's not the determining factor. "Value" is closer to it, and while value may be determined more easily when p2w is involved, that doesn't mean that there's value ONLY when there's p2w.

it seems Blizzard just doesn't think that the game will be populair enough here (and in Belgium) to make up for the potential hassle of a (prolonged) lawsuit.

While you could portray it that way, and it's technically not incorrect, this phrasing IS a bit disingenuous. By phrasing it like this you intimate that popularity was the deciding factor not to release it there, but it wasn't. Yes TECHNICALLLY you could overcome the cost of a lawsuit (even one you'd lose) if it was "popular enough" but that'd be unrealistic levels of popularity ANYWHERE. It has nothing to do with popularity, and everything to do with the entirely foreseeable legal problems they'd face in the countries in question.

They didn't release it because they knew it would be challenged by the law, and they don't want to go through that. That this is the case in part because no reasonably expected levels of popularity would offset the headache of a legal challenge is a technical detail, not a core argument.