11.0 - Reshaping of the World

[Mecheon]

Where do you get your numbers from? What are your sources who say that a revamp extension would have 7 to 8 times more workload than a normal extension?

A normal expansion has 4-5 zones on average, at the start, with, on average, two more added after

There are 22 zones in Kalimdor, and 25 zones in Eastern Kingdoms as a baseline. 47 old world zones. If you want to drop Teldrassil and the two that got revamps, that's still 44 zones. This isn't including any new requests for revamping blank spaces. That's as an absolute baseline.

Simply looking at math it'd take more like 10 times the workload. And we know from Cataclysm development they infamously underestimated how long that'd take, and that was off the tail end of WotLK when WoW was as popular as it ever was, so we can't reliably say it'd take any less. Sure, they don't have to make the entire land from scratch, but they have to redo the entire questing experience. For something that, let's be honest, 90% of the player base won't engage with if it isn't the quickest path to levelling.

I remain very much against a world revamp and very much wanting selective updates (Azuremyst/Bloodmist and Quel'thalas being linked to mainland and getting flying, plus updates).

[Gimlix]

I can only speak by myself but I also think a World Revamp for leveling would be worthless, when I talk about a Revamp I'm thinking about making only the very first zone for leveling (Mulgore/Elwynn/Dun Morogh/Eversong Woods/Durotar/Gilneas) anything else, while they still could be used for leveling like BFA zones nowadays, would be all primarily made with high/cap level in mind, with campaign quests, rares, world quests, dungeons, raids, world PVP, happening on them.

World revamp would do justice for the whole game experience, leveling, revisiting zones and even make zones relevant again.
Blizzard can make daily or weekly events pop up all over the world and make the world feel refreshing again. This way both leveling and end game is pretty unique and a whole new game experience.

If you gonna go out, you gotta do it good, don't revamp just for the leveling but also for the end game user to go back to revisit the zone for real purposes.
Hell they can even make new reputations in specific zones.

WoW needs either a world revamp or update to stay relevant in todays gaming scene. It's already fading away bit by bit, due SL even faster then ever.

They shown a good sign of improvement with dragonflight and a stability in playerbase aswell, time to make the game grow again.

[Mecheon]

It has been demonstrated many times that the areas of the previous expansions are as large as the old continents. Ok we have 4-5 zones, but they are much bigger than the old zones.

Here are scale comparisons. The standard of the current zones are not at all the same as at the beginning of the game. We can very well imagine that they will merge zones. Azure Span has a lot of diversity at the biome level whereas before a biome was a small area.

The Dragon Isles is larger than Northrend. And that's not counting zone 10.1.


As you can see if we combine the zones + those of the patches, it's as big as Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms.
Given that you don't have to invent everything and that the zones already exist, it would theoretically take them fewer resources to cover the 2 continents. Afterwards we can very well imagine that they make a continent then the other.

In fact, I don't even understand how you can be "against" as if it were in conflict with your personal values.

So yes, it is possible. Now will they? We'll see.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, I have a little problem with the images. I'm looking to fix this. I don't know why they are not showing...

I had to put links. Sorry.

Problem is though, zones aren't just terrain. They're also the questing experience, and that's where things are going to hit problems. Density and quest rates of current zones are probably different, but that's still a Lot of areas that need designing

Its still going to be a significant increase above, even if current zones are bigger

[Mecheon]

Just continue/update the quests that already exist. Creating new quests takes more resources than continuing established stories with a few twists. The density of the quests would obviously be adapted.

And a vast majority of the quests out there are either A: Completely irrelevant to max level and only relevant to leveling or people going for all quests, or B: Associated with the world state at the time. We all love The Day that Deathwing Came but its very much a questline that only makes sense in the way the world is presented at the time.

So you run into the Cataclysm problem. Again. Where people new to the game are just given these questlines assuming they knew stuff from Vanilla that they didn't know or care about. Except now we're also including Cata questlines in it. That ain't going to work

[Luck4]

Problem is though, zones aren't just terrain. They're also the questing experience, and that's where things are going to hit problems. Density and quest rates of current zones are probably different, but that's still a Lot of areas that need designing

There's no need to keep the same quest density, most quests are just filler material designed with old leveling in mind, this time around we need a Revamp focused on High/Cap Level and the major lore plot points of each zone, pretty much like the Campaigns Chapters we have nowadays. There's no need for hundreds of sidequests.

So you run into the Cataclysm problem. Again. Where people new to the game are just given these questlines assuming they knew stuff from Vanilla that they didn't know or care about. Except now we're also including Cata questlines in it. That ain't going to work

There's also no need to remove the Cataclysm version of Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms from the game, they can just phase it as they did with Arathi/Darkshore/Uldum/Theramore/etc.

[Doombringer]

I very much opposed Cataclysm's changes to the world... mainly because they were so heavy-handed in places. Splitting the Barrens. Draining Loch Modan. Flooding Thousand Needles. Whatever happened to the Badlands. They whalloped many areas that players "grew up" in and that's going to sting. Disappointing at least and angering at most. And it didn't help that Deathwing himself was handled quite poorly as a villain throughout the expack.

But, we're well beyond that now. I can go back to Classic WoW when I want the old-old world. I'm prepared to trust that any revamp Blizzard does of the world will be handled judiciously. The concepts in this thread are an example of good changes to flesh out zones and areas that had a lot of unused space.

[Luck4]

A new trend meme has started on Reddit, and I jumped on it right away:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...mply_remember/

Keep the dream alive!

[Mecheon]

There's no need to keep the same quest density, most quests are just filler material designed with old leveling in mind, this time around we need a Revamp focused on High/Cap Level and the major lore plot points of each zone, pretty much like the Campaigns Chapters we have nowadays. There's no need for hundreds of sidequests.

Then the vast majority of zones will just be skipped over or ignored and we run into Vanilla Azshara problems of 'why is this zone here'. Zones need that big pile of quests to them to justify their inclusion as a zone

Its the catch 22. If you want a revamp, every zone needs sufficient quests to justify its inclusion. If they're only for max level (or, well, getting to max level), then they'll still need those. Otherwise, all that work done revamping the world? Its wasted if no one goes out there.

And let's both be honest here, the vast majority of these max level quests will be ignored the moment people hit level 80, so aiming them squarely at an endgame audience is a road to failure

There's also no need to remove the Cataclysm version of Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms from the game, they can just phase it as they did with Arathi/Darkshore/Uldum/Theramore/etc.

There's limits to what they can do with those changes. It'll prevent any talk of merging zones, for one.

[Luck4]

Then the vast majority of zones will just be skipped over or ignored and we run into Vanilla Azshara problems of 'why is this zone here'. Zones need that big pile of quests to them to justify their inclusion as a zone

Its the catch 22. If you want a revamp, every zone needs sufficient quests to justify its inclusion. If they're only for max level (or, well, getting to max level), then they'll still need those. Otherwise, all that work done revamping the world? Its wasted if no one goes out there.

You're trying to make it look undertaking and I'm trying to show that it doesn't need to be that way, new quests can be added later once the terrain and zone design is done, since these are the foundation for all the content that makes use of any zones. Revamped Arathi barely has any quests, but Blizzard made it in such a way that people stayed there doing content regardless, same for Revamped Darkshore.

If Blizzard really delves into it, adding questlines after launch, players might spend weeks speculating where the next quests chain will take place based on which zones haven't been used that much, and this alone can be really fun.

And let's both be honest here, the vast majority of these max level quests will be ignored the moment people hit level 80, so aiming them squarely at an endgame audience is a road to failure

Campaigns are not ignored, nor are World Quests, it's evergreen content with a lot of lore, rewards, and replayability put behind them.

There's limits to what they can do with those changes. It'll prevent any talk of merging zones, for one.

Simple solution: Just make a toggle for the whole continent using a new system such as Chromie Time.

[bbr]

It would be amusing if they did a cataclysm.
A merging of worlds into a super server that destroys all extra planes and worlds - merging them into a massive map that spreads in all directions.

[huth]

It would be amusing if they did a cataclysm.
A merging of worlds into a super server that destroys all extra planes and worlds - merging them into a massive map that spreads in all directions.

So merging all into a single, mathematical, plane?

[Skytotem]

Circling back to the OP's proposals, I think the 'mega zones' would be the best ways to do a revamp.

Breaking Kalimdor into three pieces with its northern woods (Darkshore, Moonglade, Felwood, Hyjal, Winterspring, Ashenvale), Central barrens (Barrens N/S, Stonetalon, Mulgore, Desolace, Dustwallow, Durotar), and its southern wilds (Feralas, 1k needles, Tanaris, Un'goro, Silithus, and Uldum)

And EK into three chunks... Lordaeron (Tirisfal, Silverpine, Gilneas, E/W Plaguelands, Ghostlands, Eversong, Hinterlands, Hillsbrad), Dwarven lands (Wetlands, TwiHi, Loch Modan, Dun Morogh, Badlands, Searing Gorge, Burning Steppes), and southern EK (Elwynn, Redridge, Duskwood, Westfall, Swamp of Sorrows, Blasted Lands, Stranglethorn (Cape and vale))

[Luck4]

Circling back to the OP's proposals, I think the 'mega zones' would be the best ways to do a revamp.

I'm not gonna lie, at this point, I would welcome with open arms any revamp approach, LMAO!

That's how badly I think this game needs it.

[Le Conceptuel]

I'm still leaning towards a piecemeal revamp beginning with Lordaeron—it has room for the exact number of zones necessary to carry an expansion, as well as several potential patch zones.

[KSM899]

Why do people want a revamp?

[Luck4]

Why do people want a revamp?

For me, it's to see more OG races lore development, instead of solving Foreign/Allien races problems, I would like to see what's next for the Scarlet Crusade, Scourge, Defias Brotherhood, Grimtotem, Burning Blade Clan, Burning Legion, Venture Co., Blackrock Clan, and what next for all the OG races, where the Night Elves are living, helping the Gnomes/Worgens/Forsaken take back their homes and seeing them restored, understanding the dynamics and place of all the new Orc clans that joined the Horde, Ogres finally becoming a playable Horde race, dealing with that Sword in Silithus, cleansing Quel'thalas from the Scourge for good and seeing it restored according to new lore, helping and seeing the Draenei becoming a proper Azerothian race.

The list goes on... basically, I had enough of new Islands/Allien Planets/Cosmic Planes, and their boring denizens. I wanna see and learn more about the OG races and their foes again! I want an expansion that focuses on Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms lore.

[Swnem]

Where do you get your numbers from? What are your sources who say that a revamp extension would have 7 to 8 times more workload than a normal extension?

I can count. lol

Count the number of zones on the old continents and extrapolate. How difficult is it? I was even generous.

[Berkilak]

I very much opposed Cataclysm's changes to the world... mainly because they were so heavy-handed in places. Splitting the Barrens. Draining Loch Modan. Flooding Thousand Needles. Whatever happened to the Badlands. They whalloped many areas that players "grew up" in and that's going to sting. Disappointing at least and angering at most. And it didn't help that Deathwing himself was handled quite poorly as a villain throughout the expack.

But, we're well beyond that now. I can go back to Classic WoW when I want the old-old world. I'm prepared to trust that any revamp Blizzard does of the world will be handled judiciously. The concepts in this thread are an example of good changes to flesh out zones and areas that had a lot of unused space.

The cardinal sin of Cataclysm was not allowing us to "resolve" those situations. They're in a state of cataclysm in perpetuity. They should have been "fixed," where possible, upon completion of the zones. Destroying these places that were so important to us was a good choice, on its face. It was impactful. But making that dramatic point was not worth putting the world into this perpetual state of destruction. Which is especially flagrant when the rest of the story moved beyond Deathwing.

[huth]

Congratulations, you know how to count.

Meanwhile we have already explained that the old areas are much smaller than those of today. Well yes it is not enough to count, but to compare the scales.

There's still considerably more of them even if you just go by actual usable content. EK and Kalimdor are by far the largest "continents" in the game *each*.

[Daronokk]

[*]WoW Classic: The Ongoing Preservation of Old Expansions - Vanilla, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and by the sound of things also Cataclysm will soon all be preserved in the form of WoW Classic.

This is no longer true. There is only WoW Classic and WoW Classic Wrath of the Lich King. Burning Crusade no longer exists.