Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Nerovar]

Blizzard in 2022 be like: what if we made Dragons but they actually fucking suck.

Failing to make a dragon race/class look cool in a fantasy universe like Warcraft is actually an impressive feat. Well done!

[Gumble]

It was in the fairy tale book that Blizzard recently released, and Blizzard stated that it was canon.

Ah their books. Not in the game, I put no stock in it. I've never seen anyone or anything in game refer to Chromie as anything but a 'she'. Saying books that contradict the game are 'canon' is the same as saying this new Obi-Wan show is 'canon'.

Everyone who actually cares just goes "nah, that didn't happen" and moves on.

[Berkilak]

Thankfully, They are not getting a tanking spec nor do they need it so you guys can be onboard with it all you like because it's not happening.. Evoker is a Ranged Spellcaster class NOT a tank.

While this is true, the concepts are not mutually exclusive.

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Ah their books. Not in the game, I put no stock in it. I've never seen anyone or anything in game refer to Chromie as anything but a 'she'. Saying books that contradict the game are 'canon' is the same as saying this new Obi-Wan show is 'canon'.

Everyone who actually cares just goes "nah, that didn't happen" and moves on.

If you know the naming conventions, when you see her in her dragon form, her name has a male prefix. So it's technically in-game. They just happened to pounce on this typo to make it more significant.

[Gumble]

Going out of your way to make something fit your politics isn't a good way to get a large group of people to like your product. I suppose you can do that, but history doesn't show that as an enduring strategy.

Keep politics out of fantasy games

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Going out of your way to make something fit your politics isn't a good way to get a large group of people to like your product. I suppose you can do that, but history doesn't show that as an enduring strategy.

Keep politics out of fantasy games

Dragon age origins, Finial fantasy tactics, the Witcher, all fantasy games with politics also all rated some of the best RPG/fantasy games, if any thing bummer games need to add politics as people love games that do it well.

[Cheezits]

Are people actually arguing if the lack of dragon titties is inherently political? This isn't a trans movement, its the same reason why Tortollan, Sethrak and Jinyu girl lack tits or dimorphism.

[Myradin]

Dragon age origins, Finial fantasy tactics, the Witcher, all fantasy games with politics also all rated some of the best RPG/fantasy games, if any thing bummer games need to add politics as people love games that do it well.

Key part is doing it well.

Ruining the game's likely only draconic race/class to hamfist in modern politics is not it.

[Ielenia]

Which is why I said "tend to" as opposed to "always". In the interest of gameplay, it makes sense for Blizzard to make the DE lean more towards the dragon form being the defacto combat form.

But again: the guy you use as an avatar doesn't "tend to" fight in dragon form. He's most of the time fighting in visage form. I'm pointing this out again because he's one you love to use as an example.

[Veluren]

But again: the guy you use as an avatar doesn't "tend to" fight in dragon form. He's most of the time fighting in visage form. I'm pointing this out again because he's one you love to use as an example.

Devil's advocate, Wrathion is also a full dragon, not a Dracthyr, we've never seen true dragons be able to take on a hybrid form of any kind, so when it comes to "being small, fast and agile" you'd probably rather fight in visage form than dragon form, which leans more towards "large, takes up room, slow but strong".

Dracthyr are big by all accounts of the math we've seen, but big-for-a-humanoid is still nowhere near the size a grown or even young-adult dragon touches on, so they can double up on the advantages of both forms at once.

[Ielenia]

If you notice, the Dracthyr and dragons such as Alexstraza, Wrathion, and Kalecgos are not mounts.

You might want to rethink your position on that one:

Life-binder's Handmaiden:


Obsidian Worldbreaker:


etc....

[Teriz]

There's an Anduin joke you can sneak in there.

Uh... Okay.

I'd be interested to know which are the actual top specs and if they play similarly to each other and to the Dracthyr Evoker.

Top three are Balance, MM, and BM. That's a pretty solid variety. It doesn't really matter how similarly the DE will play to that, what matters is that this is the first new ranged DPS since vanilla, and its based on dragons. It's going to be a very popular spec that only one race has access to.

I guess mammals also have the courtesy to cover themselves up, unlike reptiles?

Also reptiles in WoW can have beards.

The entire lore behind the Worgen is that they're trying to hold on to their humanity. It makes sense why they would make every effort to be as human as possible.

Also you never heard of Bearded Lizards? They have beards whether male or female.

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But again: the guy you use as an avatar doesn't "tend to" fight in dragon form. He's most of the time fighting in visage form. I'm pointing this out again because he's one you love to use as an example.

And he's one dragon out of several. That's the point.

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You might want to rethink your position on that one:

Life-binder's Handmaiden:


Obsidian Worldbreaker:


etc....

Uh, that's not Alexstraza or Deathwing. Those are mounts created to resemble those dragons.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Key part is doing it well.

Ruining the game's likely only draconic race/class to hamfist in modern politics is not it.

There aren't any hamfisted Politics' in the dracthyr some people not liking there design doesn't make it Political.

Gumble was also talking about chromie being trans not the Dracthyr.

[Niwes]

they better invested that money and effort in giving all existing class rigs rather cool dragon‘esque spell animations (stuff like fire mages dragon breath, fireballs where the hands casting it are transformed into a dragonlike claw etc.).

and then give them the ability to instant shape shift from the class form (human, tauren, whatever) into a (fullsized) dragon, as a flight form, like druids flight form. even such things as „select the dragon flight form model from all your collected dragon mounts“ could be used as flight form.

and on top of first point above there are still the options to add a talent like Syndragosas Breath (DK) where the class itself transforms quickly into that dragon and automatically lands where it started. like a combination from DH quick rush/charge ability (no clue how its named) and SB of DK.

all that would be better than this hillarious „Drakthyr“ models/class. imo, the actual „Drakthyrs“ will become a huge nose dive. i read and know from sooo many ppls, ofc including myself, that just find these class models completely hillarious and have exactly ZERO interests in ever playing this class. if you combine this with the fact that in general a new class only targets 1/13th of the playerbase, this will go downhill hard imo.

[Ielenia]

And he's one dragon out of several. That's the point.

But one you say the class was based from, don't you?

Uh, that's not Alexstraza or Deathwing. Those are mounts created to resemble those dragons.

For all intents and purposes of this discussion, they are "Alexstrasza" and "Deathwing" because, if what you said was true (those dragons aren't dragons we use as mounts) then we wouldn't have mounts that look exactly like them.

[Katchii]

There's an Anduin joke you can sneak in there.



I'd be interested to know which are the actual top specs and if they play similarly to each other and to the Dracthyr Evoker.



I guess mammals also have the courtesy to cover themselves up, unlike reptiles?

Also reptiles in WoW can have beards.

Reptiles can also have distinctive external clues to differentiate between males and females. Some of them anyway, not all....but the same can be said of mammals too, where they don't all have distinctive visual cues.

It's the humanoid part showing in this case, not the animal part...because actual wolves, don't have boobs either.

[Ielenia]

Devil's advocate, Wrathion is also a full dragon, not a Dracthyr, we've never seen true dragons be able to take on a hybrid form of any kind, so when it comes to "being small, fast and agile" you'd probably rather fight in visage form than dragon form, which leans more towards "large, takes up room, slow but strong".

Dracthyr are big by all accounts of the math we've seen, but big-for-a-humanoid is still nowhere near the size a grown or even young-adult dragon touches on, so they can double up on the advantages of both forms at once.

But dracthyr isn't a "hybrid form". They have their draconic form, and their visage form. No in-between.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But dracthyr isn't a "hybrid form". They have their draconic form, and their visage form. No in-between.

Arguably both forms are a hybrid forms, the draconic one takes on the upright posture and body structure of a humanoid and the visage form takes on scales horns ect from a dragon.

[Soikona]

Thankfully, They are not getting a tanking spec nor do they need it so you guys can be onboard with it all you like because it's not happening.. Evoker is a Ranged Spellcaster class NOT a tank.

Being ranged is not exclusive of tanking tbf. A lot of MMOs have ranged tanks.

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Blizzard in 2022 be like: what if we made Dragons but they actually fucking suck.

Failing to make a dragon race/class look cool in a fantasy universe like Warcraft is actually an impressive feat. Well done!

It really is. All they would have had to do was look at Dragonborn in D&D 5E, and that would be drastically better.

As it stands, the current model is so cartoony, that it looks out of place with WoW, and would be more fitting with Fortnite. Maybe that’s their target audience now?

[Gumble]

There aren't any hamfisted Politics' in the dracthyr some people not liking there design doesn't make it Political.

Gumble was also talking about chromie being trans not the Dracthyr.

The more they talk about them, the more political they sound.


And having politics in games can work if the game comes first and the politics is something that simply happens to resemble or inspire something in the game.

If you see something in FF14 and say "hey that boss sounds familiar, I think the inspiration they took was X" that can work.

If you see something in GW2 and say "oh that is a character designed to be Donald Trump, and there is one designed to be Justin Trudeau and they are having the same political arguments the real world is having" then you go too far into it.


It feels like the way they are going, WoW is putting the message first and the game second, and the response they are getting isn't surprising because of it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The more they talk about them, the more political they sound.


And having politics in games can work if the game comes first and the politics is something that simply happens to resemble or inspire something in the game.

If you see something in FF14 and say "hey that boss sounds familiar, I think the inspiration they took was X" that can work.

If you see something in GW2 and say "oh that is a character designed to be Donald Trump, and there is one designed to be Justin Trudeau and they are having the same political arguments the real world is having" then you go too far into it.


It feels like the way they are going, WoW is putting the message first and the game second, and the response they are getting isn't surprising because of it.

They haven’t talked about them since the announcement and all of that was putting the game first talking about the lore of the dragon flights gameplay of mixing different magics ect, there is no trump or Trudeau spouting the same stuff as real life.

Same thing with chromie her being trans has been suspected since classic because of dragon naming conventions and how they can change there humanoid forms, they didn’t just make a blue post or put out a statement about her being trans they went out of there way to expand upon dragon lore in a way that fits with every thing else and said she was trans there.

The message has never come before the game in wow’s case.