Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Gumble]

The message has never come before the game in wow’s case.

It appears a ton of people disagree with that. Maybe add "..... to me" after that statement.

It could also just be that you simply agree with the message, much in the same way that viewers of Fox News would say the same about their shows. Your bias tends to make you ignore behaviour as long as you agree with it.


Of course, it could all simply be laziness that people put their own issues onto and its easier to not argue with them from Blizzard's standpoint. Hard to say.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It appears a ton of people disagree with that. Maybe add "..... to me" after that statement.

It could also just be that you simply agree with the message, much in the same way that viewers of Fox News would say the same about their shows. Your bias tends to make you ignore behaviour as long as you agree with it.


Of course, it could all simply be laziness that people put their own issues onto and its easier to not argue with them from Blizzard's standpoint. Hard to say.

You didn’t even know that they actually made her trans until this thread you have no idea how they handled the message or the way that it was portrayed. The facts of the matter are that instead of making some Twitter or forum post to maximize publicity and pandering they made actual lore that fits in perfectly with every thing else we know about dragons that also confirms things fans have been speculating for almost 20 years.

As far as Bias goes without detailing to hard I’ll
Just say that I don’t actually care about these issues at all I have no feelings towards the message other then apathy.

[Ielenia]

Arguably both forms are a hybrid forms, the draconic one takes on the upright posture and body structure of a humanoid and the visage form takes on scales horns ect from a dragon.

They are hybrids, yes, but in this context we're talking about an intermediary form to two separate forms, just like werewolves of mythology are humans that can turn into wolves and a hybrid form, the 'werewolf' form.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They are hybrids, yes, but in this context we're talking about an intermediary form to two separate forms, just like werewolves of mythology are humans that can turn into wolves and a hybrid form, the 'werewolf' form.

Well ya but wouldn’t the dracthyr be the wear wolf form in question?

To stick with the Weareolf analogy, some times werewolf’s swap between actual wolfs and humans with no in between upright form, some times It’s only upright and human and some times it’s all 3 or they are stuck in the up right form. Dragons would essentially be the first kind of werewolf lacking the inbetween form and drac’s would be the second lacking the pure wolf form.

[Ielenia]

Well ya but wouldn’t the dracthyr be the wear wolf form in question?

No, because the dracthyr and dragons are separate entities. Their visage form could be considered a "hybrid form" if dracthyr also had a tertiary form being full human/elf.

To stick with the Weareolf analogy, some times werewolf’s swap between actual wolfs and humans with no in between upright form, some times It’s only upright and human and some times it’s all 3 or they are stuck in the up right form. Dragons would essentially be the first kind of werewolf lacking the inbetween form and drac’s would be the second lacking the pure wolf form.

Having a "hybrid form" doesn't mean werewolves have to turn into said hybrid form every time they switched from wolf to human and vice-versa. It's just a tertiary form that combines traits of both other forms, hence 'hybrid' form.

[Nerovar]

It really is. All they would have had to do was look at Dragonborn in D&D 5E, and that would be drastically better.

As it stands, the current model is so cartoony, that it looks out of place with WoW, and would be more fitting with Fortnite. Maybe that’s their target audience now?

Just let the Heroes of the Storm team take over. They understood how to properly translate the fantasy of a dragon into gameplay. Hell, at this point I'd take pretty much anything over this newfound rainbow dragonflight.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, because the dracthyr and dragons are separate entities. Their visage form could be considered a "hybrid form" if dracthyr also had a tertiary form being full human/elf.


Having a "hybrid form" doesn't mean werewolves have to turn into said hybrid form every time they switched from wolf to human and vice-versa. It's just a tertiary form that combines traits of both other forms, hence 'hybrid' form.

Well ya they are separate entities just like in the case of werewolf’s most settings won’t have them be able to go between wolf hybrid and human they normally choose human and one other so say a discworld werewolf would be like a dragon with just wolf and human while a fable werewolf would be just human and hybrid.

So it would be as if wow had both versions of werewolf’s just with them staying distinct from each other, so drac’s would be the fable (hybrid) werewolf’s while dragons would be discworld ones (no hybrids) with both having human forms.

[Teriz]

But one you say the class was based from, don't you?

I would argue it's more based on Alexstraza HotS.

For all intents and purposes of this discussion, they are "Alexstrasza" and "Deathwing" because, if what you said was true (those dragons aren't dragons we use as mounts) then we wouldn't have mounts that look exactly like them.

Uh no they aren't. They're store mounts, not actually Deathwing or Alexstraza.

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Being ranged is not exclusive of tanking tbf. A lot of MMOs have ranged tanks.

The DE pretty much proves that Blizzard will never create a ranged tank for WoW.

[Kiria]

Being ranged is not exclusive of tanking tbf. A lot of MMOs have ranged tanks.

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It really is. All they would have had to do was look at Dragonborn in D&D 5E, and that would be drastically better.

As it stands, the current model is so cartoony, that it looks out of place with WoW, and would be more fitting with Fortnite. Maybe that’s their target audience now?

Doesnt matter, Evoker is not a Tank period... People need to stop asking for something that won't happen as Blizz have already stated Tanks are in a good place.

[MrCool]

As it stands, the current model is so cartoony, that it looks out of place with WoW, and would be more fitting with Fortnite. Maybe that’s their target audience now?

You are in denial if you ever thought WoW isn't a cartoony game

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh no they aren't. They're store mounts, not actually Deathwing or Alexstraza.

They aren’t store mounts the deathwing one is from an anniversary event and the Alex one is from dragon soul.

[Berkilak]

They aren’t store mounts the deathwing one is from an anniversary event and the Alex one is from dragon soul.

Teriz has been over this before in another thread. Why aren't you getting it? The moment you put a saddle on a creature, it ceases to become that creature. Dragons are no longer dragons. Wargs are no longer wargs. Horses are no longer horses.

[Nightshade711]

Teriz has been over this before in another thread. Why aren't you getting it? The moment you put a saddle on a creature, it ceases to become that creature. Dragons are no longer dragons. Wargs are no longer wargs. Horses are no longer horses.

Also don’t forget that the moment they put armor on they’re not dragons anymore either.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Teriz has been over this before in another thread. Why aren't you getting it? The moment you put a saddle on a creature, it ceases to become that creature. Dragons are no longer dragons. Wargs are no longer wargs. Horses are no longer horses.

While Teriz might be a bit non sensical in a lot of his points I would say there is a degree of legitimacy in the whole “dragons don’t wear armour” thing at least lore wise.

Player mounts aren’t exactly canon in most cases and as far as lore dragons go there is only a single one to ever actually use armour I believe.

[Myradin]

While Teriz might be a bit non sensical in a lot of his points I would say there is a degree of legitimacy in the whole “dragons don’t wear armour” thing at least lore wise.

Player mounts aren’t exactly canon in most cases and as far as lore dragons go there is only a single one to ever actually use armour I believe.

True, though dragons are also huge and with massive scales. They don't wear armor because they don't need it.

Dracthyr are small, and could probably be snapped in two by a tauren or orc. They need armor.

[Auburst]

You are aware that there are female dragons in WoW that also have a beard?

But yeah I agree on that part - we need beards for Dracthyr, regardless of gender.

Only old dragon models when Blizzard didn't bother to make a female one. Since at least WotLK male and female dragon heads differ. Males have beards and edgier heads in general. Other dragonkin like Dragonspawn have pronounced sexual dimorphism.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

True, though dragons are also huge and with massive scales. They don't wear armor because they don't need it.

Dracthyr are small, and could probably be snapped in two by a tauren or orc. They need armor.

I don’t believe there is any actual lore about dragon scales and rather there protective property’s increase with age/size, game play wise whelp scales are treated the same as bigger dragons but that’s not much to go off of.

In theory dragon scales at any size/age could be just as good at turning away a blade, though of course armour would still be incredibly useful against blunt weaponry to mitigate the force of the blow and larger dragons could have much stronger bones making it less needed.

[Ielenia]

Uh no they aren't. They're store mounts, not actually Deathwing or Alexstraza.

I never said they are Alexstrasza and Deathwing. I said that, for all intents and purposes of the discussion here, they technically 'are', because they have the exact same shape as the aforementioned dragons.

And they're not store mounts. The Life-Binder's Handmaiden is a drop from the Deathwing fight in Dragon Soul, and the Obsidian Worldbreaker is an achievement reward. You didn't even check the links, did you?

[Myradin]

I don’t believe there is any actual lore about dragon scales and rather there protective property’s increase with age/size, game play wise whelp scales are treated the same as bigger dragons but that’s not much to go off of.

In theory dragon scales at any size/age could be just as good at turning away a blade, though of course armour would still be incredibly useful against blunt weaponry to mitigate the force of the blow and larger dragons could have much stronger bones making it less needed.

Dragonscales are repeatedly shown to be sized based on the dragon both in game models and in art. The aspects have scales that're larger than an entire whelp. Just like armor, bigger, thicker scales are better at deflecting blows than smaller, thinner scales.

Whelps are also just shown as being smaller and weaker in general. Bigger dragons tend to be tougher than smaller dragons.

[Teriz]

I never said they are Alexstrasza and Deathwing.

Then there is no argument. I said plainly that Deathwing and Alexstraza are not mounts.

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Teriz has been over this before in another thread. Why aren't you getting it? The moment you put a saddle on a creature, it ceases to become that creature. Dragons are no longer dragons. Wargs are no longer wargs. Horses are no longer horses.

And the point remains, Dracthyr and the dragons they are based on are not mounts, thus there is no basis for them to wear full armor. As someone else stated, they have scales, and I have little doubt you’re going to be seeing some scale-based defensive abilities pop up in the Evoker class.

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True, though dragons are also huge and with massive scales. They don't wear armor because they don't need it.

Dracthyr are small, and could probably be snapped in two by a tauren or orc. They need armor.

Dracthyr are actually physically larger than both Orcs and Tauren, so I doubt they could be “snapped in two” by either race.