Is it time to end gear gatekeeping?

[facefist]

Or just luck. My ret pally never got OWS trinket until the last week of SoD, and never got the weapon from KT. Massive bumps in damage.

I mean if you gave even a small thought to what I wrote, you probably would've understood that your situation doesn't exactly have anything to do with what I said. One trinket or one weapon drop doesn't necessarily mean that you have that much worse gear than other people in your guild that the whole gear system needs a rework.

[RobertMugabe]

Gearing has become irrelevant in this game, at least in context to earlier expansions.
Gear in the old days of classic, used to carry a gravitas and a sense of prestige.

Now gear is just something to be discarded with each new season.
It is cheap, expendable, and is relatively easy to do for mythic raiders/plus'ers, and high end pvp'ers.

Because of this, I would assume that the majority of players in high end content are pursuing these goals because of the intrinsic fun involved in the activities, along with bonus titles and mounts.

My question is, does giving max ilvl gear to world/daily questers take away from the experience of high end players, or do they even care?

If the world content had any difficulty attatched to it, then it'd be fine. The problem is that the open world content (just like LFR) is content with basically no way of failure, it's so easy you never have to pay attention to anything. I am not asking for this type of content to be really hard, but it does have to take some effort, challenge or skill to earn things. That said, I think that even the 252 loot you get from open world content is too op, considering just how brain dead everything is. The only hard part about the open world is reaching a rare mob before it gets killed.

As someone who is mostly a "world/daily quester" I wish the open world felt more like an RPG and offered a real challenge.

- - - Updated - - -

You were not around back in MoP when heroic automatchmaking dungeons were hidden behind proving grounds silver? Otherwise you'd know that your idea will not work and that Blizzard knows it doesn't work.

Wasn't that the case too in WoD, also with dungeons and I believe even LFR?
I can remember people being pissed af on this forum for being too bad to finish silver, so they couldn't queue dungeons LOL

[Chapel]

Yeah no, i know your type doesnt like hearing the truth, but people that dont engage in raiding content are literally the dum dums of WoW, you are just victims of whatever culture made you play WoW, when you had no reason to play anyway, you just did.

Its basically like if i started playing FIFA when i was a teen along with online betting, because the Greek culture is all about football and FIFA and betting about football, and complaining its shit and the FIFA game needs to change but i had the knowledge and brain to understand that anyone dealing with football in Greece is missing braincells, cause you have to be an uneducated monkey that follows its plebeian culture, to even support the Greek football teams but hey, they do.

And Blizzard as the smart company they are, found ways to keep you occupied to get your money, the same way they release a new FIFA game with 0 changes every year, and they make millions cause idiots buy it, and pay even extra afterwards.

That is your problem, not the company or the other players.

Now if you had the knowledge to accept what you are, and engaged in things without voicing an opinion, all would be well, but somehow you guys are so entitled, its insane.

Its like the other guy on here, taking 6 months to "Do all the M0 dungeons", something that you are supposed to do the first day you ding max level cause they are a joke, and the only way to gear up for the first week or two, since everything is locked.

Some of you simply cant accept, that the campaign/easy/irrelevant content as just a few hours, just because you guys do x5 or x10 to do them, and eventually run out after 5-6 months and start crying dear murder, again, not Blizzards problem.

Unsub and come back when there is more of the things you wanna do.

But yes, my raiding with my closed knit groups of the same 15-25 guys the last 8 years, clearing HC only raiding 2-4h/week, and a few more hours per week depending how fresh things are and then taking a break for 2-4 months at a time till the next patch, is the problem as to why you are bad at the game, you found the problem with raiders!

Nope. Still entitled raiders wanting the 5% of the game, they challenge themselves with, to be the only part of the game that is important.

[OMGTwitchTV]

It is time to end... everything really.

- Race/Class/Faction: We eat, sleep, fight, train, everything along side everyone else. It is high time they unlocked it all so you can choose to have a Gnome Druid/Pally on Horde, or a Draenei Warlock/Rogue on Horde, or maybe an Undead Paladin on Alliance. There is no longer a solid reason after shadowlands to keep it locked.

- Mount level training - If you have unlocked 310 flight in the past on at least one character, and have all of the Pathfinder achieves as well as the World Explorer achieve, then you deserve to get flying 310 at lvl 1 on alts and pick whatever mount you like and either ride or fly as you see fit

- Mog gear - No longer level bound. If you have it, you can mog it no matter what level you are

- Dungeons - Every dungeon from the previous expac, back to the first classic dungeon should unlock at lvl 10, same with PvP arenas and battlegrounds. Let people play what they want to play.

This would open the game WIDE up for all players to finally play their fave race/class/and faction at last meaning no more being punished to use alts. You can make your main and spend 99% of your time on it

[dragonflight10]

Gearing has become irrelevant in this game, at least in context to earlier expansions.
Gear in the old days of classic, used to carry a gravitas and a sense of prestige.

Now gear is just something to be discarded with each new season.
It is cheap, expendable, and is relatively easy to do for mythic raiders/plus'ers, and high end pvp'ers.

Because of this, I would assume that the majority of players in high end content are pursuing these goals because of the intrinsic fun involved in the activities, along with bonus titles and mounts.

My question is, does giving max ilvl gear to world/daily questers take away from the experience of high end players, or do they even care?

Seems like a cheap attempt to request that casuals get high end gear, i like how you disguised your request with ranting about how gear is "meh"

[ohwell]

For a new character, they should be running normal and then heroic dungeons to get a modicum of gear to prepare for ZM, rather than just jumping into it.

Once that is done, the ZM anima gear and cypher items are more than enough to do anything up to LFR. If one is not going into any organized content then they don't truly need anything beyond that. That doesn't mean it's good for them to not have access to any sort of progression, just that they can function well, within the content they are choosing to do with what's available to them. IMO I'd like to see raid and M+ gear scaled down in world content to prevent organized players from steamrolling non-organized players' content, but Blizzard seems more interested in providing an ego boost to people who play a specific way than in preserving the integrity of the content for those who are deemed 'lesser'.

I'm assuming new character you mean new player because every single new character I make skips right into ZM. At a minimum just circling for treasures will often get you what you need in time(much less you should be in order to get ciphers maxed or at least leveled).

The last part of your rant is just shear ignorance and just like the post quoted above you, the only ego boost seemingly wanted here is your own.

Your envy of everyone that you think is looking down on you is duly noted.

[Thes]

You don't seem to have much of a grasp on people. No, that's not true at all.

He's probably one of those guys who'd get gladiator or R1 too if they just queued arena one day.

[Caerrona]

You were not around back in MoP when heroic automatchmaking dungeons were hidden behind proving grounds silver? Otherwise you'd know that your idea will not work and that Blizzard knows it doesn't work.

That's irrelevant, if you couldn't get silver you were absolute dogshit and didn't even deserve to ruin other people's time in heroics.

[Jinpachi]

Just like anyone CAN run 100m in under 10 seconds. Most people just don't take time to do it. Right?

You actually think genetics have something to do with being able to complete mythics? If not, then the answer to your question is yes, if you run them enough times.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't seem to have much of a grasp on people. No, that's not true at all.

Tell me what's difficult about mythic that only a select few can do it? Because my experience in them tells me anyone can.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard needs to add mage tower challenges to unlock content. The biggest problem is thestruggle. doesn't tell them they are bad. A purely garbage player can hit 275 and get carried to ksh.

Here's an idea

Mage tower tuned at 25% = m+ 1-5 unlock and normal raid.

Mage tower tuned at 50% = m+ 6-10 unlock.

Mage tower tuned at 75% = m+ 11-15 unlock and heroic raid.

Mage tower tuned at 100% = m+ 16 - infinity unlock and mythic raid.

People will then stay in their lane and stfu.

you're talking like these are hard to complete. time-consuming at best. like i said before, learn patterns, stay out of the fire, dmg boss. Pretty simple, actually. It doesn't take high intelligence to do, as you must already be aware of.

- - - Updated - - -

Its delusion.

Whats easier to say to yourself

"I am terrible at one more thing i am doing, despite doing it for a decade" or

"There are other variables that i dont complete, that must be it, i am not shit, everyone else raiding must be rich and play 24/7!, they never do anything else!"

This is what is going on with these guys.

At some point you wonder.."Are they that low skilled or are they trolling?" then you have someone posting

"I died multiple times while doing dailies in Korthia with my 206 item level character and it took hours, this is why i play Classic, game too hard", when the same day you did the same dailies on a just dinged 150 ilvl character, it just took 1 hour by playing carefully versus my main that takes 6 mins cleaving 20 mobs at a time down.

And a few other golden posts that expose them as to being purely terrible at the game and nothing else, they are so disconnected from -actually playing even 5% correctly- that you cant take them seriously, cause they are so terribly terrible that you cant comprehend that they arent trolling, they are actually THAT terrible at the game.

^ this guy uses addons

[ellieg]

You actually think genetics have something to do with being able to complete mythics? If not, then the answer to your question is yes, if you run them enough times.

- - - Updated - - -



Tell me what's difficult about mythic that only a select few can do it? Because my experience in them tells me anyone can.

- - - Updated - - -



you're talking like these are hard to complete. time-consuming at best. like i said before, learn patterns, stay out of the fire, dmg boss. Pretty simple, actually. It doesn't take high intelligence to do, as you must already be aware of.

- - - Updated - - -



^ this guy uses addons

Can you link your armory so I can see your achieves? I'm just curious about your "experience in them"

[Osmeric]

Tell me what's difficult about mythic that only a select few can do it? Because my experience in them tells me anyone can.

Psychological research has long shown there are distributions of various mental attributes. Reaction time, length of the psychological refractory period after a decision, ability to monitor multiple things, sensory accuracy, dexterity/accuracy of manipulation. All these things are important for performance, particularly at the highest level. Simply achieving a high quality parse as a dps requires abilities beyond some level.

If you think people are all the same with respect to all these (and more) attributes, you are displaying a rather remarkable level of cluelessness about what people are actually like.

[Woods123]

Psychological research has long shown there are distributions of various mental attributes. Reaction time, length of the psychological refractory period after a decision, ability to monitor multiple things, sensory accuracy, dexterity/accuracy of manipulation. All these things are important for performance, particularly at the highest level. Simply achieving a high quality parse as a dps requires abilities beyond some level.

If you think people are all the same with respect to all these (and more) attributes, you are displaying a rather remarkable level of cluelessness about what people are actually like.

I’ve played wow at the ‘top levels’ many times in the past and 90% of the attributes you just listed are at an extremely low level compared to other games in terms of what’s required. The biggest road block in mythics is time. If you’re willing to spend that much time of your life farming and spending wiping over and over again until your group learns the fight and you slowly get gear so it’s easier and easier as time goes on, then you can do mythics.

The ‘attributes’ you listed are almost completely not required at all. I mean obviously if you’re a person who can’t play with keybinds because it’s too hard then yeah you can’t. But the average gamer can most certainly do mythics, given they actually spend time into it.

[neescher]

The ‘attributes’ you listed are almost completely not required at all.

Literally all of them are required. If you have a bad reaction time, you die (best case) or wipe the raid (worst case). You can't monitor multiple things simultaneously (boss ability cooldowns/mana bars, own cooldowns, positioning of yourself, boss and adds, own rotation), you do shit dps at best, and die/wipe the raid at worst. Dexterity, accuracy, all these things are important.

Time might be the most important factor for many, but you certainly need more than just that.

[Osmeric]

I’ve played wow at the ‘top levels’ many times in the past and 90% of the attributes you just listed are at an extremely low level compared to other games in terms of what’s required.

They are not, however, at a low level compared to what the average person can deliver. That some hardcore games require even more doesn't imply that it's easy, it just means that those hardcore games are targeting an even more extreme audience.

All this talk about "anyone can do it" is just a roundabout way to disparage the large part of the audience you don't want the game designers to serve, by making it seem they are morally defective and hence not worthy of consideration as customers. In that it's really stupid, since from a game designer's point of view it doesn't matter why someone doesn't do you content, it just matters that they don't. The game designer cannot blame the customer for being who they are.

[Woods123]

They are not, however, at a low level compared to what the average person can deliver. That some hardcore games require even more doesn't imply that it's easy, it just means that those hardcore games are targeting an even more extreme audience.

All this talk about "anyone can do it" is just a roundabout way to disparage the large part of the audience you don't want the game designers to serve, by making it seem they are morally defective and hence not worthy of consideration as customers. In that it's really stupid, since from a game designer's point of view it doesn't matter why someone doesn't do you content, it just matters that they don't. The game designer cannot blame the customer for being who they are.

I’m not saying literally anyone, but I major chunk of the population yes. The entire point is that the things you listed take a back seat to ‘time’

- - - Updated - - -

Literally all of them are required. If you have a bad reaction time, you die (best case) or wipe the raid (worst case). You can't monitor multiple things simultaneously (boss ability cooldowns/mana bars, own cooldowns, positioning of yourself, boss and adds, own rotation), you do shit dps at best, and die/wipe the raid at worst. Dexterity, accuracy, all these things are important.

Time might be the most important factor for many, but you certainly need more than just that.

I explained exactly what I meant by what you responded to so I guess there’s nothing more to say. It isn’t as required as the guy was making it sound. You can get away with being pretty unskilled at video games.

[ellieg]

I’ve played wow at the ‘top levels’ many times in the past and 90% of the attributes you just listed are at an extremely low level compared to other games in terms of what’s required. The biggest road block in mythics is time. If you’re willing to spend that much time of your life farming and spending wiping over and over again until your group learns the fight and you slowly get gear so it’s easier and easier as time goes on, then you can do mythics.

The ‘attributes’ you listed are almost completely not required at all. I mean obviously if you’re a person who can’t play with keybinds because it’s too hard then yeah you can’t. But the average gamer can most certainly do mythics, given they actually spend time into it.

When did you play at top levels? What were the most recent mythic raids you cleared?

[Woods123]

When did you play at top levels? What were the most recent mythic raids you cleared?

The very last one I did was the walking city but I wasn’t ‘hardcore’ at that time by any means but still managed to perform on all fights. I’ve taken long break in between the last time I was the most ‘hardcore’ was when heroic lich king was the gold standard.

Even a game like lost ark requires MUCH more skill than any difficulty of wow has to offer in terms of pve and I didn’t even get very far in that game.

[Schwert]

"The old days" prestige?
You mean, back when we could craft a lot of extremely high ilevel gear?

The obsession with ilevel is getting old. It's 2022 - cosmetics have replaced the "prestige" factor of ilevel, which is mostly just a way to pace and tune content difficulty and tiers.

If some dude spending 50 hours working on crafting quests and gathering getting a Mythic ilevel piece bothers you so much, then perhaps RPGs are not a genre for you. The gutting of various forms of end game through the year to cater to a mostly raider's ego over stat increases has caused this game to fall behind massively in terms of overall game content. And frankly, some guy wanting various forms of end game to have traditional stat progression isn't "ego" - narcissistic gatekeeping absolutely is though.

The faster people realize not everybody wants to do extremely high end content, but also wants to progress in an RPG, is the moment we can actually have a full game again, not just a raid simulator with scraps for people who want more.

[neescher]

The very last one I did was the walking city but I wasn’t ‘hardcore’ at that time by any means but still managed to perform on all fights. I’ve taken long break in between the last time I was the most ‘hardcore’ was when heroic lich king was the gold standard.

Even a game like lost ark requires MUCH more skill than any difficulty of wow has to offer in terms of pve and I didn’t even get very far in that game.

Really? I only played until Argos phase 2, which as I understand isn't even endgame, but I found that much easier than wow. As soon as you learn the 2-3 important attacks on each boss, you just dodge those and you can do entire fights without taking damage. The only fight that wasn't easy was the last guardian, don't remember the name. And it only wasn't easy because you had to remember a LOT of different attacks, and the game doesn't really teach you how they work, so you kinda have to rely on 3rd party external guides (which for me was one of the major pain points in Lost Ark in general).

In my opinion, the difficulty there wasn't even close to wow's mythic raid or high m+. I'd say it's more on a level with normal raid, maybe early heroic. I mean Argos was basically a 10 minute "look at the color of the circle under you, then run into the same color" fight, that you could oneshot with a group of PUGS a few days after release. I stopped playing LA a while ago so I don't know what kind of fights are in the game now, so I can only talk about content that's 1385 and below, all of which was easy.

[Woods123]

Really? I only played until Argos phase 2, which as I understand isn't even endgame, but I found that much easier than wow. As soon as you learn the 2-3 important attacks on each boss, you just dodge those and you can do entire fights without taking damage. The only fight that wasn't easy was the last guardian, don't remember the name. And it only wasn't easy because you had to remember a LOT of different attacks, and the game doesn't really teach you how they work, so you kinda have to rely on 3rd party external guides (which for me was one of the major pain points in Lost Ark in general).

In my opinion, the difficulty there wasn't even close to wow's mythic raid or high m+. I'd say it's more on a level with normal raid, maybe early heroic. I mean Argos was basically a 10 minute "look at the color of the circle under you, then run into the same color" fight, that you could oneshot with a group of PUGS a few days after release. I stopped playing LA a while ago so I don't know what kind of fights are in the game now, so I can only talk about content that's 1385 and below, all of which was easy.

Without even a fraction of a doubt. Wows mythics raids are nothing but what some games call artificial difficultly. 90% of the difficulty is around not having the gear required enough to complete it, once you get gear as the weeks go on the raid becomes exponentially easier. Also the majority of fights are difficult because of the fact that you have so much people it’s banking on the fact that at least one person fucks up so you wipe. If you condensed mythic raids down and made it a one man dungeon where you had to do the dance they would be insanely insanely insanely easy.

They just are hard to even get to that point because the raids are way too long, waste way too much of your time, and waste way too much of your time even before you step foot into the raid.

Lost ark raid for sure have mechanics and dances to follow too but a majority of the fights have straight up “reaction time” checks for a lot of their mechanics.