New hunter tree bois!!!

[Rageonit]

so looking at the tree, all of our old baseline abilities like BW, Aspect of the Wild, Cobra Shot, Barbed Shot etc are all now talents? so will we get new baseline abilities? also I don't see Wild Spirits at all, are we losing that ability for good? I know it was covenant specific but I liked it!

With the new system, you only gain abilities from levels 1 to 10. Afterwards, you only get talent points - you get no more baseline abilities. With the current system, most of your abilities are baseline, and you add a couple of talents to that. Dragonflight system is the exact opposite - most of your abilities are gained through talents, you only have a couple of baseline abilities.

[Eosia]

Overall they seem to look good I guess, but there is a lot to be desired as well.

I am rather annoyed that we have to talent into abilities that have always been baseline like Concussion Shot, Tranquil Shot, and Misdirection though. Not happy about that. Going to have to dust off the old addons that saved tree configurations for fast switching for various activities/fights.

I also do not like the fact I am forced to take Tar Trap in order to get Improved Exhilaration. The two abilities have nothing in common, so why chain them together? Especially since Tar Trap is something that I use in extreme situations in PvE since I can't launch it at my target, but have to aim it either manually or via "@cursor" macros. So it's not something I would use in the field on my own whereas Improved Exhilaration is something I definitely would need/use. Especially since Blizzard's mind changes from day-to-day about how much damage pets take outside of dungeons/raids.

Some of these other forced chains are Scare Beast/Improved Traps and Beast Master. Scare Beast is such a highly situational ability and traps have nothing to do with pets. Or Improved Tranquil Shot/Binding-Scatter Shot and Camouflage.

The same goes for chaining Master Marksman to Barrage. Unless they finally fix that ability to stop it from pulling mobs in every direction from six areas over. If it still is as clunky and hard to control as it was the last time I used it, arguably in Legion, then that's a point wasted if I want the DoT from Master Marksman.

But I am seeing a lot of old Vanilla talents that boost stats or individual abilities again so it forces some harsh choices in terms of abilities. Improved Kill Shot, Improved Kill Command, Keen Eyesight, etc.

I definitely foresee the same problem the trees had in Wrath cropping back up again since certain ability combinations are currently impossible at 70 but will be possible in expansions beyond Dragonflight. Those of us who played when Wrath launched remember the 40/21/0 BM spec with Double Bestial Wrath. For those of you who don't know about this, we skipped taking Exotic Pets which was the 41pt talent in the BM tree in favor of Readiness, the 21pt talent in the MM tree. You would then trigger Bestial Wrath, wait for it to finish, cast Readiness which reset the cooldown, and hit BW again. This got nerfed by making Readiness no longer reset BW's cooldown.

In the end, while they came part way, I think Blizzard did not solve the problem of cookie-cutter specs. Let's face it, how many of us are just going to see what Azortharian or some other high end hunter writes in a guide, see what the World First raiding Hunters are running, etc. and simply copy those specs? Because as it stands right now, I am not seeing a configuration that I want possible at the moment but rather a lot of things that will go virtually unused once again.

The MM tree looks pretty solid from what i can see so hopefully it wont feel garbage to play like it did in SL. still dissapointed to see that surv is being still after 6 years of feedback and terrible representation (they could atleast have added a talent that lets you go ranged or meele)

Surv essentially turned into MM with Magic Damage before the Legion overhaul. Period. When I switched from MM in Wrath to Surv in MoP, the only thing that changed were the abilities on my bar. My rotation was almost exactly the same. Even the timing. The same thing happened when Tier 18 rolled around in WoD and the 4pc bonus made MM play like it did in Wrath again and made the switch back.

Not to mention it lets Hunters be both Melee and Ranged like Druids and Shaman. This can make a difference when groups need a certain amount of melee or ranged for various mechanics which is why healers are actually considered melee or ranged based on class (e.g. Paladin is Melee healer, Priest is Ranged) so that those mechanics can affect them as well.

Not very much creative effort gone into the trees tbh.

Take what you have now and present it a different way so it seems you're giving something new.

The last time we even had something remotely resembling this was Cataclysm. We have had the talent "system" that exists now since MoP. This is a more restricted version of the trees that existed in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath.

Edit: Removed inadvertent tagging of the user "cursor". Sorry 'bout that.

[rrayy]

so looking at the tree, all of our old baseline abilities like BW, Aspect of the Wild, Cobra Shot, Barbed Shot etc are all now talents? so will we get new baseline abilities? also I don't see Wild Spirits at all, are we losing that ability for good? I know it was covenant specific but I liked it!

Steady Shot is baseline and Cobra Shot replaces that if you take it, so you are losing nothing there. Barbed shot is an automatic point since it is the only thing you can pick with your first point.

[cocomen2]

"Why is that Wailing Arrow not in base talent tree like interrupts for other classes?" Drunktards, why is it even in talents and not baseline....

And how come its one and ONLY shadow damage ability... damn, add atleast five shadow skills or not even bother, same goes for arcane

[Awsumpossum]

Surv essentially turned into MM with Magic Damage before the Legion overhaul. Period. When I switched from MM in Wrath to Surv in MoP, the only thing that changed were the abilities on my bar. My rotation was almost exactly the same. Even the timing. The same thing happened when Tier 18 rolled around in WoD and the 4pc bonus made MM play like it did in Wrath again and made the switch back.

I can't speak for Wrath, as I was playing Warhammer Online at that point, but I 100% disagree re: how survival/MM played in early cata. They were significantly different. Black Arrow/Stings, resets of Explosive Shot via Lock and Load, with Cobra Filler. MM was way slower/duller rotation to me, especially in the early tiers because of the need to chain Steadies for the buff. You also used traps a lot more, especially on certain encounters (chogall adds). I am in the camp of Cata Survival being the best era survival hunter and would love to see it come back. Some people prefer MoP, but I felt like it got a little bit bloated from the talent overhaul and wasn't quite as smooth. The downside to cata survival were the scaling issues that resulted in them gutting the spec's power. But damn, it was such a blast to play.

[Swnem]

My first impression is meh.

No one I talk to understands how multishot is not a baseline ability. It's not like you can choose a different style of AoE - Trickshots and Beast cleave are tied to it.

Err... what? I mentioned it on the first page.

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Can't believe anyone would miss ground circle abilities tbh! They are so toxic, especially in pugs!

Erm... the circles are gigantic. Cmon now... it takes a really handicapped tank.
We miss them cause they were strong. I really enjoy Resonating arrow with it's damage and crit buff. But, i guess they wouldn't bake the conduits in, so Wild spirits would be ok with me.

[Cheezits]

Good riddance to the "place a circle on the ground that farts damage" abilities. Boring spells.

Also hope I can get rid of Rapid Fire.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Erm... the circles are gigantic. Cmon now... it takes a really handicapped tank.
We miss them cause they were strong. I really enjoy Resonating arrow with it's damage and crit buff. But, i guess they wouldn't bake the conduits in, so Wild spirits would be ok with me.

You really never had tanks kite stuff out of circles? :O Especially at the start of the xpack when tanks had to kite nonstop? (which will probably happen again when gear is bad at the start of an xpack). Also in pvp people can just move out of them.

I dunno, I hate wild spirits lol. RA is better since it lasts for a bit when they leave (and has a shorter CD), but yeah i won't miss those abilities at all personally!

[Sondrelk]

Good riddance to the "place a circle on the ground that farts damage" abilities. Boring spells.

Also hope I can get rid of Rapid Fire.

Honestly I suspect Blizzard might end up artificially inflating the damage of Rapid Fire at this point. Unless MM gets large changes then it will still suffer from the same issues as now, in which case Rapid Fire is just a distraction when you could instead pick loads of abilities that amplify Aimed Shot.

I really hope I can get rid of Rapid Fire though. That ability was never satisfying.

[aeonss]

I still don’t understand why we have to use worst iteration of mm spec again 3rd exp in a row.

[Makaloff]

Overall they seem to look good I guess, but there is a lot to be desired as well.

I am rather annoyed that we have to talent into abilities that have always been baseline like Concussion Shot, Tranquil Shot, and Misdirection though. Not happy about that. Going to have to dust off the old addons that saved tree configurations for fast switching for various activities/fights.

I also do not like the fact I am forced to take Tar Trap in order to get Improved Exhilaration. The two abilities have nothing in common, so why chain them together? Especially since Tar Trap is something that I use in extreme situations in PvE since I can't launch it at my target, but have to aim it either manually or via "@cursor" macros. So it's not something I would use in the field on my own whereas Improved Exhilaration is something I definitely would need/use. Especially since Blizzard's mind changes from day-to-day about how much damage pets take outside of dungeons/raids.

Some of these other forced chains are Scare Beast/Improved Traps and Beast Master. Scare Beast is such a highly situational ability and traps have nothing to do with pets. Or Improved Tranquil Shot/Binding-Scatter Shot and Camouflage.

The same goes for chaining Master Marksman to Barrage. Unless they finally fix that ability to stop it from pulling mobs in every direction from six areas over. If it still is as clunky and hard to control as it was the last time I used it, arguably in Legion, then that's a point wasted if I want the DoT from Master Marksman.

But I am seeing a lot of old Vanilla talents that boost stats or individual abilities again so it forces some harsh choices in terms of abilities. Improved Kill Shot, Improved Kill Command, Keen Eyesight, etc.

I definitely foresee the same problem the trees had in Wrath cropping back up again since certain ability combinations are currently impossible at 70 but will be possible in expansions beyond Dragonflight. Those of us who played when Wrath launched remember the 40/21/0 BM spec with Double Bestial Wrath. For those of you who don't know about this, we skipped taking Exotic Pets which was the 41pt talent in the BM tree in favor of Readiness, the 21pt talent in the MM tree. You would then trigger Bestial Wrath, wait for it to finish, cast Readiness which reset the cooldown, and hit BW again. This got nerfed by making Readiness no longer reset BW's cooldown.

In the end, while they came part way, I think Blizzard did not solve the problem of cookie-cutter specs. Let's face it, how many of us are just going to see what Azortharian or some other high end hunter writes in a guide, see what the World First raiding Hunters are running, etc. and simply copy those specs? Because as it stands right now, I am not seeing a configuration that I want possible at the moment but rather a lot of things that will go virtually unused once again.



Surv essentially turned into MM with Magic Damage before the Legion overhaul. Period. When I switched from MM in Wrath to Surv in MoP, the only thing that changed were the abilities on my bar. My rotation was almost exactly the same. Even the timing. The same thing happened when Tier 18 rolled around in WoD and the 4pc bonus made MM play like it did in Wrath again and made the switch back.

Not to mention it lets Hunters be both Melee and Ranged like Druids and Shaman. This can make a difference when groups need a certain amount of melee or ranged for various mechanics which is why healers are actually considered melee or ranged based on class (e.g. Paladin is Melee healer, Priest is Ranged) so that those mechanics can affect them as well.



The last time we even had something remotely resembling this was Cataclysm. We have had the talent "system" that exists now since MoP. This is a more restricted version of the trees that existed in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath.

Edit: Removed inadvertent tagging of the user "cursor". Sorry 'bout that.

I cant say how WoD surv was but i know atleast that until mop MM and Surv was nothing alike,spare tbc/vanilla where talents were a mess. there is litterly no point bringing a survival to a raid beacuse other meele do their jobs better (S3 being the only exception due broken tier set and leggies). i mean at this point you can aswell say that arcane and frost mage play the same just with different skins. the old class system were built on a baseclass and with talents being a specialization of that base class. Not to mention DF is going to be the first expansion were MM dont have to suffer beacuse survs playstyle were being forced into the MM tree.

As long as surv stays meele without option to ranged in the specc, it will continue to be unpopular and controversial. blizzard could thrown a bone and give a option for ranged/meele in the specc to make both sides happy but they rather double down on the meele aspect despite it not working. the DF surv tree is a complete mess without any direction of what the specc is supposed to be (at this point its more a carbon copy of BM than a unike specc to be fair).

[Sondrelk]

I still don’t understand why we have to use worst iteration of mm spec again 3rd exp in a row.

Honestly at this point I can only assume that the developers are fixated on the idea of hardcasted powerful Aimed Shots and simply cannot be bothered to make something to mechanically amplify that idea further.

[Accendor]

The only good thing about all of this is, that Wild Spirits is gone. I hope it never returns.

Besides that, the trees look terribly currently

[Ryzack]

The only good thing about all of this is, that Wild Spirits is gone. I hope it never returns.

Besides that, the trees look terribly currently

Yep. I was hoping the Venthyr ability w/ lego effect might stay for MM... the ability feels really cool to use.

[Fantazma]

[Swnem]

You really never had tanks kite stuff out of circles? :O Especially at the start of the xpack when tanks had to kite nonstop? (which will probably happen again when gear is bad at the start of an xpack). Also in pvp people can just move out of them.

I dunno, I hate wild spirits lol. RA is better since it lasts for a bit when they leave (and has a shorter CD), but yeah i won't miss those abilities at all personally!

I had very few, yes. But i don't usually pug on my hunter. Even when i did, it was mostly ok. You have to know when to place it. Aka let the tank finish the pull or predict where it will be.

You are not forced into it on pvp anymore. Pick a different talent on the tree.
I mean... surely it's better to have than death chakram.

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I like the idea, but i don't like the abilities.

Black arrow should replace poison sting.
Dark arrow should replace Aimed shot. Maybe deals shadow damage? Better a percent of damage as shadow damage. I feel it would be OP if it was fully magical damage.

Nature damage to shadow damage.

Dunno about the banshee thing. Only makes sense for Sylvanas. But, if anything, it should replace disengage and have the same behaviour.

[Eapoe]

Yep. I was hoping the Venthyr ability w/ lego effect might stay for MM... the ability feels really cool to use.

Nah, they just baked it into talents in a slightly worse version.

[De Lupe]

Warrior: *Brings sword*
Mage: *Brings book*
Rogue: *Brings daggers*

Me: I brought a zoo!

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight...VYpIMRQUIjQQBQ

[thunderdragon2]

what i really dislike that convoke is available for bears but we completely lose wild spirits

[KrayZ33]

I really hope I can get rid of Rapid Fire though. That ability was never satisfying.

I'm still pissed about how fucked up that skill looks... instead of making it a channeled cast where the hunter draws each arrow and shoots it (like 3 shots in 1,5 seconds that hit as hard as the 8, or how many it does now) they made it look like your hunter has a spasm and it shoots red "dots" like it's using graphics from space invaders.

geez. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

Why are the range animations basically still from the year 2000 the spelleffect changes don't help at all.