I mean...this is the US we're talking about (at least in part). We don't have a remotely good track record when it comes to supporting self determination or "nation building".
It's a super nice sentiment and all, but it's just a touch messier and more complex in reality. You're not exactly gonna get a ton of folks excited to sign up and go fight on behalf of another country they have no connection to in a war they don't care about over a cause they may not support.
Seems like that kind of support wouldn't be remotely viable somewhere like Taiwan given its dramatically different geographic situation. Not to mention the differences between the Chinese and Russian military. Unless China has similarly largely been successful in convincing the world that their military is a serious, credible threat when it's actually a bunch of drunk guys who have spend the past few decades selling supplies and parts on the black market.
It's just so simple /5head
I mean in an ideal world yes, but I don't think that's remotely practical without -
1. Causing a lot of domestic economic pain that will make justifying continued support increasingly difficult.
2. Potentially provoke armed conflict via a blockade, nobody wants a hot war but people do dumb shit
3. What coalition of friendly states there would have a meaningful impact? Japan's military is still defensive, though that might change. South Korea has North Korea to worry about and doesn't want to further piss off China if they can avoid it. SEA nations are unlikely to all jump on board, even if there's a fair chance of getting support from our "western" nations down there like AUS/NZ.
Will it all also hurt China too? Absolutely. But as we've seen, China is pretty cool with going with extreme measures to maintain control over their population. Including rolling out tanks to intimidate people trying to get their money outta banks, IIRC.
so whats your solution just let Taiwan fold to an imperialist autocratic china with millions put into gulags?
I'd like to think that if the UK got invaded by x the US would pump us full of arms and aggressively pressure our enemy with soft or hard power.
Like what we are doing with Ukraine.
I don't have one, and I don't pretend to. Don't get me wrong, I support what you just argued for! But I have no illusions that it would be remotely anywhere near as effective as it has been in Ukraine, which is the unique beneficiary of having an extremely deeply incompetant and corrupt country invading it.
Well, the UK is part of NATO so that would trigger Article 5. Our treaty obligations are different based on each nation.
And from a purely unemotional and PoV, and this is shitty to say but true: Not all countries are equal and are worth equal risk/investment. It sucks, but that's the reality of it.
Wouldn’t be accurate, Alaska or Hawaii would have to have ALREADY broken off about a century ago and no one living has every been a part of them being part of the US for the US to say they want them back or that they were still part of the US despite not being in any way for their entire lives.
And in that hypothetical, the US would be the bad guys.
Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
"mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.
Also the analogy further doesn't make sense because China's current communist regime has never, at any point, governed Taiwan.
The United States government most certainly has governed Alaska and Hawaii.
The Chinese communists' claim to Taiwan is inherently illegitimate, much like China's government itself.
Yes and no. Taiwan should be free to govern itself and needs all the support it can get. At the same time, US intervention produces results like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Yes, Russia today is a deeply right-wing country in so many ways, and yet, this has not stopped the Chinese from supporting their government in the slightest. And not just the Chinese state, Russia and Putin are very widely admired and strongly supported by the Chinese public also, seemingly, as strongmen who are leading their people to strength and revanchism. And people who break away from their "consensus" on Russia are labeled and attacked as national traitors.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/b...-invasion.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/asia/...hnk/index.html
And they've also certainly not hesitated in eagerly spreading Russia's conspiracy theories on "biological weapon labs" in Ukraine:
https://www.newsweek.com/chinas-clai...online-1687169
https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...c4a20b7e018169
It's actually the more conservative and traditional KMT in Taiwan which seems to be the most "pro-China" and critical of America and Japan today:
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fro.../11/2003783335
China itself arguably stopped being a truly Marxist state long ago, it's more capitalist than Taiwan arguably, and its brand of nationalism is very much like that of Russia's, in fact. I read a comment online from someone who commented on China's disputes with neighbors, that it was ironic that an "anti-imperialist" power is basing its territorial and maritime claims mostly on the conquests of past Chinese empires.
Their recent talk of total "national rejuvenation" by reunifying with Taiwan, of avenging past humiliations and shame, and thereby restoring their ancient and supreme civilization to its former greatness and glory does not seem too progressive to me, but almost rather the exact opposite of what their ideology is supposed to teach.
This kind of growing and deeply embedded nationalism, and taught to their children from a very early age, is not necessarily reminiscent of revolutionary Maoism, but of sadly other things. Perhaps it is not so surprising that so many people in China casually deny the things which are happening inside their country, never mind attitudes towards Taiwan. I find it kind of sad that some countries easily become what they once might have hated not so long ago.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-power-in-full
Resolving the Taiwan question and realizing China's complete reunification is a shared aspiration of all the sons and daughters of the Chinese nation. It is indispensable for the realization of China's rejuvenation....The Chinese nation has achieved a historic transformation from standing upright to becoming prosperous and growing in strength, and national rejuvenation is driven by an unstoppable force. This marks a new starting point for reunification.Over its 5,000-year history, China has created a splendid culture that has shone throughout the world from past times to present, and has made an enormous contribution to human society. After a century of suffering and hardship, the nation has overcome humiliation, emerged from backwardness, and embraced boundless development opportunities. Now, it is striding towards the goal of national rejuvenation.
Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-08-17 at 04:21 AM.
"You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"
I have to support it, for the bullshit China is doing because Taiwan wishes to be a standalone nation, needs to stop. You can't, nor should you be permitted to rage and threat because you don't get your way. I'm looking at you as well, Russia.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Hawaii is a good example then because it was its own country but the United States forcibly took it over because of their natural resources and strategic positions. And just like Native Americans we are still denying them the rights of ownership to their land which we stole from them. I think at this point the whole good guy bad guy thing is for the main stream media there is no good guy in global politics it's all motivated by self interests mostly corporate or strategic.
Last edited by PC2; 2022-08-16 at 01:43 PM.
Nah they would simply disapprove of the CCP until the CCP gives its citizens all the modern human rights and liberties of a liberal democracy. Even mainland Chinese people will eventually demand their human rights and basic freedoms at some point, regardless of what happens with Taiwan.