[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Darththeo]

"those shows/movies are bad and have bad writing, but not the things you said, they are bad because other things that i can't talk about it"



Also, very hypocrite to say about "opinions" and "facts" when you in the beginning, said if they followed the original script the movie would be bad, as you said "predictable garbage". Like any movie that is predictable is automatically bad.

"Pizza is bad for you, but it isn't bad for you because it is a circle." There is no need for me to go through anything besides proving that pizza being a circle isn't why it is bad. Seriously, this is a nonsense attempt at an argument. I don't need to give a reason (despite giving you 2 for She-hulk) to explain why you are wrong in your stance. You complain about fictional fallacies others use, but have zero problems with garbage tier argument tactics.

I understand your complaints better than you do. And yes, you did. You complained that Strange was overshadowed by America because America beat Wanda. Do you not even remember the things you post now? Seriously, that's the only conclusion from that series of posts of yours.

[Surfd]

Right, so, how can she force America to her own universe....? they are in different universes, Wanda can't travel, and America can't as well because she don't control where to go, how we fix this narrative problem? we don't answer, don't think about it, just see the action and forget about it.

America can't control her power herself. That doesn't mean the summoned monster cant take control of her and force her to use it with much better success with it in control. Which is literally what it was in the process of doing when it almost had her in the opening scene.......

You are suggesting that...its better to shot the gun in her head than keep her at gunpoint? and you think its ridiculous to keep a kid alive? that went dark

Let me re-phrase my original analogy:
- America's power is a Car.
- America currently has the Keys, but she isn't great at driving her car yet.
- Wanda is a great driver, and wants to use the Car to go somewhere.

Which option makes more sense to someone in her situation:
- Wanda Forces America to drive the Car where Wanda wants to go against her will
or
- Wanda Takes the Keys from America and drives the Car there herself

IF you honestly expect me to believe that the first option is superior to the second option (especially considering Wanda is only interested in America because she has the Car, because the Car is what she wants), you are nuts.

America is the only one in the universe (how? is that even possible? dunno keep going)

America is like that because that's literally the backstory of the character in the entirety of the marvel universe. How is it possible? Ask the people who created the character, but I am pretty sure the answer is: Because she was born that way. She's "special" because she is the ONLY version of herself in the entire multiverse. There are no multiversal doubles of her. Asking why is about as pointless as asking why Kryptonians roid out after being exposed to different types of sunlight. They just do. She just is.

[Syegfryed]

"Pizza is bad for you, but it isn't bad for you because it is a circle." There is no need for me to go through anything besides proving that pizza being a circle isn't why it is bad? Seriously, this is a nonsense attempt at an argument.

Finally snap it?

I understand your complaints better than you do. And yes, you did. You complained that Strange was overshadowed by America because America beat her. Do you not even remember the things you post now?

All i said were facts, Strange was overshadowed in his own movie, and Wanda, the villain, was defeated by America. You can't be against that, but you need to be against what i say, and thats why i phrase like that - not saying it was good or bad - just to see the meltdown and desperation to "correct me"

[Darththeo]

All i said were facts, Strange was overshadowed in his own movie, and Wanda, the villain, was defeated by America. You can't be against that, but you need to be against what i say, and thats why i phrase like that - not saying it was good or bad - just to see the meltdown and desperation to "correct me"

Strange being "overshadowed" in his movie is literally not a fact. That 100% your opinion.

So, yes, you can be corrected on an opinion.

And I noticed you avoid the conclusion from those "facts"; that you would have rather Strange beat Wanda.

[rhorle]

Risks by risks, Strange should have killed America anyway so there is no risks, its dumb as fuck, but its funny when people come up with nonsense like this to pretend its totally makes sense

Son? Are you pretending to be more father now? Lol. Of course she can force her to open a portal, did you not watch the movie? Strange 616 should have killed her but didn't want to. It isn't dumb that he didn't because he was staying true to his character. There are plenty of situations like this in books and film but again that isn't bad writing. It is just you not liking the direction the story takes.

[Syegfryed]

America can't control her power herself. That doesn't mean the summoned monster cant take control of her and force her to use it with much better success with it in control.

If she can do that, which is not hinted or established in no way shape or form, then there is no need to kill her, at all.

Which option makes more sense to someone in her situation:
- Wanda Forces America to drive the Car where Wanda wants to go against her will
or
- Wanda Takes the Keys from America and drives the Car there herself

you mean, Wanda take the keys, shot the kid in the head and throw her body over the car right? because that is what she is going to. Also, why do you think it would be harder to just control her? like, she would do just fine by bringing herself to wanda, movie does not imply its harder or worse, at least she have one less body in her count which the movie flip flop a lot if she is super evil or not super evil like when she could ahve killed wong and Strange many times.

America is like that because that's literally the backstory of the character in the entirety of the marvel universe. How is it possible? Ask the people who created the character, but I am pretty sure the answer is: Because she was born that way. She's "special" because she is the ONLY version of herself in the entire multiverse. There are no multiversal doubles of her. Asking why is about as pointless as asking why Kryptonians roid out after being exposed to different types of sunlight. They just do. She just is.

I will answer with one even better: they retconned it, because they knew it was bullshit and it makes no sense with how new timelines and multiverses are born from it

funny isn't? there is variants of her in other stories and i think they were part of secret wars as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Strange being "overshadowed" in his movie is literally not a fact. That 100% your opinion.
.

Nope its a fact, Wanda steal the movie, and i think the actress did a wonderfull job. Strange arc is literally a rehash from what they did to him before, he "not holding the knife, he already went trough that arc when he gave up the time stone and let other people save the world instead of himself. So, again, much shit to say about "re-doing" or "predictable" stuff hun?

And I noticed you avoid the conclusion from those "facts"; that you would have rather Strange beat Wanda.

Hum, not rly, i would rather have then both team up and fight the bad guy, like it was intended.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

By your own words you are here so "other people reading the forum won’t be misinformed by incorrect statements", Where are you when people were making shit up on their headcanons to explain away the bad writing of the show? nowhere to be found, you don't call then out by bring up incorrect statements, since the show never confirmed that, and is at best a wet dream of assumption? seems like you are selective hum?

Mate I didn’t reply to any of your headcanon either as I don't care about head canon fights compared to people just missing what is explicitly covered in a movie/show, some of the stuff you said was wrong some of the stuff the people replying to you was wrong but I couldn’t care less about both sides fighting over assumptions.

If I wanted to be a contrarian or join an echo camber I’ve had pages and pages to do so, again your not a victim stop acting like one.

[Darththeo]

Nope its a fact, Wanda steal the movie, and i think the actress did a wonderfull job. Strange arc is literally a rehash from what they did to him before, he "not holding the knife, he already went trough that arc when he gave up the time stone and let other people save the world instead of himself. So, again, much shit to say about "re-doing" or "predictable" stuff hun?

Note: Syeg did not watch the first Strange or Infinity War.

Hum, not rly, i would rather have then both team up and fight the bad guy, like it was intended.

So a completely different movie.

[UnifiedDivide]

/look at thread title
/look at thread content
/blink

Time to just put someone on ignore so I can't contribute to such massive derailments.

[Syegfryed]

Time to just put someone on ignore so I can't contribute to such massive derailments.

>could simple ignore and not derail the thread
>instead derail the thread even more.

[Koriani]

Yeah...I spoke a page too soon, thanking people for staying on topic at least..

And on that off-topic - here's one for ya:

Wanda's actions don't have to make any sense at all, no matter how one breaks it down. She was 100% corrupted and under the control of the Darkhold. Darkhold don't care about logic. Darkhold don't give a SHIT what is easier to do, or what makes the most sense, or what could be done to achieve the same goal (for Wanda) without killing America. Irrelevant. Even if America had said, "Here I give this to you, you don't have to kill me..." Darkhold would have made Wanda believe she had to kill her anyway. Because that's the Darkhold's own purpose.

I mean that /was/ the point and purpose of the Darkhold, itself. The point that makes no character development happening in WandaVision mean jack - because the Darkhold auto-magically negates all that by possessing and subsuming the Freewill of its reader.

Of course movie-Wanda wouldn't be happy with her kids in some other multi-verse; that's logic the Darkhold wouldn't allow to work. You don't have to spend two brain cells trying to 'figure out', or justify, anything Wanda says or does in the movie. Because Darkhold. Any lapse in logic, anything her friends said that would have 'made sense' and 'worked' for a 'normal person', was never going to work with Movie-Wanda because she's already under the possession of the Darkhold.

So its not 'bad writing' - its writing a plot that fits that narrative (of possession by evil book) of the movie. It doesn't need to worry about that character reasoning making sense - because in the end, its an evil/demonic book doing the 'thinking'. Now - Whether you think that's a stupid plot device, or a writing cop-out, is another topic But that doesn't make the plot build around that device, 'bad writing.'

I mean I'm not saying its great writing. At all. I felt a little miffed myself that I wasted the time (and superhero burnout) watching WandaVision only to have all of that be pointless because Movie-Wanda-Darkhold (and nothing else about the show, like Vision, Agatha, etc. had any relevance or mention). And MoM, as a movie, was for me, at most, a 'meh' movie. Perfectly fine, but nothing more.

But people doing the back and forth over Wanda's lack of logic/insight/normal reactions in MoM makes no sense to me - because she was, every second, already subsumed into the pages of the Darkhold. You could have had her 'actual, lore-correct, kids' standing right in front of her, and it wouldn't have mattered. Because she had already fully bought into the delusion the Darkhold was feeding her. (Which, at the very least, is an accurate portrayal of people who are having psychotic delusions. Logic is irrelevant, the delusion has its own.)

[Svifnymr]

There are tons of villains that fight each other. We don't see that much in the MCU, the closest is in What If?

Yeah, I just meant it in reference to defending Agatha. No need to make Agatha out to be a good guy, they can both be bad guys.

There are stories where Dr. Doom fights other villains. I think Magneto does a few times too. The funniest thing is with the DC and Marvel crossovers where you have Joker team up with Red Skull and then Joker finds out Red Skull is a nazi and decides that is time to fight him. Villains fighting villains work can work well in movies or shows.

Honestly, part of me is hoping when Dr Doom makes his MCU debut he is able to show how powerful he is by defeating villains the heroes struggle with.

I think MCU actually has the problem of killing off it's villains. Loki lasted longest, but Ultron was never killed off in comics or whatnot. Doom, hopefully, isn't just tossed in jail or killed, but if the heroes win it's because they foiled his scheme this time, but they can't touch him personally.

[Biomega]

I think MCU actually has the problem of killing off it's villains. Loki lasted longest, but Ultron was never killed off in comics or whatnot. Doom, hopefully, isn't just tossed in jail or killed, but if the heroes win it's because they foiled his scheme this time, but they can't touch him personally.

This is a general problem in (superhero) comics, though. How often did they have to go "haha 'twas only a clone/robot/illusion/etc." on a villain because they have to be defeated, but can't be killed off. Or something like Batman refusing to kill the Joker, only for him to break out of Arkham fifty different times (and let's not get into the cost of human lives this entails...).

I'm not sure a cinematic universe has that luxury without it coming off as uncomfortably, gratingly contrived. Loki is already hard at that border, where his constant he's dead OR IS HE?! shtick has become a meme onto itself.

[paxen]

Rewatched a couple of more episodes so up to episode 3 now.

Yeah, we're being gaslit by these braindead zombies, these trolls. She-hulk isn't *great* TV, it's true. But, like the MCU stuff in general, it's entertaining and a good watch. MCU tv shows took a step down in ambition and a step up in quality in 2022: Moon Knight, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk don't attempt the more complex story beats that Wandavision, Loki and F/WS tried and in the end failed at, they instead focus on finding new ways to entertain. She-Hulk does have a several moments that don't land, but they throw a lot of varied stuff at us - and a lot of it does hit, enough so that it's on the level of the other 2022 shows (moon knight and ms marvel), and better than what came before.

Wong, Blonsky and Dennis Bukowski are all entertaining guest stars. Mr Immortal and the wedding episode were low points the first time through, but there's still Madisynn, the retreat, Daredevil and then the most comic book accurate finale Marvel has ever made.

[Syegfryed]

MCU tv shows took a step down in ambition and a step up in quality in 2022: Moon Knight, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk don't attempt the more complex story beats that Wandavision, Loki and F/WS tried and in the end failed at, they instead focus on finding new ways to entertain. She-Hulk does have a several moments that don't land, but they throw a lot of varied stuff at us - and a lot of it does hit, enough so that it's on the level of the other 2022 shows (moon knight and ms marvel), and better than what came before.

ITs what i said previously, Marvel is focusing on quantity over quality. A lot of shows/movies in a short period of time, to target different audiences trying to increase income(instead of fewer shows for everyone), it ends up decreasing quality, with shows more or less rushed and unpolished(seeing how the CGI is lackluster sometimes).

I saw an intervew saying one a person who worked on ECHO, i think it was the producer, saying the show was rushed, even with the delay, and she would make better if it had more time

Wong, Blonsky and Dennis Bukowski are all entertaining guest stars. Mr Immortal and the wedding episode were low points the first time through, but there's still Madisynn, the retreat, Daredevil and then the most comic book accurate finale Marvel has ever made.

Mr Immortal rly was a pointless thing to have in the show, like, the people there didn't even seen to be that much of the age difference to be married with the same guy for years.

Wong, Blonsky and Murdock were definitely highlights, though i dread his tv-show if tis going to be mroe like the netflix or mroe like disney+.

[rhorle]

I saw an intervew saying one a person who worked on ECHO, i think it was the producer, saying the show was rushed, even with the delay, and she would make better if it had more time

She said she would do things differently if she had all the time in the world. Not that it would be better or imply that the current show isn't good. It was just a different process then she used on Better Call Saul because they had deadlines to meet and she wasn't part of the project from the start.

“It was really about finding a process in the moment that allowed me to get to some deadlines and, you know, be a little more flexible than I would have been if, you know, if I had all the time in the world I would have done it a little bit differently.”

Mr Immortal rly was a pointless thing to have in the show, like, the people there didn't even seen to be that much of the age difference to be married with the same guy for years.

Why would they have to be a vastly different age? He could just keep moving up in age over the years so all would be near the same age even though he married them when they were different ages. Only one was said to be an 18 year marriage. The same one who gave birth to his son. It is even possible he was married to more then one person at the same time. Normal people manage to do that all the time.

[Surfd]

at least she have one less body in her count which the movie flip flop a lot if she is super evil or not super evil like when she could ahve killed wong and Strange many times.

Yes, because I am absolutely convinced that Wanda gives a flying fuck about "body count" in that movie. Wanda. The super-witch driven batshit insane by a tome of pure chaos who is literally willing to do ANYTHING, including destroy other realities, in order to get what she wants. The Wanda who casually tossed a giant invisible murder demon into downtown New York, casually murdered dozens of sorcerers at Kamar Taj, and straight up destroyed the home base of an alternate-timeline Illuminati by forcefully possessing the body of another version of herself and brutally murdering multiple heroes from that timeline? That Wanda? That Wanda would 100% wring America out like a sponge and toss her desiccated husk in the disposal without a second thought.

[Syegfryed]

Yes, because I am absolutely convinced that Wanda gives a flying fuck about "body count" in that movie. Wanda. The super-witch driven batshit insane by a tome of pure evil who is literally willing to do ANYTHING, including destroy other realities, in order to get what she wants.

Yes, she, many times, could have killed Wong or Strange, instead, she just toss then across the room many times. Or, like she said previously, send monsters because she was being merciful. yeah, crap

Don't try to explain away the movie dumbness with more dumbness, there is the movie thread for that

[Surfd]

Yes, she, many times, could have killed Wong or Strange, instead, she just toss then across the room many times. Or, like she said previously, send monsters because she was being merciful. yeah, crap

Don't try to explain away the movie dumbness with more dumbness, there is the movie thread for that

Going to be 100% serious here, but: Do you even understand the basic fundamentals of what makes a good "super hero action movie" at all?

Like, for fuck sakes, 99% of super hero movies are literally built around shit like "Hero and villain have pointlessly drawn out fight scene for dramatic / entertainment effect" because that's literally what people come to watch the damn things for. If Superman or Batman were actually real, most of their actual villain encounters would more realistically end with the hero oneshotting the villain before the guy even realizes what happened.

Yes, Wanda could probably have killed Strange or Wong several times in various scenes in the movie. Likewise, Wong or Strange could probably have done the same in return as well. Either thing happening would have made a really, really fucking boring movie though.

[Syegfryed]

Yes, Wanda could probably have killed Strange or Wong several times in various scenes in the movie. Likewise, Wong or Strange could probably have done the same in return as well. Either thing happening would have made a really, really fucking boring movie though.

You are telling me super hero action movies need to be dumbed down, made nonsensical and/or retarded to be good? Its funny that when one argument fail its changed, now its not the movie that was dumb, its just that all super hero movies are dumb. There is a limit on suspension of disbelief that when you cross it become shit and immersion breaking. If it was just one or two times, ok, but it happens A LOT. You could give multiple reasons of why Wanda didn't kill then in the narrative. If the only reason she didn't was "because the movie would end or it would be boring" then its shit. You can make a compelling fight with stakes without making the villains morons who contradict themselves.

So this isn't me who do not understand, its y'all who are fine with low tier/mediocre things.