Blizzard finally understood the value of casual players having more access to gear.

[Osmeric]

Good? I never get this mentality that I should desperately want people who fundamentally dislike the game to stay.

And this is the rabid hardcore mindset in a nutshell. Better the game die than give in to the casuals.

[Soeroah]

I wish outdoor gear was as good as it was in Legion, where casual players could fairly easily get into normal (and even heroic) raids and actually have a decent chance of success.

[ellieg]

And this is the rabid hardcore mindset in a nutshell. Better the game die than give in to the casuals.

What are we on now? Year 18 of the game "dying"?

[Osmeric]

What are we on now? Year 18 of the game "dying"?

It's 90+% of the way there.

[Shinchi Migi]

I'd like to give credit to developers for finally getting in sync with casual player base. Couple things (among other) that stands out.

• Tier set forge
• Uncapped valor S4

These and other few good changes indicates that Blizzard finally understands that removing previously existing briers is a good thing. What can casual player do with more gear?

• Stay subscribed.
• Go do solo older content.
• Join mythic plus groups.
• Engage in activities that has power limits (brawlers guild, etc)
• Have more motivation in general to engage in current content including raiding.

And because power rocks, player can finally do whatever they want with it. It feels good to be powerful rather than memeing around like a scrub.

LoL. Ummmm No. I dropped my sub with Blizzard back in may of 2021. Just sticking around to see if DF will be any good. Still nothing impressive to pull me back in.

[Celement]

And this is the rabid hardcore mindset in a nutshell. Better the game die than give in to the casuals.

Yep it dies either way from my perspective.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Well, that sort of depends. If the so called "dad" has played and been around wow for 15+ years, chances are he can probably reach pretty far in m+ with less playtime than others. This comes down to knowledge of the game and how to execute them. Some people clear everything quickly, others do it slower but clears it. And so on.

Yeah this initial investment is a big thing a lot of people miss, kind of like wealth in real life. Basically, you put in the time *at some point* to learn the basic skills of this game that you honestly probably don't even think about/realize (not just dodging fire, but learning what it actually means to do competitive dps, always be casting, using defensives, etc). I think it was Preach who had a funny video about this a few years back with this moonkin who had this fancy UI and stuff and then was like literally not casting spells 30% of an easy fight lol. Just never occurred to him to do certain things good players take for granted.

All that being sad, though, it is definitely true that people don't seem to get how little time it takes to "gear up" and stuff now once you've crossed that initial barrier. I played several hours a night the first two weeks of the patch, but now it is probably 5 hours a week to fill out vault slots and that's it. Last season I had 3 characters above 3k score playing 5-10hrs a week (and not raiding).

[neik]

I don't think, that these things alone are enough evidence, that Blizzard have finally understood value of casual players.

Tier forging and having unlimited valor cap at season start is definitely new cocaine for many players. I don't expect for it to carry on to next expansion, but this newly found intensity is pretty great. I would personally love to see many cool thorgast abilities being brought to light. Imagine priest having your fade illusion to tank for you, or many other things that could benefit casual players with absolutely no cost.

I mean, running a SPriest that had 200% haste consistently was the opposite of boring for me. Corruption was, hands down, the most fun I ever had in this game (especially once they added the vendor). It's a pity they yeeted it in favor of just removing the concept of keeping gear interesting.

Corruption was very enjoyable and the vendor they added later on where player could actually work towards their goals, was absolute win in my book. The only disapproval I've had with corruption is "high risk" scenario and lack of care in dealing with cc mechanics, and/or responding to it.

M+ is absolutely not casual. Especially if you lag behind on your RaiderIO score.
>inb4 get a guild

Mplus is more of a personal voyage rather than some end goal "complete key level 30, or else you are a bad person". Casual people can still do their keys, your key level will reflect your current confidence/competence level, which can always be improved with tools Blizzard provides. Example giving you unlimited cap at season start so you can drown yourself in +2 bracket while collecting all your bis/tier and upgrading your gear with +7 so you can move forward with more confidence.

[Osmeric]

Yep it dies either way from my perspective.

I expect if and when it comes to that, the corporate overlords fire the current dev team and do a reboot, or sell the game to someone who does that. Admittedly, the most likely outcome is WoW transformed into a gatcha monstrosity.

[MoanaLisa]

I thought that it would be pretty easy to understand. If you play a game casually it's like anything else in life you do casually. You don't take it overly seriously, you don't go the extra mile, you go for the low hanging fruit. If there's too much work or hassle in the way of having fun you probably won't bother with it.

My point was that you get to decide how you play. It's not for everyone else to decide and try to characterize every player like they are some insect pinned to a board with a classification label next to it. It's how you view your own game.

On topic: As for whether or not Blizzard's developers understand and have started to treasure their 'casual' audience talk about it any time except during the last patch.

[Loveliest]

When people ask for casual content it's something outside of the 3 main activities. But whatever floats your boat.

[Echo of Soul]

My point was that you get to decide how you play. It's not for everyone else to decide and try to characterize every player like they are some insect pinned to a board with a classification label next to it. It's how you view your own game.

On topic: As for whether or not Blizzard's developers understand and have started to treasure their 'casual' audience talk about it any time except during the last patch.

Agreed. If "casual friendly systems" aren't in place for the entirety of an expansion they don't really count.
Perhaps that's what the game needs, something that's constant and there every single patch that allows for casual players to work towards something worthwhile.
What we've seen post MOP are different solutions every time, often introduced at the end of the expansions.

[Nymrohd]

What are we on now? Year 18 of the game "dying"?

We got to the point when they had to admit they could not sustain instanced content for two factions and were forced to allow cross faction. Let's not pretend the game's population is healthy.

[ceall]

We got to the point when they had to admit they could not sustain instanced content for two factions and were forced to allow cross faction. Let's not pretend the game's population is healthy.

Just because one side (alliance) is underrepresented in competitive pve situations doesn't mean the game's population is unhealthy. Let's not pretend that either without having 1st hand proof. Also cross-faction play has been asked for since forever. It is just now that they finally change their narrow-minded design philosophies from 2 decades ago.

[arkanon]

Just because one side (alliance) is underrepresented in competitive pve situations doesn't mean the game's population is unhealthy. Let's not pretend that either without having 1st hand proof. Also cross-faction play has been asked for since forever. It is just now that they finally change their narrow-minded design philosophies from 2 decades ago.

The question is, why now? Why make a change people have wanted "forever" now, if not because people are having major issues forming groups, due to dwindling player count? Im not saying the game is dying, im saying there is plenty of evidence that a LOT of players and raid groups have ended because maintaining a roster has become near impossible.

[crusadernero]

The question is, why now? Why make a change people have wanted "forever" now, if not because people are having major issues forming groups, due to dwindling player count? Im not saying the game is dying, im saying there is plenty of evidence that a LOT of players and raid groups have ended because maintaining a roster has become near impossible.

This is only my experience but going from my alliance main to any of my horde alts.. The difference was HUGE. So much that I dropped my main on alliance and focused on a horde char.

Something had to be done.

[Cynical Asshole]

The question is, why now? Why make a change people have wanted "forever" now, if not because people are having major issues forming groups, due to dwindling player count? Im not saying the game is dying, im saying there is plenty of evidence that a LOT of players and raid groups have ended because maintaining a roster has become near impossible.

Raids have become so hard that people are just bowing out and focusing on more casual content like M+. That's why raid guilds have difficulties keeping people.

Unknown if Hazzyboy is aware of this or he will continue to make raids harder and harder and making even more people not want to engage with raiding. Maybe his ultimate goal is to make raiding available only to the 10%.

[crusadernero]

Just because one side (alliance) is underrepresented in competitive pve situations doesn't mean the game's population is unhealthy. Let's not pretend that either without having 1st hand proof. Also cross-faction play has been asked for since forever. It is just now that they finally change their narrow-minded design philosophies from 2 decades ago.

It was a pure horror show on alliance side. It was bad in every way. On horde side it was like playing a fresh new game.

[arkanon]

This is only my experience but going from my alliance main to any of my horde alts.. The difference was HUGE. So much that I dropped my main on alliance and focused on a horde char.

Something had to be done.

That doesnt answer the question though - why NOW? This has been a problem for a VERY long time, why make this change now?

[crusadernero]

Raids have become so hard that people are just bowing out and focusing on more casual content like M+. That's why raid guilds have difficulties keeping people.

Unknown if Hazzyboy is aware of this or he will continue to make raids harder and harder and making even more people not want to engage with raiding. Maybe his ultimate goal is to make raiding available only to the 10%.

I agree. Raids have become to difficult and LFR serves no desent feature for guilds. Even normal is getting rather difficult compared to how it used to be. Naturally, people cant be bothered. m+ is easier option.