FFXIV Criticisms

[NineSpine]

Were you a new player?

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If there are parts I'd suggest looking into first, it'd probably be the immediate start. You're overloaded with stuff. Markers, hunt logs, potentially a maze like city, the concept of aetherytes, yadda yadda. Followed by the stretch around 30-40, I think? The quests right before you fight Titan? And then post-ARR. 2.1 to 2.55, I will insist, is particularly heavy. I don't know if there's much they could feasibly do to streamline it, but that's what I would look at.

I just don't think there's a neat way to simply cut things. It needs an actual ground up rewrite and post-ARR needs to be smashed down to 1/10th its current length.

[Yarathir]

I just don't think there's a neat way to simply cut things. It needs an actual ground up rewrite and post-ARR needs to be smashed down to 1/10th its current length.

Yeah, you can't just cut and truncate willy-nilly. It's not easy. A lot of the stuff in the post-ARR patches is actually very important, but it's just drawn out in such a way that you can't just go "ok we remove a whole chunk of the quests involved FIXED!"

[MsSideEye]

Not sure if you read this before you posted, but like it's just 100% factually wrong. FF14 has UI elements, special flashy effects, achievements, etc. It's literally identical. Again this is the bias. You can't stick your head in the sand in FF14 and cry foul in WoW in this context..

Except FF14 doesn't have titles and mounts that are tied directly to finishing X on Difficulty Y and are gone by the end of the year. 14 doesn't have a dedicated part of their UI showing how high you've gone, how fast you've gone, and then rewards you for going beyond that. 14 doesn't make it so that when you que up for dungeons, it switches what your baseline que is depend on your item level.

I won't deny, there are some bais. I was burned by WoW LOOOOOOOOOOOONG before I actually left it because of the Blitzchung event. But it has to be pointed out that WoW has cultivated the 'Gogogo, now now now' mindset with their design and encouragement of the player, where logging in even has things like 'Hey, the Mythic Plus season is starting up!' and stuff like that. Even if you don't pursue it yourself, WoW DOES encourage you to go out for that content in a way FF14 doesn't.

Ok, but like FF14 has achievements, titles, mounts, armor particle effects, and unique weapon effects for players that do those pieces of content as well.

Nearly all the ones that are put into game like that are evergreen. The unique Alexander Mount in Heavensward is still there, still farmable today. There's no rush or pressure on me to get it, because I know it'll be there for me for as long the game itself exists. I can never get the Grove Warden or the Violet Spellwing, because I had to be there for it, pushing in the higher difficulties of content before that content goes away.

About the only thing similar that WoW and FF14 has in availability and the pressure of making sure you get it is the PVP mounts for being the best, and I thought that was a stupid system no matter what.

[Tommi]

This is the worst stab, ever, at FFXIV. Funny..but ridiculous. The only game that is predatory as fuck is WoW. It sure as hell ain't FFXIV. But damn good try. Made me laugh.

Bruh.

https://store.finalfantasyxiv.com/ffxivstore/en-us/

[MsSideEye]

Bruh.

https://store.finalfantasyxiv.com/ffxivstore/en-us/

Unless you to subscribe to the same theory of logic someone else pointed out of 'More stuff = More Predatory', then linking to the store page does nothing to prove you right or him wrong.

Honestly, about the only thing I'd say would be really that predatory in that store would honestly be the pots of dye, since there is a way to get those in game, but they're obscenely hard to get. Otherwise you got old event mounts/emotes/glam that's sold for cheaper then what you'd buy the store original stuff for, the vast majority of just about everything baring the big time guys like the Whale are cheaper than what you'd get in WoW, and there's no token that's equivalent to a subscription that you can buy that completely upends the currency of the game, making it so that buying the token yourself is the only way to stay ahead.

Yeah, I'm going to lean towards FFXIV being leds predatory.

[Yarathir]

Bruh.

https://store.finalfantasyxiv.com/ffxivstore/en-us/

and
explain yourself

[NineSpine]

Yeah, you can't just cut and truncate willy-nilly. It's not easy. A lot of the stuff in the post-ARR patches is actually very important, but it's just drawn out in such a way that you can't just go "ok we remove a whole chunk of the quests involved FIXED!"

My usual recommendation for people is to do the post-ARR one chapter at a time and then go do something else between chapters to break it up.

[Grinning Serpent]

Were you a new player?

Yeah. I always roll a new toon for every expansion launch/prepatch. Sometimes I'll go back to one of my old characters from a billion years ago, but with all of the achievements and such being account-wide, there's no real reason not to get the new player experience each time.

[Yarathir]

Yeah. I always roll a new toon for every expansion launch/prepatch. Sometimes I'll go back to one of my old characters from a billion years ago, but with all of the achievements and such being account-wide, there's no real reason not to get the new player experience each time.

No, I mean: was that the first time you played WoW? But the rest of your post already tells me otherwise.

I asked because doing the current starting experience as a returning player isn't the same as being actually new to the game.

[Grinning Serpent]

But all this training you are talking about is simply unnecessary. The system in place already works fine. The vast majority of random groups go incredibly well.

Run ACT and check the logs from groups occasionally and tell me that with a straight face. One or two players who give a damn/actually understand what they're doing literally carrying the rest of the group isn't really "going incredibly well."

That training would also ensure that players aren't looking at 12+ buttons and going "err, what?" like in your Shadowlands example. I'm pretty sure I only had like six or seven buttons on my warrior when I was killing stuff in Azshara for goblins, though...

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No, I mean: was that the first time you played WoW? But the rest of your post already tells me otherwise.

I asked because doing the current starting experience as a returning player isn't the same as being actually new to the game.

Yeah, that's fair.

[Arlette]

Run ACT and check the logs from groups occasionally and tell me that with a straight face. One or two players who give a damn/actually understand what they're doing literally carrying the rest of the group isn't really "going incredibly well."

Who...cares? No really, who gives a damn who in random duty finder is not doing top parsing damage? What are you going to do, save a minute each run by being as toxic as possible?

No thanks I'd rather just have a fun easy time and take another 4-5 minutes.

The mentality of yours is exactly why they don't officially support addons. And I wholly support punishing people like you who would act out your weird min/maxing urges of random content to other people in the duty finder.

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Unless you to subscribe to the same theory of logic someone else pointed out of 'More stuff = More Predatory', then linking to the store page does nothing to prove you right or him wrong.

Honestly, about the only thing I'd say would be really that predatory in that store would honestly be the pots of dye, since there is a way to get those in game, but they're obscenely hard to get. Otherwise you got old event mounts/emotes/glam that's sold for cheaper then what you'd buy the store original stuff for, the vast majority of just about everything baring the big time guys like the Whale are cheaper than what you'd get in WoW, and there's no token that's equivalent to a subscription that you can buy that completely upends the currency of the game, making it so that buying the token yourself is the only way to stay ahead.

Yeah, I'm going to lean towards FFXIV being leds predatory.

The inclusion of a token makes WoW more predatory just immediately regardless of everything else.

[Ghost of Cow]

Who...cares? No really, who gives a damn who in random duty finder is not doing top parsing damage? What are you going to do, save a minute each run by being as toxic as possible?

No thanks I'd rather just have a fun easy time and take another 4-5 minutes.

The mentality of yours is exactly why they don't officially support addons. And I wholly support punishing people like you who would act out your weird min/maxing urges of random content to other people in the duty finder.

Talk about being randomly aggressive for no reason. (Kind of a theme around here)

They never said anything about saying anything to anyone.

[Arlette]

Talk about being randomly aggressive for no reason. (Kind of a theme around here)

They never said anything about saying anything to anyone.

Oh just stop with this ridiculous online tone policing nonsense. Especially when you and the other two post incredibly inflammatory exaggerated nonsense constantly and then get upset when the pushback uses the exact lack of tact as your comments.

Also I love that you just flatout ignore the logical conclusion to their consistent argument that we should be caring about the parsing of random people in the duty finder is to support having those people be told that they are doing badly.

But tell me, what is the point in bringing up all this handwringing about parses of random people in the duty finder then?

Grinning Serpent's entire rant about this topic just reads to me that he got into a group for like Dead Ends or Troia and had a wipe once or twice and then decided to extrapolate an entire argument on the entire random duty finder system based off it.

[Ghost of Cow]

Oh just stop with this ridiculous online tone policing nonsense. Especially when you and the other two post incredibly inflammatory exaggerated nonsense constantly and then get upset when the pushback uses the exact lack of tact as your comments.

Also I love that you just flatout ignore the logical conclusion to their consistent argument that we should be caring about the parsing of random people in the duty finder is to support having those people be told that they are doing badly.

But tell me, what is the point in bringing up all this handwringing about parses of random people in the duty finder then?

Grinning Serpent's entire rant about this topic just reads to me that he got into a group for like Dead Ends or Troia and had a wipe once or twice and then decided to extrapolate an entire argument on the entire random duty finder system based off it.

The entire conversation was about the game teaching players enough. They disagreed and just brought up the parsing as an example.

Nothing was ever said about actually yelling at other players, or anything else. That is COMPLETELY your own fabrication in your mind.

[Arlette]

The entire conversation was about the game teaching players enough. They disagreed and just brought up the parsing as an example.

Nothing was ever said about actually yelling at other players, or anything else. That is COMPLETELY your own fabrication in your mind.

Cool thanks for your incredibly disingenuous framing of the topic.

I love that you ignored my entire post to focus on the last sentence, too.

Well done.

[MsSideEye]

The inclusion of a token makes WoW more predatory just immediately regardless of everything else.

I don't disagree, though I think it's predatory mostly because of what it's done to the in game economy more than anything else, and the fact that it was explicitly done because WoW wanted some of those gold makers money instead of, you know, banning things like gold selling/trading.

[Ghost of Cow]

Cool thanks for your incredibly disingenuous framing of the topic.

I love that you ignored my entire post to focus on the last sentence, too.

Well done.

Um, you're the one literally making things up to complain about. Nothing about what you ranted about was ever even said.

[NineSpine]

Run ACT and check the logs from groups occasionally and tell me that with a straight face. One or two players who give a damn/actually understand what they're doing literally carrying the rest of the group isn't really "going incredibly well."

If the content gets completed without wipes, it does go well. Being bitter and resentful that someone else isn't doing as much damage as you isn't the same as a run going poorly.

That training would also ensure that players aren't looking at 12+ buttons and going "err, what?" like in your Shadowlands example. I'm pretty sure I only had like six or seven buttons on my warrior when I was killing stuff in Azshara for goblins, though...

You gain abilities incredibly slowly in FF14. You are many, many, many hours deep before you have 12 abilities.

[Yarathir]

Thank god mods are still frowned upon in an official capacity. Deliberate griefing/AFKing/auto-attacking is one thing, but I sure am glad I can't get any epeen stroking Samurai in my groups harassing the Bard for not doing max damage in an early Heavensward dungeon.

[Arlette]

Run ACT and check the logs from groups occasionally and tell me that with a straight face. One or two players who give a damn/actually understand what they're doing literally carrying the rest of the group isn't really "going incredibly well."

That training would also ensure that players aren't looking at 12+ buttons and going "err, what?" like in your Shadowlands example. I'm pretty sure I only had like six or seven buttons on my warrior when I was killing stuff in Azshara for goblins, though...

In what universe is this example happening in FF14.

Where are people going, 'Whelp I now have 12 more abilities and don't know what I'm doing?'

The only ones I can think of are the people who skip, which is nearly universally frowned upon and doing so makes that your own problem. In no world are you leveling up fast enough that you're suddenly having 12 new abilities and are confused as to how to play.

You compare much, much later game stuff in FF14, having that many buttons, with leveling up a Goblin in Azshara, at the very beginning of the game.

Come on now lol

It's exactly the kind of wholly disingenuous comparisons like this that people consider you a bad faith actor in this discussion.

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I don't disagree, though I think it's predatory mostly because of what it's done to the in game economy more than anything else, and the fact that it was explicitly done because WoW wanted some of those gold makers money instead of, you know, banning things like gold selling/trading.

Oh yeah I was including all the reasons and ramifications of its inclusion in my statement, but you are right.

Blizzard just wanted part of the honey pot instead of banning it all together.