FFXIV Criticisms

[Myradin]

When I think of impeccable world design, I’m more inclined to get excited over dark souls, deus ex or good ol’ fallout. Not gonna defend the disconnecting feelings of ff14, but wow being the “it just does world exploration so much better” rings rather hollow.

Note the games you mention are all primarily single player games that aren't built around PVE/PVP in seperate instances being the intended end game.

[Thestrawman]

I don't think CT being trivial in terms of difficulty is that bad considering it's basically compulsory content, anyway.

I'll take nothing but CT raids if it means I never have to worry about getting a Nier raid.

[Wrecktangle]

Disconnected “flight path loading screen” shit was a big part of shadowlands, large parts of dragon isles are empty unless a WQ pops there, most parts are one-and-done hits for story or just meandering about for ticking off a checklist.

When I think of impeccable world design, I’m more inclined to get excited over dark souls, deus ex or good ol’ fallout. Not gonna defend the disconnecting feelings of ff14, but wow being the “it just does world exploration so much better” rings rather hollow.

Mind you I agree with your examples for sure (esp. on the Fromsoft side). The caveat I have for the Dragon Isles though is that I very frequently see mobs interacting with other mobs, dragons flying around, etc. It certainly feels alive in that respect. I often see other people flying around to WQs, dungeons, or gathering. IMHO enemy placement has always felt more natural in WoW than in FF14, but I recognize that might be subjective, but I'm open to discussion on that.

To use your Dark souls example, you look out over a cliff and there's an astronomically high chance if you see something you can meaningfully visit it. This is true of WoW as well, and I can't say it's as true for FF14 barring very specific examples, but they're almost always instance base which is further to Mario's point.

There's a staggering amount of criticism I have for WoW, but they generally nail it on world design and I certainly believe it's fairly high quality.

I'm not sure I would call it much of a tech debt to just slap the instances with a much tighter ilvl sync using systems already in the game, with a slight HP bump to bosses afterwards if it still isn't enough to get bosses to have enough time to put the full range of their moves on show that are already in the game.

The concern I have is there's a lot of raids and dungeons and they'll have to be looked at every expansion at a bare minimum, sometimes more. Is that a better trade off than focusing on new content?

[Ghost of Cow]

On the topic of criticisms...I always find that I have a staggeringly difficult time motivating myself to do endgame PvE content in XIV despite typically being very much into high end PvE in other MMOs going all the way back to EQ.

It just feels like every fight is Heigan on steroids. Stand here, stand there, group up, spread out, group up while standing precisely here, spread out in this precise area, and so on. And just being a "good player" in general does little for you from fight to fight, since it's another new dance to learn with specific places to stand and you just die if you don't know this specific dance yet. Even the gameplay itself this is scripted dance of fitting every global into the exact same pattern to hit the 2-minute meta and whatnot.

Just kinda demotivates me to try any new content since I know it's just gonna be "remember the dance" again. It reminds me of this bit from Robot Chicken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYn6a6pbZY

[Myradin]

On the topic of criticisms...I always find that I have a staggeringly difficult time motivating myself to do endgame PvE content in XIV despite typically being very much into high end PvE in other MMOs going all the way back to EQ.

It just feels like every fight is Heigan on steroids. Stand here, stand there, group up, spread out, group up while standing precisely here, spread out in this precise area, and so on. And just being a "good player" in general does little for you from fight to fight, since it's another new dance to learn with specific places to stand and you just die if you don't know this specific dance yet. Even the gameplay itself this is scripted dance of fitting every global into the exact same pattern to hit the 2-minute meta and whatnot.

Just kinda demotivates me to try any new content since I know it's just gonna be "remember the dance" again. It reminds me of this bit from Robot Chicken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYn6a6pbZY

I dont have a problem with fight designs themselves, but there's definitely the lack of the feeling of 'a big party of adventurers delving into a dungeon' you get in like WoW or other mmos. I can see people liking dipping in and out of fights they need, but it feels very artificial to me.

Alliance raids are the closest, but they're more like LFR.

Normal Raids used to have trash but are now just a different trial.

[KrayZ33]

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...017b4fd66bd731

It's not criticising the game, but the service...
What the heck is this? Unless I can *finally* pay my subscription with paypal directly, I will no longer be able to play FFXIV without going through either the Crysta-bullshit (which I'm not going to do) or getting a credit-card.

So unless I'm allowed to pay with Paypal/Amazonpay for subs directly, I'm probably going to stop playing this game.

Unavailable Payment Methods: JCB, Carte Bleue, SEPA (Sofort)
Available Payment Methods: Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover, PayPal, Amazon Pay, Paysafecard

[Segus1992]

Yeah we all know that's not what 85% of the people on this subforum are doing.

But as someone who occasionally does it as well, I get how you can miss that.

I'm not sure what you think 85% of this subforum are doing, but a bigger number than that defend the game and get angry when it gets criticized.

[zealo]

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...017b4fd66bd731

It's not criticising the game, but the service...
What the heck is this? Unless I can *finally* pay my subscription with paypal directly, I will no longer be able to play FFXIV without going through either the Crysta-bullshit (which I'm not going to do) or getting a credit-card.

So unless I'm allowed to pay with Paypal/Amazonpay for subs directly, I'm probably going to stop playing this game.

Those changes they did to the mogstation store a while back limiting gifting were likely motivated by complaints about frauds from their payment processor.

Id wager this change is happening because of that too.

[Auxis]

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...017b4fd66bd731

It's not criticising the game, but the service...
What the heck is this? Unless I can *finally* pay my subscription with paypal directly, I will no longer be able to play FFXIV without going through either the Crysta-bullshit (which I'm not going to do) or getting a credit-card.

So unless I'm allowed to pay with Paypal/Amazonpay for subs directly, I'm probably going to stop playing this game.

As long as I am still able to source and use PaySafeCards/vouchers/whatever they are called, I should be fine. Because for some ungodly reason I have never been able to use pre-paid Visa's on either MogStation or the Online Store - always comes up with some error. This is despite the exact same brand of card working with WoW and I think one or 2 other online services that I've used them on (just remembered, I've used the cards on the GW2 store/website to buy the latest expansion). Maybe their system doesn't like the card or something, but it's pretty much the same as PaySafe - it's a prepaid, set amount of money that is being used for a purchase.

Because I'd much rather NOT have to get a bank issued credit card just to play FFXIV, or have to shop around and find a prepaid option that will work.

[DanielleHowe]

I totally get where you're coming from; it can get a bit repetitive when all the boss arenas look the same. It would be great to see more creative designs like in World of Warcraft.

[Yarathir]

I totally get where you're coming from; it can get a bit repetitive when all the boss arenas look the same. It would be great to see more creative designs like in World of Warcraft.

Wasn't the latest raid almost entirely just circles?

Wasn't the Jailer's platform a hexagon? And Anduin's an octagon?

[Thalstan]

FF14, on the other hand, encourages helping others, reaching out, and generally not being a dick, to the point where they have taken people aside for being too much of one and talked to them about it, with repeat offenders finally being let go if it's been decided they can't or won't change. Sometimes, for a community to be seen as good... you've gotta make sure that they're being taught that being good is the right thing.

This is probably one of the things I enjoy about FFXIV the most. People seem to like helping others out and being positive. Let's face it, WoW is toxic and has been since barrens chat went up on launch day. When people started struggling, it became all too easy to bail or kick someone rather than help them. This created a feedback loop for WoW. I still enjoy WoW, but FFXIV is a much nicer place to be from the perspective of dealing with random players.

[Ghost of Cow]

This is probably one of the things I enjoy about FFXIV the most. People seem to like helping others out and being positive. Let's face it, WoW is toxic and has been since barrens chat went up on launch day. When people started struggling, it became all too easy to bail or kick someone rather than help them. This created a feedback loop for WoW. I still enjoy WoW, but FFXIV is a much nicer place to be from the perspective of dealing with random players.

I hear people say this so much, but I've yet to really see a big difference.

Oh sure, XIV has a slightly different dictionary they use because of the concern of enforcement from SE, but people act just the same.

[Yarathir]

I hear people say this so much, but I've yet to really see a big difference.

Oh sure, XIV has a slightly different dictionary they use because of the concern of enforcement from SE, but people act just the same.

This sounds like cope to me.

[Arlette]

I hear people say this so much, but I've yet to really see a big difference.

Oh sure, XIV has a slightly different dictionary they use because of the concern of enforcement from SE, but people act just the same.

Yeah true all the people who say they've seen a huge difference are all just lying totally independently of one another just to all make WoW look bad.

[TheRevenantHero]

I hear people say this so much, but I've yet to really see a big difference.

Oh sure, XIV has a slightly different dictionary they use because of the concern of enforcement from SE, but people act just the same.

I played WoW for 12 years. In the first 3 months of beginning to play FFXIV, I experienced more positivity and willingness to help other players than I had experienced in all 12 years of WoW. The difference is night and day. As Thalstan said, the WoW community is EXCEPTIONALLY toxic. 99% of the time when I asked for help with something in general chat or a zone chat, I was met with trolls mocking me or outright telling me to go fuck myself and "git gud".

[Yarathir]

Yeah true all the people who say they've seen a huge difference are all just lying totally independently of one another just to all make WoW look bad.

It's true that there's more incentive in XIV to act kinder.

But nothing changes the fact that I (and many other people) can count the number of bad (and by that I mean slightly more negative than neutral) experiences on one hand. And I've never had anything overtly bad happen since I started playing. People have been cordial at minimum 9/10 of the time.

[TheRevenantHero]

It's true that there's more incentive in XIV to act kinder.

But nothing changes the fact that I (and many other people) can count the number of bad (and by that I mean slightly more negative than neutral) experiences on one hand. And I've never had anything overtly bad happen since I started playing. People have been cordial at minimum 9/10 of the time.

Even when there's no incentive, people are just nicer. Not long ago I couldn't find where a quest objective was and asked about it in zone chat. Someone invited me to their party, came over with the snazzy FFXV mount, then flew me to the objective in a way that I could see what paths led to in such. They then said "Happy questing! <3" and just....left.

[Yarathir]

Even when there's no incentive, people are just nicer. Not long ago I couldn't find where a quest objective was and asked about it in zone chat. Someone invited me to their party, came over with the snazzy FFXV mount, then flew me to the objective in a way that I could see what paths led to in such. They then said "Happy questing! <3" and just....left.

That's nice. Always good when you have a good if short-lived interaction with other people just out in the world.

I do think XIV's community has its shadows too, but those are mainly sequestered, kept in their hardcore raiding static discords or TalesFromDF/Twitter circles where they mald about the fact that a sprout didn't w2w on his first foray into a new dungeon.

Meanwhile my only positive experiences in WoW after, say, Cataclysm? Or so? Were with people who were already were my friends outside of the game. Even in terms of joining guilds, I can't remember building up any sense of camaraderie. Made one good friend (who also quit WoW and is now playing XIV, lol) in the WoW Secret Finding Discord, though, so that's something!

[TheRevenantHero]

That's nice. Always good when you have a good if short-lived interaction with other people just out in the world.

I do think XIV's community has its shadows too, but those are mainly sequestered, kept in their hardcore raiding static discords or TalesFromDF/Twitter circles where they mald about the fact that a sprout didn't w2w on his first foray into a new dungeon.

Meanwhile my only positive experiences in WoW after, say, Cataclysm? Or so? Were with people who were already were my friends outside of the game. Even in terms of joining guilds, I can't remember building up any sense of camaraderie. Made one good friend (who also quit WoW and is now playing XIV, lol) in the WoW Secret Finding Discord, though, so that's something!

Oh it absolutely does. I've definitely run into real creeps and absolute trolls. But thankfully they are few and far between in my experiences. What makes me love the community is the typically overwhelming number of people who want to make sure those toxic individuals are called out and not tolerated.

When it comes to WoW, I'm in the same boat. I thought I made a few friends in game only to get stabbed in the back or have them create drama just for the sake of it. Though oddly enough, I also made one friend in WoW who quit not long after we met and now we play Destiny 2 together.