Expansion "Sequels"

[Varx]

Every expansion since legion has been a sequel and finale of an expansion theme that came before it. Obviously there's a lot of connective tissue connecting all the expansions together, but each main theme is covered and concluded by two expansions as it stands


TBC - Legion: Burning Legion

Wrath - SL: the lich king and Death

Cata - Dragonflight: dragons and the elements

MoP - BFA: faction conflict fueled by old god shenanigans

WoD - ???(11.0)

Now what happened at the end of WOD? The small legion incursion was defeated and AU Draenor was left to its own. Fast forward to BFA and the maghar recruitment scenario shows us what's happened since.

With the lack of a legion to keep the Draenie occupied, the AU Draenie became zealous and turned into the AU version of our light forged, the light bound. Led by, Yrel, the Alliance rep for the WoD campaign. They created a campaign to unify Draenor by force with the help of the light mother, AU Xera.

We subsequently left Draenor with our new Allys.

So what does this mean?

Well if the expansion sequel pattern is to continue then that means that 11.0 is a WoD sequel.

But how can we even deal with any light bound incursions if they're all stuck back an an alternate time line's Draenor???

Hmmm, well if only DF had characters who are greatly attuned to time and time travel.

Oh wait, it does. For those who've payed attention to alpha, Murozond has been hinted to be a major player of DF and possibly the end boss.

I believe that Murozond will infact by the final boss, create an infinite army to help against the void. We defeated him but he manages one last ditch effort to summon an army who might stand against the void, Yrel and her Light bound army.

This is not head cannon but an educated prediction.

Is this pattern BS? Perhaps. But 4/5? Come on....

[Varodoc]

I mean, you don't need this convoluted logic to come to the simplest conclusion that there will be an expansion about the Light/Lightbound. It's just basic storytelling.

We are already told that High Exarch Yrel has been shown visions by the Great Mother Naaru, visions of the Great Army of the Light purging countless worlds across the universe. Of course they'll come for Azeroth eventually.

And again it's just basic storytelling that, when you introduce a new villainous faction (like the Lightbound), you will eventually follow that up with a conflict revolving around said faction.

Although I don't know why you are so fixated with Murozond turning against the Void. Do you not understand that he was literally created by the Old Gods? Nozdormu was shown visions of his doom by the Old Gods, he joined them out of desperation and was turned by them into Murozond. He serves the Old Gods and the Void.

In this grand Cosmic conflict, I suspect that the most important role, the key role, will be played by the Ren'dorei.

[Varx]

I mean, you don't need this convoluted logic to come to the simplest conclusion that there will be an expansion about the Light/Lightbound. It's just basic storytelling.

We are already told that High Exarch Yrel has been shown visions by the Great Mother Naaru, visions of the Great Army of the Light purging countless worlds across the universe. Of course they'll come for Azeroth eventually.

And again it's just basic storytelling that, when you introduce a new villainous faction (like the Lightbound), you will eventually follow that up with a conflict revolving around said faction.

Although I don't know why you are so fixated with Murozond turning against the Void. Do you not understand that he was literally created by the Old Gods? Nozdormu was shown visions of his doom by the Old Gods, he joined them out of desperation and was turned by them into Murozond. He serves the Old Gods and the Void.

In this grand Cosmic conflict, I suspect that the most important role, the key role, will be played by the Ren'dorei.

Murozond doesn't serve the old gods as death wing did. He was tricked by them to form the infinite Dragonflight.

There aren't any lore bits showing that they serve any of the OG.

I'm fixated on muro because he's the only one capable of getting Yrel to us.

[Triceron]

Each expansion has plenty of mini themes in it that can be expanded any which direction.

TBC had plenty of space themes and connections to different worlds of the Twisting Nether. It had connections with Draenor, which lead to WoD. It had connections to demons, which lead to Legion.

And things like Troll invasions or Old God shenanigans seem to be ever-present in most expansions, regardless of the expansion themes. Whether a civil war or an undead king or Pandas in a far off land, there's some level of connection to these two themes.

I'm actually surprised we don't have Trolls this expansion, especially on another island landscape.

[Varx]

Each expansion has plenty of mini themes in it that can be expanded any which direction.

TBC had plenty of space themes and connections to different worlds of the Twisting Nether. It had connections with Draenor, which lead to WoD. It had connections to demons, which lead to Legion.

And things like Troll invasions or Old God shenanigans seem to be ever-present in most expansions, regardless of the expansion themes. Whether a civil war or an undead king or Pandas in a far off land, there's some level of connection to these two themes.

Yeah that's why I said there's plenty of connections spanning all expansions.

However, each exp has had a CORE theme and story that was concluded in another since legion.

[Varodoc]

Murozond doesn't serve the old gods as death wing did. He was tricked by them to form the infinite Dragonflight.

There aren't any lore bits showing that they serve any of the OG.

I'm fixated on muro because he's the only one capable of getting Yrel to us.

Except for the entire Caverns of Time storyline? To refresh your memory I'll go through every dungeon they appear in and prove why the Infinite dragons have been serving the Old Gods' agenda since the start.

DUNGEONS:

Old Hillsbrad: They try to prevent Thrall from leaving Lordaeron so that he can't form the Horde, which would become one of the two major mortals superpowers on Azeroth and an enemy of the Old Gods.

Black Morass: They try to prevent the Horde from entering Azeroth because that united the Seven Human kingdoms into the Alliance, while it's stated that if the Horde never arrived, it's likely that the Human kingdoms would have fallen into civil war between one another (due to the lack of a common threat), making them easy prey for the Old Gods.

Culling of Stratholme: Preventing Arthas from becoming Lich King and turning the Scourge into a superpower that could oppose the Old Gods.

End Time: It shows the aftermath of the Old God's and Infinite Dragonflight's victory, with the world devastated and purged of all life.


So you see? Like a good puppet, a loyal puppet, Murozond has been dancing to the Old Gods' tune the entire time and has been working to further their agenda and ensure the coming of the Hour of Twilight, the Hour in which the Old Gods are triumphant and scour the world of all life.

If anything, Murozond would ally with Xal'atath and try to find a way to restore Void/Old God dominance on Azeroth.

This is tragedy of Murozond and the tragedy of Nozdormu. Despite all his sacrifices and his efforts to prevent the Old Gods from conquering Azeroth, in the end he is doomed to become their slave. As Nozdormu himself understands, after Murozond is slain in End Times dungeon.

I'm fixated on muro because he's the only one capable of getting Yrel to us.

Not at all. In 10 seconds, I was able to figure out of a way Yrel could come to Azeroth that makes perfect sense lorewise and would be a superb plot twist. Remember how the Sunwell, a fount of Light, upon coming into contact with a fount of Void (Alleria), was used as beacon by Ethereal troops across the Cosmos? No reason why the opposite scenario can't happen. The Sunwell is a fount of Light, which means it could be used by forces of Light throughout the Cosmos as a beacon for their invasion. Just like the Fel-corrupted Tomb of Sargeras with the Legion.

So we have seen that the Sunwell is essentially a portal that can be used to invade Azeroth. We saw it with Kil'jaeden in TBC and again with the Ethereals at the end of Legion. Why are we not concerned that this massive portal comprised exclusively of Light magic could be used by, you know, an intergalactic Light army, to invade Azeroth?

[Triceron]

Yeah that's why I said there's plenty of connections spanning all expansions.

However, each exp has had a CORE theme and story that was concluded in another since legion.

"Core" is subjective and mostly arbitrary though, since you even admit a giant ??? for WoD.

Unless you think Iron Horde or Demons are gonna come back again for whatever reason.


I think it'd just be better to think of the cycle of themes returning as being their own thing. Cuz honestly, Shadowlands isn't just Wrath 2.0 or Legion is TBC 2.0. Most of these expansions also bring in plenty of new themes with them.

And with certain expansions like MoP or WoD, it's probably best not to delve deeper into Civil War or AU shenanigans.

[Varx]

Except for the entire Caverns of Time storyline? To refresh your memory I'll go through every dungeon they appear in and prove why the Infinite dragons have been serving the Old Gods' agenda since the start.

DUNGEONS:

Old Hillsbrad: They try to prevent Thrall from leaving Lordaeron so that he can't form the Horde, which would become one of the two major mortals superpowers on Azeroth and an enemy of the Old Gods.

Black Morass: They try to prevent the Horde from entering Azeroth because that united the Seven Human kingdoms into the Alliance, while it's stated that if the Horde never arrived, it's likely that the Human kingdoms would have fallen into civil war between one another (due to the lack of a common threat), making them easy prey for the Old Gods.

Culling of Stratholme: Preventing Arthas from becoming Lich King and turning the Scourge into a superpower that could oppose the Old Gods.

End Time: It shows the aftermath of the Old God's and Infinite Dragonflight's victory, with the world devastated and purged of all life.


So you see? Like a good puppet, a loyal puppet, Murozond has been dancing to the Old Gods' tune the entire time and has been working to further their agenda and ensure the coming of the Hour of Twilight, the Hour in which the Old Gods are triumphant and scour the world of all life.

If anything, Murozond would ally with Xal'atath and try to find a way to restore Void/Old God dominance on Azeroth.

This is tragedy of Murozond and the tragedy of Nozdormu. Despite all his sacrifices and his efforts to prevent the Old Gods from conquering Azeroth, in the end he is doomed to become their slave. As Nozdormu himself understands, after Murozond is slain in End Times dungeon.



Not at all. In 10 seconds, I was able to figure out of a way Yrel could come to Azeroth that makes perfect sense lorewise and would be a superb plot twist. Remember how the Sunwell, a fount of Light, upon coming into contact with a fount of Void (Alleria), was used as beacon by Ethereal troops across the Cosmos? No reason why the opposite scenario can't happen. The Sunwell is a fount of Light, which means it could be used by forces of Light throughout the Cosmos as a beacon for their invasion. Just like the Fel-corrupted Tomb of Sargeras with the Legion.

So we have seen that the Sunwell is essentially a portal that can be used to invade Azeroth. We saw it with Kil'jaeden in TBC and again with the Ethereals at the end of Legion. Why are we not concerned that this massive portal comprised exclusively of Light magic could be used by, you know, an intergalactic Light army, to invade Azeroth?

The sun well doesn't span time and space.....

Why go that route when we have a super dragon with timetravel abilities...

And none of those dungeons reference the old gods...

As for end time, Murozond chose it because it was somehow better than w/e the true end time is, which I'm sure is what Zovaal hinted at in his death.

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"Core" is subjective and mostly arbitrary though, since you even admit a giant ??? for WoD.

Unless you think Iron Horde or Demons are gonna come back again for whatever reason.

The "???" Was meant for the name of 11.0, haha

And I don't think the core themes are subjective for each expansion, though.

It's clear that TBC and legion is defeating the legion.

Wrath and SL deal with the the LK storyline.

Cata and DF both deal with the aspects and the elemental forces. And BFA and mop both tackled the faction conflict and ended with Old G forces.

The one thing that would hold true for WoD and 11.0 is time travel. Since again, no other way of Yrel to get to us.

[Varodoc]

The sun well doesn't span time and space.....

Why go that route when we have a super dragon with timetravel abilities...

And none of those dungeons reference the old gods...

As for end time, Murozond chose it because it was somehow better than w/e the true end time is, which I'm sure is what Zovaal hinted at in his death.

I should know better than to argue with you.

And let me guess, are you once again certain that Tinkers will be a guaranteed playable class?

[Varx]

I should know better than to argue with you.

And let me guess, are you once again certain that Tinkers will be a guaranteed playable class?

The sun well is just arcane energy beefed up by a naaru shard. Nothing about that says that some AU Draenie can jump out of it because reasons, when we have a time antagonist that can do it instead.

There's no argument u can make against that.

And no tinkers are dead. Evokers and engineering revamp solidified it. Don't tell T though, haha.

[Varodoc]

The sun well is just arcane energy beefed up by a naaru shard. Nothing about that says that some AU Draenie can jump out of it because reasons, when we have a time antagonist that can do it instead.

There's no argument u can make against that.

And no tinkers are dead. Evokers and engineering revamp solidified it. Don't tell T though, haha.

Huh, No, the Blood elf intro quite literally tells you that the Sunwell has been transformed into a fount of pure Holy energy:

The past few years have seen unprecedented changes within the eternal land of Quel'Thalas. The blood elves, following the will of their crazed leader, Kael'thas Sunstrider, channeled dangerous, chaotic magicks to transform their sacred Sunwell into a gateway of unspeakable evil. While Kael'thas and his demonic masters were eventually defeated, a different transformation occurred within the Sunwell itself as a dying naaru sacrificed its life essence to reignite the Sunwell as a font of holy energy. Now, the blood elf regent, Lor'themar Theron, sees a new hope on the horizon for his people. Over time, the Sunwell's Light could cure the blood elves of their cursed state, but many still cling to the arcane powers they procured and are hesitant to relinquish them. As one of the remaining blood elves, you must fight to protect Quel'Thalas and help redeem the soul of your ancient people.

If it was Arcane energy, it wouldn't have reacted in such a way when the Void-infused Alleria touched it.

Nothing about that says that some AU Draenie can jump out of it because reasons,

Because it's a fount of Holy energy and they are creatures infused with Holy energy? It seems like a natural link to establish for a writer and a natural storyline route to take.

Besides, from what I understood of this whole time travel nonsense, there isn't actually an AU Cosmos parallel to and separated from the MU Cosmos. The MU Cosmos is the only universe that exists, AU Draenor and any other alternate timelines are just pocket realms inside the MU Cosmos. The Lightbound might not be so isolated as you think as their little pocket timeline would be inside the MU Cosmos.

[Varx]

Huh, No, the Blood elf intro quite literally tells you that the Sunwell has been transformed into a fount of pure Holy energy:



If it was Arcane energy, it wouldn't have reacted in such a way when the Void-infused Alleria touched it.



Because it's a fount of Holy energy and they are creatures infused with Holy energy? It seems like a natural link to establish for a writer and a natural storyline route to take.

Besides, from what I understood of this whole time travel nonsense, there isn't actually an AU Cosmos parallel to and separated from the MU Cosmos. The MU Cosmos is the only universe that exists, AU Draenor and any other alternate timelines are just pocket realms inside the MU Cosmos. The Lightbound might not be so isolated as you think as their little pocket timeline would be inside the MU Cosmos.

Being infused with light doesn't give you the ability to time travel. You think fire elementals can just travel to different points in time in the firelands just because they're fire elementals? That makes no sense.

And the sun well is both arcane and holy. Why do you think belves got the option to have blue and gold eyes?

Dropping the naaru shard didn't just get rid of all the arcane energy in there. Again it's both a font of arcane and light, everyone knows this.

[Varodoc]

Being infused with light doesn't give you the ability to time travel. You think fire elementals can just travel to different points in time in the firelands just because they're fire elementals? That makes no sense.

And the sun well is both arcane and holy. Why do you think belves got the option to have blue and gold eyes?

Dropping the naaru shard didn't just get rid of all the arcane energy in there. Again it's both a font of arcane and light, everyone knows this.

Okay well it's also a source of Light so I'm right.

Being infused with light doesn't give you the ability to time travel.

On the contrary, the Exodar, which is just a small fraction of Tempest Keep, a massive spacefaring vessel created by the Naaru, was stated capable of "transcending dimensions" and "warping time":

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shard_of_the_Exodar

"The draenei capital city is able to transcend dimensions and even warp time itself. What could a sliver of its power do in the hands of a mere mortal?"

Regardless, the Naaru are not as unprepared as you think. Given how the Light Mother told Yrel that their Army of Light will conquer the universe:

The Light Mother has blessed me with visions. I know that one day the Army of the Light will march across the Great Dark Beyond and bring order to countless worlds.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ser...arch?so=search

We can be certain that the Lightbound are already constructing spaceships to travel across the Cosmos.

They probably won't need anyone to summon them in the first place, but the Horde usually messes things up, hence why I came up with the Sunwell idea. Regardless, even mere fractions/sections of Naaru vessels are stated capable of warping through dimensions and time. The Lightbound have the means to invade the MU Azeroth/MU Cosmos.

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Regarding Murozond, he has a point. The Old Gods tricked him and he did "work" with Deathwing, but he himself was never a pawn of the Old Gods.

Being tricked by someone and doing work for them unwillingly is the definition of a pawn.

"pawn1
/pɔːn/

noun
a person used by others for their own purposes.
"he was a pawn in the game of power politics"

Just like Magni Bronzebeard, Nozdormu was also made a pawn by the Old Gods.

It is also unsurprising to me that in the Dragon Isles there seems to be an insectoid race resembling the mantid, the ancient and infamous servants of the Old God Y'Shaarj. We might see such Mantid lookalikes team up with the Infinite Dragonflight in the future.

[Varx]

Okay well it's also a source of Light so I'm right.




On the contrary, the Exodar, which is just a small fraction of Tempest Keep, a massive spacefaring vessel created by the Naaru, was stated capable of "transcending dimensions" and "warping time":

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shard_of_the_Exodar



Regardless, the Naaru are not as unprepared as you think. Given how the Light Mother told Yrel that their Army of Light will conquer the universe:



https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ser...arch?so=search

We can be certain that the Lightbound are already constructing spaceships to travel across the Cosmos.

They probably won't need anyone to summon them in the first place, but the Horde usually messes things up, hence why I came up with the Sunwell idea. Regardless, even mere fractions/sections of Naaru vessels are stated capable of warping through dimensions and time. The Lightbound have the means to invade the MU Azeroth/MU Cosmos.

The sun well isn't a super high tech naaru spaceship ...

I'm pretty sure conquering the cosmos is not the same as the multiverse and every fathomable timeline...

What do you have against using muro anyway?

Like we're going into an expansion all about dragons, if 11.0 does have Yrel, how exactly is it farfetched to use a time traveling dragon antagonist to kick start 11.0?

[Aucald]

Huh, No, the Blood elf intro quite literally tells you that the Sunwell has been transformed into a fount of pure Holy energy

The restored Sunwell is a font of both Light and Arcane energy:

What we showed at the end of Burning Crusade, like during the whole Sunwell event, was that the warped naaru M’uru was kinda transformed back into his purest self, purest light that Velen used to reignite the Sunwell, as a fountain of holy power, as much as it is arcane. (Source)

The draenei prophet Velen purified the Sunwell with the Light-infused heart of a fallen naaru, transforming the fount into a source of both holy and arcane energies. (Source)

Additionally, Tempest Keep (the source from the Exodar was derived) is a dimensional fortress that makes use of many energy sources to do what it does - Light energies, Arcane Energies, and can even utilize the substance of the Twisting Nether itself (whatever that actually means).

[Varx]

The restored Sunwell is a font of both Light and Arcane energy:

What we showed at the end of Burning Crusade, like during the whole Sunwell event, was that the warped naaru M’uru was kinda transformed back into his purest self, purest light that Velen used to reignite the Sunwell, as a fountain of holy power, as much as it is arcane. (Source)

The draenei prophet Velen purified the Sunwell with the Light-infused heart of a fallen naaru, transforming the fount into a source of both holy and arcane energies. (Source)

Additionally, Tempest Keep (the source from the Exodar was derived) is a dimensional fortress that makes use of many energy sources to do what it does - Light energies, Arcane Energies, and can even utilize the substance of the Twisting Nether itself (whatever that actually means).

Also I'm pretty sure by bending dimensions, it means like teleporting , like how the guardians of the Galaxy do. Not actually going back in time.

Regardless, I'm sure muro is going to kick start 11.0. I mean why wouldn't he?

[Varodoc]

The restored Sunwell is a font of both Light and Arcane energy:

What we showed at the end of Burning Crusade, like during the whole Sunwell event, was that the warped naaru M’uru was kinda transformed back into his purest self, purest light that Velen used to reignite the Sunwell, as a fountain of holy power, as much as it is arcane. (Source)

The draenei prophet Velen purified the Sunwell with the Light-infused heart of a fallen naaru, transforming the fount into a source of both holy and arcane energies. (Source)

Additionally, Tempest Keep (the source from the Exodar was derived) is a dimensional fortress that makes use of many energy sources to do what it does - Light energies, Arcane Energies, and can even utilize the substance of the Twisting Nether itself (whatever that actually means).

Irrelevant to my point, it was built by the Naaru, that is the point. The Naaru know how to create time-warping vessels, they don't need the help of a mere Old God's pawn.

[Aucald]

Now what happened at the end of WOD? The small legion incursion was defeated and AU Draenor was left to its own. Fast forward to BFA and the maghar recruitment scenario shows us what's happened since.

With the lack of a legion to keep the Draenie occupied, the AU Draenie became zealous and turned into the AU version of our light forged, the light bound. Led by, Yrel, the Alliance rep for the WoD campaign. They created a campaign to unify Draenor by force with the help of the light mother, AU Xera.

In the BfA Mag'har recruitment quest chain, we discovered AU Draenor is apparently dying - why this is occurring isn't explored in depth, but it seems highly likely it is due to the fact that WoD's AU Draenor was an artificial timeway created by the Vision of Time and it was finally succumbing to the fate of all temporary continuities and essentially deteriorating back into nothing. AU Grom's remaining Horde forces and the Lightbound basically accused one another of being the architect of Draenor's failing, with AU Xe'ra exhorting AU Yrel to forcibly convert Grom's people due to "visions" that likely had nothing to do with Draenor's eventual fate. It's likely that AU Draenor no longer exists at this point, having succumbed to inevitable entropy and collapse, so AU Yrel, Xe'ra, and the rest of the Lightbound are likely also gone.

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Also I'm pretty sure by bending dimensions, it means like teleporting , like how the guardians of the Galaxy do. Not actually going back in time.
Regardless, I'm sure muro is going to kick start 11.0. I mean why wouldn't he?

Irrelevant to my point, it was built by the Naaru, that is the point. The Naaru know how to create time-warping vessels, they don't need the help of a mere Old God's pawn.

Tempest Keep's ability to "warp time" doesn't imply it can travel through time in any real, either. It may warp time in that it is capable of instantaneous travel and dimensional reconciliation, basically "time travel" in the faster-than-light variety, not in the Doctor Who sense. Neither the naaru nor Tempest Keep has even shown the ability to actually travel backward or forward through time itself - which would make a lot of sense because the naaru never used it to deliver Velen to the past so that he could warn his past self and peers of Sargeras' betrayal of the Eredar, or anything else of the kind.

[Varx]

In the BfA Mag'har recruitment quest chain, we discovered AU Draenor is apparently dying - why this is occurring isn't explored in depth, but it seems highly likely it is due to the fact that WoD's AU Draenor was an artificial timeway created by the Vision of Time and it was finally succumbing to the fate of all temporary continuities and essentially deteriorating back into nothing. AU Grom's remaining Horde forces and the Lightbound basically accused one another of being the architect of Draenor's failing, with AU Xe'ra exhorting AU Yrel to forcibly convert Grom's people due to "visions" that likely had nothing to do with Draenor's eventual fate. It's likely that AU Draenor no longer exists at this point, having succumbed to inevitable entropy and collapse, so AU Yrel, Xe'ra, and the rest of the Lightbound are likely also gone.

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Tempest Keep's ability to "warp time" doesn't imply it can travel through time in any real, either. It may warp time in that it is capable of instantaneous travel and dimensional reconciliation, basically "time travel" in the faster-than-light variety, not in the Doctor Who sense. Neither the naaru nor Tempest Keep has even shown the ability to actually travel backward or forward through time itself - which would make a lot of sense because the naaru never used it to deliver Velen to the past so that he could warn his past self and peers of Sargeras' betrayal of the Eredar, or anything else of the kind.

Perhaps, but again, if Murozond regains his aspect powers I'm sure he can bring them here regardless. I mean it's his area of expertise

[KainneAbsolute]

The Jailer said a divided universe could not survive.

AU Draenor and Yrel appeared because the timelines were messed up.

If Murozond if the big bad of this expansion, maybe he will say: "I was the only one who can repair the timelines and avoid the Yrel taking all the universes"

Then Yrel appears and she says only the Light can unite the Universe.