Realm First Herbalism after just 12 minutes into WOTLK Live?

[Rendark]

There's nothing wrong with using an exploit. It's on blizzard to make sure there's none in the game.

[saintminya]

From the ToS:

Cheating: Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute the following or assist therein:

cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;

[tomten]

And if you EXPLOIT that bug to gain an unfair advantage guess what that's called?

You guessed it! Exploiting

Blizzard did not invent the word "exploit" and what it means, so they don't have to define it. If one abuses a bug in the game for personal gain, that means they're exploiting the bug.

A bug isn't a "loophole".
A bug isn't a "game mechanic".
A bug is how we call when a feature of the game is malfunctioning. Defective. Broken.

Except that it doesn't?
Its about how blizzard chooses to enforce said bugs that makes it an exploit. And they are super inconsistent.
Take naowhs realm dk 80. Back in the day? The person using the same bug got banned and stripped of the title.
They didn't do it this time and you, me or anyone else is free to use the same bug to speed level and nothing will happen. ie, not an exploit but "clever use of game mechanics"
Had blizzard decided to enforce it this time around? It would have been an exploit.

The definition of the word doesn't matter, its how its enforced.

[Ielenia]

Except that it doesn't?
Its about how blizzard chooses to enforce said bugs that makes it an exploit. And they are super inconsistent.

Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

Take naowhs realm dk 80. Back in the day? The person using the same bug got banned and stripped of the title.
They didn't do it this time

Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

and you, me or anyone else is free to use the same bug to speed level and nothing will happen.

You don't know that.

ie, not an exploit

Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

but "clever use of game mechanics"

Repeating exercise to try to teach you basic definitions:

Repeat after me: bugs are not game mechanics. Bugs are not game mechanics.

Bugs.
Are.
Not.
Game.
Mechanics.

You're saying that any defect that comes with a hardware is not a defect, but a feature of the hardware. Car breaks are malfunctioning? That's not a defect, it's a feature of the car.

That's your logic.

Had blizzard decided to enforce it this time around? It would have been an exploit.

Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

The definition of the word doesn't matter, its how its enforced.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It doesn't matter how Blizzard enforces things. The word has a definite definition.

[tomten]

Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.


Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.


You don't know that.


Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.


Repeating exercise to try to teach you basic definitions:

You're saying that any defect that comes with a hardware is not a defect, but a feature of the hardware. Car breaks are malfunctioning? That's not a defect, it's a feature of the car.

That's your logic.


Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.


You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It doesn't matter how Blizzard enforces things. The word has a definite definition.

Again, this is a video game, not a car, not a physical thing. Its a virtual world where blizzards sets the rules and definitions. Which is why some webster definition copypasta for the word "exploit" doesn't matter, at all.
Yes I do, plenty of people have used the same method so blizzard is fine with it this time. Anyone can use it. Which is why its not exploiting anything.
Let's try something else. What's your definition off "clever use of game mechanics"? what is the application? Because pretty much all of them requires bugs or things not really working as intended.

[Ielenia]

Again, this is a video game, not a car, not a physical thing. Its a virtual world where blizzards sets the rules and definitions. Which is why some webster definition copypasta for the word "exploit" doesn't matter, at all.

No, they don't. They don't get to define what the word "exploit" means.

Would you be okay if the mods perma-banned you from posting in MMO-Champion and the reason they give for doing so is because you used the word 'clever' and the mods here define the word as an insensitive racial slur? Would you say "they can define words however they wish, so it's fine"?

Yes I do,

No, you don't. Because Blizzard hasn't done anything yet. What you're doing is akin to saying "murder is a-okay if you're not caught".

Let's try something else. What's your definition off "clever use of game mechanics"? what is the application?

Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.

By calling the exploit of bugs "clever use of game mechanics", you're engaging in semantics fallacy, trying to re-define a word into something that it is not.

Not to mention I already addressed that question.

Because pretty much all of them requires bugs or things not really working as intended.

... Again, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Amazing.

[bullseyed]

What you said makes no absolute sense at all. Cold Weather Flying enables the use of flight in Northrend. It does not control your ability to cast those things, but doing so in Northrend does not enable you to fly without Cold Weather Flying.

Being able to fly in druid flight form in Northrend without Cold Weather Flying definitely proves your comment as misinformation.

- - - Updated - - -

The very existence of the "Cold Weather Flying" feature is all the citation you need.

Wrong. It means they either forgot to implement the "dismount" for druid forms, or the feature failed to work as intended on the druid form.

To claim that Blizzard intended to allow druids to fly in Northrend from the get-go on day one is absurd. Considering how Blizzard is gung-ho on having everyone start on a similar playing field, why would they intentionally give druids that massive advantage, especially since once you shift out of flight form, you can't get back into it on Northrend without Cold Weather Flying and being level 68?

Ah yes, they forgot every day for 15 years, as the reports piled up in their ticketing system. Uh huh.

[Ielenia]

Being able to fly in druid flight form in Northrend without Cold Weather Flying definitely proves your comment as misinformation.

A bug does not disprove the fact that Cold Weather Flying is mandatory for flying in Northrend zones.

Ah yes, they forgot every day for 15 years, as the reports piled up in their ticketing system. Uh huh.

That's a bold claim. Was it reported? Can prove that this was a known bug back in the day? Because I don't remember hearing about it.

[Drusin]

Blizzard did not invent the word "exploit" and what it means, so they don't have to define it.

They do if it clearly doesn't mean what we think it means since some things that are exploits aren't exploits.

If one abuses a bug in the game for personal gain, that means they're exploiting the bug.

Nope, clever use of game mechanics.

[Ielenia]

They do if it clearly doesn't mean what we think it means since some things that are exploits aren't exploits.

Except it clearly means what we know it means. Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

Nope, clever use of game mechanics.

Oh wow. Another one that needs this lesson in basic knowledge:

Repeat after me: bugs are not game mechanics. Bugs are not game mechanics.

Bugs.
Are.
Not.
Game.
Mechanics.

Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.
Bugs are not game mechanics.

By calling the exploit of bugs "clever use of game mechanics", you're engaging in semantics fallacy, trying to re-define a word into something that it is not.

Do you also thinks that malfunctioning breaks in a car does not mean the breaks are defective, that their malfunction is just a feature of the car?

[micwini]

i'm gonna use you as the punching bag to respond to everyone who has tried to berate me for calling this a loophole and not an exploit, and i'm going to try and explain why that is to the best of my ability and hope people are smart enough to see the point being made.

as i said previously:

warlock summoning worked as it was intended to work
druid flight form worked as it was intended to work

these things are factually correct, what you and every other person who responded to me trying to mock me has failed to identify, is that the druid player never used the shapeshift ability while in northrend, why is this key?, because the 'checks and balances' test for flight in northrend is the 'cold weather flying' ability that you purchase at the flight trainer in dalaran and unlock at lvl 77, this is a loophole that bypasses that particular block, meaning that if the druid player had been summoned to northrend and had used the shapeshift skill for flight form and was still able to fly around without cold weather flying, then that would constitute an exploit, as it was working not as intended, however since the check was never performed, nothing was exploited, by all means try to argue semantics but it's a very clear distinction to make that this is using a loophole to gain an advantage and it's on blizzard to close that loophole and while you can argue over the morality of using such a thing to gain an advantage, ultimately nothing was used incorrectly, nothing was actually exploited in a way the game isn't intended to function.

NGL this point stands quite firm. Apart from the unfriendly comment at the beginning, this is a solid explanation.

[Coldfrostzero]

Being able to fly in druid flight form in Northrend without Cold Weather Flying definitely proves your comment as misinformation.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay smart guy, log into a druid right now, walk into Northrend prior to buying Cold Weather Flying or the tome, and repeatedly jump off the side of the world from the highest cliff you can find until you can transform and fly off. If you can do it, clearly you're right and indeed this isn't an exploit or a bug. If not, then I guess you have a lot of repair bills and explaining what the intent of Cold Weather Flying is.

[Drusin]

Except it clearly means what we know it means. Blizzard not acting to fix bugs does not make abusing those bugs not an exploit.

Apparently it does lol. We don't get in trouble then bug, get in trouble then exploit.

Oh wow. Another one that needs this lesson in basic knowledge:

Apparently you're the one that needs the lesson in basic knowledge since if people don't get actioned it's obviously not an exploit OR blizz needs to define what exploit means since it doesn't mean what we think it means.

[Ielenia]

Apparently it does lol. We don't get in trouble then bug, get in trouble then exploit.

Nope. Abusing a bug is an exploit. Again, the definition of "exploit" is not "Blizzard said this is an exploit and punished those who used it".

Apparently you're the one that needs the lesson in basic knowledge

No, that's you. Because you don't seem to know that bugs are not game mechanics, therefore can't be excused with "clever use of game mechanics". Because it's not a game mechanic.

That's like saying an athlete who won a race by using performance-enhancing drugs won "fair and square" because he was never punished despite the rules clearly stating you can't use performance-enhancing drugs.

since if people don't get actioned it's obviously not an exploit

Wrong. Read my first paragraph in this post.

OR blizz needs to define what exploit means

They don't, because they didn't create the word. The word "exploit" has a defined meaning. Stop trying to argue semantics.

[Drusin]

Nope. Abusing a bug is an exploit. Again, the definition of "exploit" is not "Blizzard said this is an exploit and punished those who used it".

Must be for them.

No, that's you. Because you don't seem to know that bugs are not game mechanics, therefore can't be excused with "clever use of game mechanics". Because it's not a game mechanic.

Has Blizzard said that?
They make the game, they decide not us.

That's like saying an athlete who won a race by using performance-enhancing drugs won "fair and square" because he was never punished despite the rules clearly stating you can't use performance-enhancing drugs.

Who defines performance enhancing drugs? Maybe the drugs they used don't fall under that rule in which case yes he won fair and square.

Wrong. Read my first paragraph in this post.

What post?

They don't, because they didn't create the word.

That doesn't mean anything, they must be using it in a different context that we understand it.

The word "exploit" has a defined meaning.

So does casual but it means something different to different people in the community.

Stop trying to argue semantics.

You say semantics I say Blizz decides what words mean in the context of their game so they have to define it.

[Ielenia]

Must be for them.

Has Blizzard said that?
They make the game, they decide not us.

Who defines performance enhancing drugs? Maybe the drugs they used don't fall under that rule in which case yes he won fair and square.

What post?

That doesn't mean anything, they must be using it in a different context that we understand it.

So does casual but it means something different to different people in the community.

I'm done replying with you as you've proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you're not arguing in good faith and keep insisting in playing semantics.

You say semantics I say Blizz decides what words mean in the context of their game so they have to define it.

In other words: you're playing the semantics game.

Good bye.

[Drusin]

I'm done replying with you as you've proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you're not arguing in good faith and keep insisting in playing semantics.

If that's your stance that's fine.

In other words: you're playing the semantics game.

Good bye.

In other words you don't define anything, Blizz does, Goodbye.