How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Rageonit]

In this day and age, playing an offspec for solo content is not really a problem. All you need is: different set of trinkets (and not always, since stat trinkets are equally fine for all specs); and in some cases a different weapon (with weapons being glorified stat sticks). That's it. All the other gear is equally usable in all specs.

[chiddie]

I think there are a few points missing from the discussion here. It seems most people have narrowed the discussion to M+ arguments and I'm not here to say that any of the points made are wrong ( I haven't played much of this expansion, i did heal when i did though )

However, some thoughts on why tanks and healers remain a rare breed outside of the M+ discussion:

DPS have an easier time completing a lot of solo game objectives. It's typically slower for tanks and healers to level and complete quests. (outside of dungeon spam)
DPS loot increases their primary function - doing more damage which helps them in almost all aspects of the game:- world objectives, dungeon and raid objectives and even PVP objectives - A singular loot stream or general direction
Tanks and healers however tend to need to collect an off dps set or similar to achieve some of these objectives efficiently, and are forever passing on upgrades to pure DPS specs etc making it a slow grind.

It's hard to convince players to pickup a character class that has to work just as hard to acquire upgrades and perform at their main role but then also be fairly sub-par in other aspects of the game because your skillset doesn't necessarily improve outside of dungeons or raids. There are people who find enjoyment in tanking and healing and maybe running dungeons M+ and raids is enough for them, but a lot of other players want to experience the rest of the content available to them.

If a tank had the ability to say, switch talents in the open world ( for example a warrior to arms or fury ) and had their tanking items switch to item level equivalent dps gear OR vice versa (dps to tank) meaning they could then focus on collecting a singular gear stream and enjoy the game however they wished, you would likely see more people readily opting in to tank or heal.

Obviously there are other issues as mentioned all throughout this thread with toxicity etc I just thought it worth mentioning that there are other aspects to why there are not as many people prepared to tank and heal.

I think that besides the gearing thing for offspec, tanking per se in a PUG competitive environment like M+ or raids is just too stressful.

I remember when I tanked back in BfA, I spent quite a lot of hours on YT to see and memorize paths and to see and memorize how to handle bosses and packs. And I was constantly being harassed especially in the beginning even if I always said before “dudes I’m still learning”.

Of course I was immortal in open world but there were not many things to do apart from world quests, that were smashed way faster by dps classes.

I had my moments of fun but I enjoyed more healing over tanking and even more dpsing over healing. It’s just so much more chilling.

[Loveliest]

I agree with this completely, it helps keep the flow a bit more interesting and gives you as a tank personal goals to work towards. The other aspect is that most people can not handle criticism at all period in this game for whatever reason its like they are a bunch of introverts or socially handicapped. Its assumed that the lower keys are where you learn routes and perfect your abilities to move you further and if people are being asshats in that level of key just put on your big boy pants and ignore them its only a right click away.

The end result is that people will not tank if you abuse them. That is their solution and is more valid than getting a ticker skin for a game they play to have fun. You hold back abuse, you get more tanks, you don't and tell them to just deal with it, you get less tanks. The tanks themselves will not solve a problem someone else is causing for them, especially abuse, so it's a choice. You want more tanks or you want to insult ppl over games?

[Celement]

The end result is that people will not tank if you abuse them. That is their solution and is more valid than getting a ticker skin for a game they play to have fun. You hold back abuse, you get more tanks, you don't and tell them to just deal with it, you get less tanks. The tanks themselves will not solve a problem someone else is causing for them, especially abuse, so it's a choice. You want more tanks or you want to insult ppl over games?

No you just add actual failure states to dps. Tanking has already been reduced to the most brain dead role by far but it doesn't matter so long as bad dps players get a free pass till 25s or mythic raids.

The solution would be to add proper pass fail checks for dps players but blizzard is loathed to do so.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Ok, tank here. First, five mans are Boring. Like, Really Really boring.
DF isn't going to address that issue. There is no addressing those issues. Tanking in pugs has been boring from day 1. The only reason we do it at the start is because he literally Have to do it to get geared enough for raiding. Beyond that, we don't care. Its the same for healers and dps. The only difference is there are always an abundance of dps running those things because of newly leveled alts.

Honest question, but how are raids more interesting thank dungeons for tanks and healers? In my experience it is the complete opposite. Outside of like bleeding edge content, tanking and healing in raids is insanely boring, meanwhile in dungeons as a tank you have total control - if you get bored, learn how to do bigger pulls! And as a healer, there's no raid leader telling you exactly when to use CDs or other healers to snipe heals from you - it's all on you, which is way more exciting!

Just a different perspective.

[potis]

13 pages of whatever.

If your class can tank or heal and you complain about anything, related to it and refuse to do it, its a you problem.

[Nizah]

Well if people remember state of tanking at the start of shadowlands and season 1 you know theres stuff blizzard can fix and its not only player driven.

[Ham on Rye]

I've been a long time WoW player until about 1.5 years ago. How does the new expansion, Dragonflight, solve the shortage of tanks and healers problems?

Also I know Mythic+ is a popular feature, but I absolutely hate it because it's so difficult to get tanks for a group. Is Mythic+ in DF the same as before? This also leads to the issue of tanks and healers shortage.

It's not a WoW problem to solve. It's a people problem. There are not a lot of people that want responsibility or to be a leader. They just want to follow along and mindlessly press their buttons.

[Temp name]

We'd get 5 tank groups that would be able to push some insane keys.

I mean, there's already 5 tank groups doing like 27s https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...-with-5-tanks/ if you check their r.io profiles you see their score is like 2870 for some of them

Like, yeah, some people are doing higher, but that's still comfortably 1%

[Loveliest]

that's over exaggerating and sorry but makes you look like you don't know anything
I tanked up to +17-18 this season and don't know shit about CD's of everyclass, maybe only DH and monk

Everytime i do irondocks i make a different route and still managed to do it +20, same with gambit my route isn't constant there, i don't know shit about EVERY possible route..

It's irrelevant if he knows or not. That is his experience and that is what needs solving. There is a shortage of tanks and that is a fact and every person that refuses to tank has a reason. Going around telling the them they are wrong fixes nothing.

Also, season 4 is not a normal season. People don't do it to get gear to use in raids and so on. It's got huge discrepancies, a lot of people not playing etc.

[Enter Name Here]

Honest question, but how are raids more interesting thank dungeons for tanks and healers? In my experience it is the complete opposite. Outside of like bleeding edge content, tanking and healing in raids is insanely boring, meanwhile in dungeons as a tank you have total control - if you get bored, learn how to do bigger pulls! And as a healer, there's no raid leader telling you exactly when to use CDs or other healers to snipe heals from you - it's all on you, which is way more exciting!

Just a different perspective.

bigger numbers. juggling the lives of more people. outhealing the other healers. take your pick.
i personally prefer raids over dungeons because raids alternate between ~10min of focus and then downtime as opposed to dungeons which are ~30min of constant focus. probably a matter of attention span.

[Rageonit]

It's irrelevant if he knows or not. That is his experience and that is what needs solving.

No, experience of individual players is not something that needs solving. Systemic problems, on the other hand, is something that can be solved.

This is not a systemic issue. As a tank, you can do your own route, and as long as it's not outraight bad (like pulling too big and causing wipes or not being able to get the forces done), people will follow. So shortage of tanks is not down to that. Rather, people are scared of tanking, because they THINK they need to know every little detail and they find this task daunting. But it's not true. You don't need to know perfect routes or everyone's CDs to do well in a mid level key, like the mentioned 17-18. It's been (and being) done by plenty of people who play tanks, and there's no reason HE couldn't do the same. But alas, he chooses to put pressure on himself even before entering a dungeon.

Notice how people who don't tank because of those issues note that they sometimes didn't tank PUGs in years...? That says something.

[dragonflight10]

It's irrelevant if he knows or not. That is his experience and that is what needs solving. There is a shortage of tanks and that is a fact and every person that refuses to tank has a reason. Going around telling the them they are wrong fixes nothing.

Also, season 4 is not a normal season. People don't do it to get gear to use in raids and so on. It's got huge discrepancies, a lot of people not playing etc.

All i am telling him is don't judge the whole situation based on few grps he's been in, there will always be people who will whine and rage at anything slightly different a tank does but from what i experienced it's not as common as people say

[olzenkhaw]

Cannot be solved unless WoW give more incentives to tanks and healers, for ex, better chance to get good gear. In m+, healer, tank and dps all have same chance to get loot.

[DatBoyHex]

If people weren't toxic manchildren online then people would be open to learning how to tank/heal and/or PUG.

I only exclusively tank for my friend group or guild. If we need a slot filled we grab randos but that's about it.

[Rageonit]

Cannot be solved unless WoW give more incentives to tanks and healers, for ex, better chance to get good gear. In m+, healer, tank and dps all have same chance to get loot.

Technically, as a tank or healer, you get the loot faster, because it's easier to queue.

[jeezusisacasual]

The end result is that people will not tank if you abuse them. That is their solution and is more valid than getting a ticker skin for a game they play to have fun. You hold back abuse, you get more tanks, you don't and tell them to just deal with it, you get less tanks. The tanks themselves will not solve a problem someone else is causing for them, especially abuse, so it's a choice. You want more tanks or you want to insult ppl over games?

Tanking is not for everyone either. The whole goal of the tank is to put the dps in the best situation to win for the given dungeon and if they can not understand to pull around specific class cds or know when to use their own cds or make better use of the classes they pick for the dungeon then they are not setting up their team for success. The world is a cold dog eat dog world and if they can not handle failure in that then i wonder how they deal with actual stressful situations plus stress can be fun that tight rope of failing or winning is exciting but to each their own. Like i have said before i play until i get KSM on whatever tank i am playing that season, sure i come back 2 or so weeks before the next patch / expansion and practice / study what is stopping them?

[chiddie]

Technically, as a tank or healer, you get the loot faster, because it's easier to queue.

It’s not only that. As a tank/healer if a run fails after 10 mins, you’re good to go again after 5 mins. For a dps it’s a “tragedy” because they have to beg for or form a group again from scratch and this takes ages.

But again we have to consider that if even if knowing they get zero queues and instant regrouping they are so few, there’s something else horribly wrong in tank gameplay that prevents people from choosing the role.

- - - Updated - - -

Tanking is not for everyone either. The whole goal of the tank is to put the dps in the best situation to win for the given dungeon and if they can not understand to pull around specific class cds or know when to use their own cds or make better use of the classes they pick for the dungeon then they are not setting up their team for success. The world is a cold dog eat dog world and if they can not handle failure in that then i wonder how they deal with actual stressful situations plus stress can be fun that tight rope of failing or winning is exciting but to each their own. Like i have said before i play until i get KSM on whatever tank i am playing that season, sure i come back 2 or so weeks before the next patch / expansion and practice / study what is stopping them?

Because people with a full job/family play to alleviate stress, if they have to study for games too, it’s just another layer of stress.

I play games to chill out and unplug the brain from the daily life routine, not to engage into a second job. That’s why there are 90% of dps, 9% of healers and 1% tanks out there. It’s not rocket science of course but playing a dps is far less stressful and most people go for that.

That’s also why in single player RPGs there are basically dps classes only. You can have sub specs with more survivabilty at the cost of less damage, but the basis is always “dealing damage”.

[Scrysis]

Tanking is not for everyone either. The whole goal of the tank is to put the dps in the best situation to win for the given dungeon and if they can not understand to pull around specific class cds or know when to use their own cds or make better use of the classes they pick for the dungeon then they are not setting up their team for success. The world is a cold dog eat dog world and if they can not handle failure in that then i wonder how they deal with actual stressful situations plus stress can be fun that tight rope of failing or winning is exciting but to each their own. Like i have said before i play until i get KSM on whatever tank i am playing that season, sure i come back 2 or so weeks before the next patch / expansion and practice / study what is stopping them?

Playing around your dps only works if you're on voice chat, and they're willing to communicate.

[SinR]

How does a game developer solve a player issue?