Healers doing dps.

[DazManianDevil]

Why don't healers dps more in raids? I know this is a weird question to some but I've been reading over logs as I get ready to hit 80 and go into Tier7.
Fights like Loatheb which have high downtime for healers, (I'll use Holy Paladin for example) seem like a great chance to make the fight easier by dpsing.

Obviously dumping your mana pool ad letting people die is stupid and you need to pump during your short healing window.
That being said it seems quite common for Holy Paladins to just stand at range and afk, instead of meleeing with seal of Wisdom and using that mana to Judge, Shield, Exor and Holy Shock to speed up kill times.

Am I just trying to apply retail gamer logic to something that doesn't need it? For context the guild I happened to join is on the lower end, taking 2.5-3 hours to clear Naxx 10man.

[Thundering]

its due to healing is fun and dps is boreing it aint the healers fault blizz has under tuned it too much.

[shise]

You see, anything pre Ulduar doesn´t benefit from logs at all, they are completely meaningless because the content is simply too easy. So no, healers will not contribute in any meaningful way if they deal damage.

I remember in Wrath, I would only start doing damage at some stage mid Ulduar, when every little bit extra did help. Hard modes, that is it, not even normal Ulduar benefits from it.

Bring one or two less healers: that way you gain real extra damage and your healers will be busy. There is absolutely no need for 6 healers in Naxx25, but it is normal to bring them at first. Soon enough we will see guilds clearing it with 4 at most (A holy pala, a disc and 2 AoE healers).


Logs in classic are like gear score, laughable
They can be used for fun.. but they are not more useful than the details addon.

[Caprias]

You see, anything pre Ulduar doesn´t benefit from logs at all, they are completely meaningless because the content is simply too easy. So no, healers will not contribute in any meaningful way if they deal damage.

I remember in Wrath, I would only start doing damage at some stage mid Ulduar, when every little bit extra did help. Hard modes, that is it, not even normal Ulduar benefits from it.

Bring one or two less healers: that way you gain real extra damage and your healers will be busy. There is absolutely no need for 6 healers in Naxx25, but it is normal to bring them at first. Soon enough we will see guilds clearing it with 4 at most (A holy pala, a disc and 2 AoE healers).


Logs in classic are like gear score, laughable
They can be used for fun.. but they are not more useful than the details addon.

-Implying Ulduar will be hard.

Hahaa, this time for shure.

[Biglog]

Mana is the biggest concern, along with the dps that healers would add being minimal in Classic. It's a different ball of wax from retail M+ today where healer dps is much higher and mana is still something to watch, but not nearly as limited as in Classic.

Once a group has been through a raid enough and gets comfortable with it, it's very true that groups start running with fewer healers to get to the same result. But finding that threshold of what minimal # you can safely run at without wiping is done much more than having healers worry about dps. Although usually what actually happens is that groups push that too far and try to run with too few healers for maximum dps, then complain when they wipe that they didn't get heals because their healers were oom.

[Demsi]

it's just not all that needed tbh

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Mana usage is a big concern. Depending on the raid boss encounter in question, proper usage of mana potions and other get-mana-back spells, as well as the DPS in your raid group… you could get away with it.


But in WotLK it was not necessary nor needed. Holy Paladins can get away with Judgement + Seal of Corruption/Truth auto-attacking, dropping Consecration but that damage was so minor it wouldn’t make any difference.

[Sanguinerd]

Am I just trying to apply retail gamer logic to something that doesn't need it?

Pretty much.

[Speedlance]

Its pointless because everything in wrath will fall over very quickly.

[voidillusion]

Why don't healers dps more in raids? I know this is a weird question to some but I've been reading over logs as I get ready to hit 80 and go into Tier7.
Fights like Loatheb which have high downtime for healers, (I'll use Holy Paladin for example) seem like a great chance to make the fight easier by dpsing.

Obviously dumping your mana pool ad letting people die is stupid and you need to pump during your short healing window.
That being said it seems quite common for Holy Paladins to just stand at range and afk, instead of meleeing with seal of Wisdom and using that mana to Judge, Shield, Exor and Holy Shock to speed up kill times.

Am I just trying to apply retail gamer logic to something that doesn't need it? For context the guild I happened to join is on the lower end, taking 2.5-3 hours to clear Naxx 10man.

I believe it's a mix of not really making a difference if they did dps and the fact that mana might be a concern if you go overboard.

[Puupi]

I'm shocked that nobody mentioned the real reason here: hit.

Healers can't hit bosses properly. Just a waste of mana to try to dps when 18% of your spells don't even hit.

Healers can dps fine in dungeons, because the hit requirement is much lower.

[Tehterokkar]

Damaging spells/abilities cost a ton of mana and DPS specs usually have a way to reduce mana costs of those, which healers don't get access to.

Also hit chance is a big concern.

Though it is still beneficial to try and stay in melee range of a boss if possible as a healer and jab a few auto attacks at it to get mana via Judgement of Wisdom.

[Lochton]

Why don't healers dps more in raids? I know this is a weird question to some but I've been reading over logs as I get ready to hit 80 and go into Tier7.
Fights like Loatheb which have high downtime for healers, (I'll use Holy Paladin for example) seem like a great chance to make the fight easier by dpsing.

Obviously dumping your mana pool ad letting people die is stupid and you need to pump during your short healing window.
That being said it seems quite common for Holy Paladins to just stand at range and afk, instead of meleeing with seal of Wisdom and using that mana to Judge, Shield, Exor and Holy Shock to speed up kill times.

Am I just trying to apply retail gamer logic to something that doesn't need it? For context the guild I happened to join is on the lower end, taking 2.5-3 hours to clear Naxx 10man.

Healers.. needing to do DPS... in Vanilla Classic, The Burning Crusade Classic, or Wrath of the Lich King Classic? Hahahaha. Not really needed unless you need to pad the numbers for other DPS not pulling their weight. Healers doing DPS were more of a luxury thing. Healers needing to DPS is more of a progression content kind of thing (current content).

[StrawberryZebra]

Bring one or two less healers: that way you gain real extra damage and your healers will be busy.

This is the short answer. If your healers have DPS time you've got too many of them usually. There may be some situations where you need less healing, like Sarth before drakes land, in which case a good healer is probably going to throw out some minor DPS but not enough to make or break an encounter.

Healers can dps fine in dungeons, because the hit requirement is much lower.

I'm playing a Disc Priest and I took the Smite Glyph and the talent to improve holy damage. I spend most of my time in a dungeon using Mind Sear. For bosses I DoT up and Smite. I won't say it's incredible damage, but I tend to do ~2k DPS overall for a full dungeon which is definately noticable.

Pulls are normally dead before I need to do any healing so it's a total none issue. I feel like the question is given the hyper optimised culture of the game is why full healers are still invited for dungeons at max level. At best you're only healing part time currently. As gear improves you could probably get away without a healer entirely.

[Puupi]

I'm playing a Disc Priest and I took the Smite Glyph and the talent to improve holy damage. I spend most of my time in a dungeon using Mind Sear. For bosses I DoT up and Smite. I won't say it's incredible damage, but I tend to do ~2k DPS overall for a full dungeon which is definately noticable.

Pulls are normally dead before I need to do any healing so it's a total none issue. I feel like the question is given the hyper optimised culture of the game is why full healers are still invited for dungeons at max level. At best you're only healing part time currently. As gear improves you could probably get away without a healer entirely.

I play disc, too. 52/2/17. Mind Searing and Mind Flaying all dungeons. Though I don't do dungeons anymore, there's no point. Raidlogging once a week. :d

[Kralljin]

1. Most healers aren't used to doing dps in WoW
2. Healers usually do pitiful damage (which further reinforces the mindset to just not do it)
3. It can cost quite a lot of mana (which further reinforces the mindset to just not do it)

It's just something that in my view requires a lot of mental re adjustment, which just gets dampened by the facct that when looking at the damage meter, it usually only achieves poor results in comparison to proper dps (altough this disregards that it's effectively free dps).
Also maybe because some healers did dps once or twice - and then tank "suddenly" died.

[Puupi]

1. Most healers aren't used to doing dps in WoW

Healers doing dps has been a core gameplay mechanic in retail WoW since Legion.

[Kralljin]

Healers doing dps has been a core gameplay mechanic in retail WoW since Legion.

I would hardly call it core gameplay outside of disc priest.

Even then, healers doing dps is mostly something relegated to M+, where the gain is a lot more substantial than in raids.

[csguba]

You see, anything pre Ulduar doesn´t benefit from logs at all, they are completely meaningless because the content is simply too easy. So no, healers will not contribute in any meaningful way if they deal damage.

I remember in Wrath, I would only start doing damage at some stage mid Ulduar, when every little bit extra did help. Hard modes, that is it, not even normal Ulduar benefits from it.

Bring one or two less healers: that way you gain real extra damage and your healers will be busy. There is absolutely no need for 6 healers in Naxx25, but it is normal to bring them at first. Soon enough we will see guilds clearing it with 4 at most (A holy pala, a disc and 2 AoE healers).


Logs in classic are like gear score, laughable
They can be used for fun.. but they are not more useful than the details addon.

I mean, the obvious contribution is that you finish the raid quicker. Albeit not much, but still.

[RobertMugabe]

They don't DPS because there is no point to it and you will miss most attacks anyways as you lack hit rating.

In the case of holy paladins, all you can really do is auto attack and put up judgement (which won't give you any benefit in return 90% of the time), which will often miss. Using anything else will either quickly deplete your mana or you will waste a healing spell for dmg (Holy Shock).

Even in a scenario where you can spend all your mana on DPS you will do so little of it that it doesn't benefit the raid in any way, but only creates more risks. And of course it is always a good idea to be in range if possible on many bosses. So unless you are really being a try hard (and I mean really a try hard) there is just no point.

It goes like that similarly for other healers too.