Is the sub-based monthly model outdated?

[zenzaliv]

That runs WoW great? No, you didn't. Even high-end computers can't run WoW great because it's so cpu-bound and struggle in fights.

If you think just running around in a desolate area is "runs wow great", then sure.

Do you think I'm lying for no reason? I am playing WoW at mid/high settings at 60+ fps. Even in M+ and raids.

[Roflfaceroll]

Here, this is $16 and has excellent reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Keyb...871180623&th=1

I don't know why you are still arguing this, I know for a fact I can get a PC under $500 to play WoW. I can provide links to everything that someone on a budget who wants to play WoW can buy and have a solid PC. You said you need a $1000 PC to run WoW, I'm giving you definitive proof that you are incorrect because I literally have a setup under $500 and I am playing WoW with it.

Yeah, that one is $16, but did you check what their 1star reviews say? It is known that there are companies that use bots to write good generic reviews.(several of these rating companies just got shut down that each had in excess of 75kbots used to boost reviews). The 1star reviews will usually tell you the issues you should expect.

Also if you plan on doing anything more than lfr and don't wanna be dead weight you don't wanna use this mouse. Spell clicking is just as bad as keyboard turning.

This may work for leveling, but that is about it.

[lllll]

Do you think I'm lying for no reason?

Yes.

I am playing WoW at mid/high settings at 60+ fps. Even in M+ and raids.

No, you're not.

[Kagthul]

Do you think I'm lying for no reason? I am playing WoW at mid/high settings at 60+ fps. Even in M+ and raids.

Youre not getting a steady 60 in busy environments on a 350$ computer. Average, perhaps, but youre dropping below 60 frequently in raids when lots of shizz happens.

- - - Updated - - -

God, there is so much wrong with this entire post, but much of it is encapsulated right here in the bolded part.

And yet you couldn't actually provide a coherent counter-argument... again, for like the tenth time, and continue to deflect, deflect, deflect... and more ad-hominem.

Do you have trouble walking and breathing at the same time? Serious question.

A hobby is just something a person does for fun in their leisure time. It doesn't have to be competitive to be a hobby (really, we're comparing these to WoW which the majority of people don't play on any sort of competitive level).

I have no idea why you brought up competition at all.

However, no, a hobby is something you dedicate time and effort to.

If you feel otherwise, then there's no point talking about it any further because you're not living in the same reality with the rest of us. You're in some reality where a thing you do occasionally and invest no time or effort into is a hobby. It isn't.

Investing in the most expensive equipment isn't a stipulation for something being a hobby. Any leisure activity that is "something someone does occasionally" is indeed a hobby. No, my friends don't need more than a $50 MTG deck for it to be a hobby, and no you don't need more than a cheap guitar for that to be a hobby either. It also doesn't matter whether it's something that's universally available (living near free hiking routes, a library, free gym access, etc). Just because it's not convenient for you doesn't negate the fact that it is for millions of people. Thinking you need to spend $300 on Catan for it to have lasting entertainment value is a YOU problem. Simple and relatively cheap games like Monopoly and Risk have been entertaining groups of players for decades. You asked for things that are cheaper than WoW and these all fit the bill.

Except they ARENT consistently cheaper than WoW. You just refuse to aknowledge that the other costs exists because they destroy your "argument". Being exceedingly generous there.

Essentially, you have placed your own limitations on what YOU consider a hobby, but that in no way determines the definition for everyone else.

No, im using the generally accpted use of the word. Hobbyists are passionate about their hobbies and invest in them. Sometimes that doesnt require a lot of investment. Most times it does.

Food costs generally don't count because food is a necessity. Trying to factor it in to leisure time is idiotic.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/projection

Ill just leave those there for you since you're apparently not self aware enough to get it...

Again, food, when you are out and about, is part of the expense of your hobby. Buying prepared food is a lot more expensive than cooking at home, so no, its not idiotic. I can eat a full meal for about 3$ at home. I definitely cannot do that when im out.

Same reason we're not counting the massive amounts of snack food the typical gamer is going to eat outside of meal times while sitting at their computer.

Facts not in evidence. This is a meme that has no particular bearing on reality. I mean, your argument is really "el oh el gamers are all fat dudes who snack endlessly at their computers"? Really?

I don't know what you consider "game night" food, but going to a restaurant is its own thing and not something I was bringing up for comparison. For my friends group, if people didn't already eat at home before meeting up (which is the norm)

So, after being told no less than three fucking times that your anecdotal experience doesn't mean fuck all, you make every single argument based on that anecdotal experience which does NOT represent the average.

Anecdotaly, having been an avid table top and board gamer (especially in my 20s, with 2-4 different D&D/TTRPG games every week), eating before meeting up has NEVER ONCE BEEN A THING. Not. Ever. So.. does my anecdote (and the fact that ive almost certainly spent a great deal more time doing TTRPGs than you and all your friends combined with dozens of different groups) mean that i represent the average? No, not necessarily.

However, people do studies on this kind of thing. (mostly for figuring out how to get gamers to spend more) The stats are out there. Most groups order in. They aren't eating fozen pizzas. They may be eating pizzas (in fact, IIRC, thats like 40% of the respondents) but it isnt DiGiorno... its Delivery. The norm is that groups order in. The norm is that groups eat together. Sharing a meal is part of the social experience.

then it's probably just a couple $5 frozen pizzas.

Specifically on D&D, we now tend to play remotely via Discord so no driving costs associated there. We're also all familiar enough with the rules to where any obscure questions can be handled simply with a google search. It was great having the books when we were all starting, but they haven't been needed for years now. This is literally a hobby that we play at zero cost.

.... I cant even with you. More anecdotes that do not reflect the norm.

Enjoy ignore. You're incapabe of defending your "arguments" and believe that every actual additional cost shouldn't be counted because it might debunk your pathetic attempt at an argument.

I feel sorry for the people you have to deal with in real life.

You aren't doing any hobby for 15$ a month that nets you potentially 100+ hours of entertainment. If you believe you are, its because you're deluding yourself. Which i have a feeling you do constantly.

- - - Updated - - -

As I said before, you are 100% wrong. I LITERALLY bought a PC for $350 that runs WoW great.

Buying dodgy used parts is not an argument that can be made, because the used market isnt quantifiable.

You COULD luck across someone selling a 2,500$ rig for 250$. But that cant be quantified or counted on.

If we're taking "need to buy a computer", you can get away with something that will play WoW - at low-med settings and 1080p at 30-50fps for about 450 or so. Not including the cost of Windows. And before anyone chimes in with "just get Windows 4 Free el oh el" - you cant base arguments around people commiting crime.

This is about as cheap as it gets, and does not include Windows or peripherals:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zJLdwc

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($126.15 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($74.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS RGB 512 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($42.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX650M (2021) 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $413.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-11-07 05:13 EST-0500

And that 5600G isnt going to be amazing for graphics. You're 1080p low/med mixed. And you wont average 60fps, but itll be playable.

[mbit2]

Not like it matters too much anyways. If microsoft decides to be dicks with the windows 10 support drop come 2025 none of these computers will matter.

When that happens everyone that has one of these entry levels will have to get a new processor and motherboard that meets the minimum requirements of windows 11.

Just FYI old OS doesn't matter. I have an old laptop with win7. Tried WoW, FF14, New world and all ran on it although new world complained about outdated OS every startup.
The kicker is i tried now win10 on the laptop hoping to improve performance but the fps was same. Literal was pointless effort to upgrade.
So tldr: whenever ms drops win10 support you will likely be able to ignore that for a decade. Not to mention that going linux is improving every year. I dont see myself accepting their tpm software jail.

[Roflfaceroll]

- - - Updated - - -



Buying dodgy used parts is not an argument that can be made, because the used market isnt quantifiable.

You COULD luck across someone selling a 2,500$ rig for 250$. But that cant be quantified or counted on.

If we're taking "need to buy a computer", you can get away with something that will play WoW - at low-med settings and 1080p at 30-50fps for about 450 or so. Not including the cost of Windows. And before anyone chimes in with "just get Windows 4 Free el oh el" - you cant base arguments around people commiting crime.

This is about as cheap as it gets, and does not include Windows or peripherals:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($126.15 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($74.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS RGB 512 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($42.00 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX650M (2021) 650 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $413.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-11-07 05:13 EST-0500


And that 5600G isnt going to be amazing for graphics. You're 1080p low/med mixed. And you wont average 60fps, but itll be playable.

I think you forgot to add a gpu to this list.

[rhorle]

You really don't read do you? Because of inflation and price changes over the years your $20 mouse is about what a $40 mouse is now.

I've been using a $10 keyboard for years now. I bought a spare just so I wouldn't have to wait on 2-day shipping and have yet use it. I just looked and a Amazon Basics keyboard is $10.24. A basic mouse is sub $20 and I'm sure they don't break all that often though gamers do click more then an average user. Inflation hasn't really impacted prices everywhere and the basic stuff isn't as fragile as you make out.

[Lochton]

I've been using a $10 keyboard for years now. I bought a spare just so I wouldn't have to wait on 2-day shipping and have yet use it. I just looked and a Amazon Basics keyboard is $10.24. A basic mouse is sub $20 and I'm sure they don't break all that often though gamers do click more then an average user. Inflation hasn't really impacted prices everywhere and the basic stuff isn't as fragile as you make out.

Our mouse (both) are some 10-12 dollars each, keyboards are 15 dollars each, screen (well, ours is salvaged from old support contracts but on the market for WoW, 80-100 dollars), headset about 40-80 dollars. I'm not going to mess with mentioning of the parts prices due to my being resourceful enough to not get the same prices as websites display. My current computer would have a value of 600 dollars tops, but I salvaged it from electronic waste.

[rhorle]

I think you forgot to add a gpu to this list.

The Ryzen 5 5600G has a decent onboard GPU. Not as good as a dedicated one would be but still decent enough for onboard.

[Roflfaceroll]

I've been using a $10 keyboard for years now. I bought a spare just so I wouldn't have to wait on 2-day shipping and have yet use it. I just looked and a Amazon Basics keyboard is $10.24. A basic mouse is sub $20 and I'm sure they don't break all that often though gamers do click more then an average user. Inflation hasn't really impacted prices everywhere and the basic stuff isn't as fragile as you make out.

Yeah, thats what I've been considering. Gamers especially mid to hardcore gamers will click and smash the hell out of mouses and keyboards. A $10 amazon basic keyboard would be lucky to last 6 months.

I don't doubt that these can last a lot longer if you barely play or don't really try to play hard, but for the average gamer that isn't the case.

[rhorle]

Yeah, thats what I've been considering. Gamers especially mid to hardcore gamers will click and smash the hell out of mouses and keyboards. A $10 amazon basic keyboard would be lucky to last 6 months.

I looked it up and I bought my current HP basic keyboard back in 2017 for $8.62 with tax. I bought the Amazon Basic back up in 2019 because prices went up a little and I wanted a back up at a cheap price. I've yet to need it and prices have actually come down from the 2019 price lol. The basic keyboards can last just fine. The mouse is more of the failure point in my opinion but even then it seems like certain brands, like Razer, have problems that others do not.

Tech can be funny. It can fail quickly or it can run forever with out problems.

[Aucald]

This thread seems to have run its course and has now derailed into discussing the cost of living and the prices of computer builds. Closing this.