Trading loot for mounts.

[Lady Atia]

Just to confirm what someone else already mentioned: As it is currently, everyone can roll need on everything if they can equip it and it's their type of armor (e.g. cloth, leather etc). No restrictions on ilvl. The game also doesn't distinguish between main and second spec.

OT: The mount doesn't really change much there. People are already needing everything they can in the pre-patch for gold - as is their right in the current system. Obviously that makes it almost impossible for casual players who use LFR as their main source of gear to get some slots (like neck and rings), so I hope they change the system back. Let organized groups use whichever loot system they want. Let completely random groups have personal loot.

You are aware that personal loot worked exactly the same way? People weren't held hostage to give up their items to low geared people with perso loot either lol. There is no difference between someone giving up their item and them not rolling on the item, you know. Neither for the other way - people rolling need or keeping their item although you deem it unfair.

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At this point I don't even know what you're trying to say, the incomplete sentences and incorrect usage of the word "than" have only succeeded in rendering me utterly baffled as to what you were trying to convey.

The whole crux of the problem is this creates a scenario where a single player playing a single character is motivated to get the piece twice. Do you not recognize that people will simply vie for a second necklace, rather than wait for an upgrade to drop so they can trade in the necklace for the mount?

You can't roll need if you have THE SAME ITEM already.

[Frikkster]

Isnt this pretty simple?

The idea is basicly to use gear you allready uppgraded from / redundant gear to exchange for a mount, instead of vendoring / DE as you would've otherwise.

If you roll Need on an item you do not actually need you are a a-hole, doesnt realy matter if it is a "faulty" Need-roll due to a mount, vendoring, transmog or DE.

[Orange Joe]

People saying they can't roll on it if they already have it....
There are simple ways around this.

Most gear check only check bags not bank. Wear scrub item for raid, need neck, profit...

Even if it does check the bank you can just vendor it before the raid and buy back after. Worse case you would need to vendor restore.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You can't roll need if you have THE SAME ITEM already.

Where is this confirmed? Because a quick check shows that the necklace isn't classified as a unique item. I haven't seen any details on how exactly loot is going to work in DF, and I've seen multiple contradictory statements in this thread regarding how need/greed is going to work in DF. As it stands I've seen several people mention that they are able to need on items below their ilvl on live right now.

[Lady Atia]

Where is this confirmed? Because a quick check shows that the necklace isn't classified as a unique item.

It's confirmed because you already have the new lootsystem in the raid? And yesterday I couldn't roll for the same item I already had equipped.

[Celement]

People saying they can't roll on it if they already have it....
There are simple ways around this.

Most gear check only check bags not bank. Wear scrub item for raid, need neck, profit...

Even if it does check the bank you can just vendor it before the raid and buy back after. Worse case you would need to vendor restore.

Ever think of testing or even googling what you say before you say it?

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Where is this confirmed? Because a quick check shows that the necklace isn't classified as a unique item. I haven't seen any details on how exactly loot is going to work in DF, and I've seen multiple contradictory statements in this thread regarding how need/greed is going to work in DF. As it stands I've seen several people mention that they are able to need on items below their ilvl on live right now.

Blue post there are exceptions for one handed weapons. You can't roll on a item you have or a lesser version of a item you have unless it procs a gem slot or another modifier.

[Vampyrr]

Didn't get what you meant there are two vendor only ones.

Is the mount ALSO a boss drop or a vendor exclusive mount? Can I get the mount normally as an extra drop from killing a boss or only from the NPC.

[Celement]

Is the mount ALSO a boss drop or a vendor exclusive mount? Can I get the mount normally as an extra drop from killing a boss or only from the NPC.

Just from the npc.

[Frostfred]

You are aware that personal loot worked exactly the same way? People weren't held hostage to give up their items to low geared people with perso loot either lol. There is no difference between someone giving up their item and them not rolling on the item, you know. Neither for the other way - people rolling need or keeping their item although you deem it unfair.

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You can't roll need if you have THE SAME ITEM already.

Did they change personal loot then during SL? Because when I played before (didn't play during most of it), the points I mentioned worked differently. You chose a loot spec and rolled internally for items of that spec, not for everything you can wear. Furthermore, as everyone had their internal roll, items which everyone could use (like necks, rings) or items of an armor type which was prevalent in the raid (for example, let's say there are 15 leather wearers in the raid) had a higher drop chance on average.
So if you write "exactly the same way", that means they changed LFR during SL so you didn't chose a loot spec and just rolled on everything, and the drop chances in the system right now consider the raid layout and how many people can use which item? Is that correct?

[Lady Atia]

Did they change personal loot then during SL? Because when I played before (didn't play during most of it), the points I mentioned worked differently. You chose a loot spec and rolled internally for items of that spec, not for everything you can wear. Furthermore, as everyone had their internal roll, items which everyone could use (like necks, rings) or items of an armor type which was prevalent in the raid (for example, let's say there are 15 leather wearers in the raid) had a higher drop chance on average.
So if you write "exactly the same way", that means they changed LFR during SL so you didn't chose a loot spec and just rolled on everything, and the drop chances in the system right now consider the raid layout and how many people can use which item? Is that correct?

It works exactly the way because you still have a loot spec with group loot.

:X

But no, you can't manipulate the loot dropps anymore if you do a raid just with druids, thanks god.

[Yarathir]

This is a really stupid idea (or at least a really stupid execution of what could potentially be a good idea) no matter what level of cope you trot out to defend yourselves against the immutable truth of the matter.

[Frostfred]

It works exactly the way because you still have a loot spec with group loot.

:X

But no, you can't manipulate the loot dropps anymore if you do a raid just with druids, thanks god.

1. As someone else in this thread reported, currently the game does not consider main > secondary spec when rolling. Haven't tested it out myself, but I've seen people winning rolls on secondary gear quite frequently the past week. So how does choosing the "loot spec" in group loot matter, when it's not affecting rolls at all?

2. Was the latter such a big, wide-spread problem in LFR that they had to make it harder for casual players to obtain some slots of gear?

[Lady Atia]

1. As someone else in this thread reported, currently the game does not consider main > secondary spec when rolling. Haven't tested it out myself, but I've seen people winning rolls on secondary gear quite frequently the past week. So how does choosing the "loot spec" in group loot matter, when it's not affecting rolls at all?

2. Was the latter such a big, wide-spread problem in LFR that they had to make it harder for casual players to obtain some slots of gear?

1.) If that is indeed a case, that would be a bug and shouldn't happen with VotI anyways.

2.) Why is it harder for casuals to obtain gear? Besides that, Blizzard should balance the loot around Mythic, not LFR lol.

[Frostfred]

1.) If that is indeed a case, that would be a bug and shouldn't happen with VotI anyways.

2.) Why is it harder for casuals to obtain gear? Besides that, Blizzard should balance the loot around Mythic, not LFR lol.

1. Good to know. Let's wait and see if they fix it.

2. You're missing the "some slots" part, i.e. items that everyone can wear, as you have many more players rolling on it. As far as I understand, in personal loot, you first roll (invisibly) if you get an item or not, and then roll which one you get. Maybe that's not the case, which would change the calculation.

Let's say (very simple example for personal loot) items for 4 people drop, one of each armor class. The boss can drop one item for every armor class, and a neck. Now you have a 50% chance for each armor item, but 4 50% chances for a neck on the entire raid. So overall, seen on the entire raid, you'll have more necks dropping on average. In the current system, 4 items would drop, with a 20% chance for every type of armor and 20% for the neck. That's where the difference on some slots comes from.

Of course, that's napkin math, presuming they don't adjust the chances for items to drop correspondingly (which we already discussed before, anyway). In an organized group, you should be able to shuffle around gear as is needed, and as other people get the item, sooner or later also the last people will get it. In LFR, every week you'll roll against 24 different people. Even if, by chance, you come up with the same ones, chances are they already sold it (because they didn't need it in the first place, which a lot of the discussion around the system is based on) and will roll again on it, keeping your chances to get it constantly low.

As for loot balance: Why not both? Why not just allow the choice of loot system that raiders requested for organized group content, without touching it in LFR - as I argued in my first post in this thread?

As seen in the discussion in this thread and in the official forums, the change to group loot in LFR seems to also cause a lot of friction within the community. If they already considered all I wrote before and baked that into the drop chances in LFR, why not just keep the rolls in the background to avoid this friction?

[Lady Atia]

1. Good to know. Let's wait and see if they fix it.

2. You're missing the "some slots" part, i.e. items that everyone can wear, as you have many more players rolling on it. As far as I understand, in personal loot, you first roll (invisibly) if you get an item or not, and then roll which one you get. Maybe that's not the case, which would change the calculation.

Let's say (very simple example for personal loot) items for 4 people drop, one of each armor class. The boss can drop one item for every armor class, and a neck. Now you have a 50% chance for each armor item, but 4 50% chances for a neck on the entire raid. So overall, seen on the entire raid, you'll have more necks dropping on average. In the current system, 4 items would drop, with a 20% chance for every type of armor and 20% for the neck. That's where the difference on some slots comes from.

Of course, that's napkin math, presuming they don't adjust the chances for items to drop correspondingly (which we already discussed before, anyway). In an organized group, you should be able to shuffle around gear as is needed, and as other people get the item, sooner or later also the last people will get it. In LFR, every week you'll roll against 24 different people. Even if, by chance, you come up with the same ones, chances are they already sold it (because they didn't need it in the first place, which a lot of the discussion around the system is based on) and will roll again on it, keeping your chances to get it constantly low.

As for loot balance: Why not both? Why not just allow the choice of loot system that raiders requested for organized group content, without touching it in LFR - as I argued in my first post in this thread?

As seen in the discussion in this thread and in the official forums, the change to group loot in LFR seems to also cause a lot of friction within the community. If they already considered all I wrote before and baked that into the drop chances in LFR, why not just keep the rolls in the background to avoid this friction?

No, in personal loot the game did create 5 items based on the group constellation, and after that they let everyone roll who could wear the item, even if they had the same or a better one already. So lets say if you had a raid with 10 warriors and 2 monks on Jailer, chances were high that you had a Gavel drop because of that etc ^^

[Frostfred]

No, in personal loot the game did create 5 items based on the group constellation, and after that they let everyone roll who could wear the item, even if they had the same or a better one already. So lets say if you had a raid with 10 warriors and 2 monks on Jailer, chances were high that you had a Gavel drop because of that etc ^^

Ah, thanks for the clarification! Different roll order, but same conclusion, as personal loot is based on the group constellation. It's much harder now, with group loot, to obtain some slots of gear than before the patch in LFR, with personal loot.

[SausageBiscuits]

Shadowlands LFRs are not personal loot right now. I don't know about DF

They are also roll, confirmed by Blizz. Group loot is the only loot option available in DF raids.

[Zyrinx]

This is a really stupid idea (or at least a really stupid execution of what could potentially be a good idea) no matter what level of cope you trot out to defend yourselves against the immutable truth of the matter.

I mean yes, this. It will piss people off the the Nth degree, was there some other goal here?

Seems trollish tbh.