1. #21301
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Because its primary purpose is to be a narratively disconnected tutorial area to teach you the most basic game mechanics.

    Whereas new racial starting zones could be purely narratively driven, and people can easily just continue in them after Reach.

    You do the tutorial zone -> then get sent to Elwynn or wherever to explore more of Azeroth.
    Or if you are a veteran, you can choose to start in Elwynn or wherever from the get go, like you can do now.
    That doesn't really seem like a sensible transition. It should be the other way around, you do race stuff and then report to the larger faction for assignment to faction stuff, not faction stuff and then "You're a Night Elf so we're dismissing you across the entire world to go do whatever Night Elves are up to".

    Besides the weird pseudo-segregation, it makes new players feel like Org/Stormwind are home and their own racial areas are an assignment, or like they're supposed to have an existing connection to a place they've never been or seen. None of this are the end of the world, but they're all awkward and it makes zero since to build an entire second area full of new assets when you could just build the tutorial zone into the first 10 levels of a racial starting area and not have the awkward back and forth.

    Especially awkward for veterans, because you don't want to choose Elwynn and "learn" about the human faction you already know all about, you want a quick and streamlined experience which is what Exile's is, tutorial aspect notwithstanding.

    Just doesn't make any sense imo.

  2. #21302
    I want revamp to happen but the moment when it won't be announced, will be quite a sight when it comes to social media.

    I dropped my hopium % for that to 0,01% so i will be very happy and surprised if it happens.

    So far they are hyping this stuff like the biggest thing ever - of course it's just pure marketing, but it just feels like they are really "loud" about it this time.

  3. #21303
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Because its primary purpose is to be a narratively disconnected tutorial area to teach you the most basic game mechanics.

    Whereas new racial starting zones could be purely narratively driven, and people can easily just continue in them after Reach.

    You do the tutorial zone -> then get sent to Elwynn or wherever to explore more of Azeroth.
    Or if you are a veteran, you can choose to start in Elwynn or wherever from the get go, like you can do now.
    What purpose would this serve, though? The Cata update had two big goals: it modernized the leveling experience for new players and brought flying back into the old world. A modern world revamp does neither of those--new players are already being put into the most modern leveling experience (Dragonflight), and the old world doesn't need to be totally remade to support dynamic flying.

    imo if they were to update the old world, it would be to make it the focus of an expansion, with the old zones being made into 70-80 (or 80-90 etc) zones. Plus, I don't think they would offhandedly mention in an interview "We are going to do a world revamp again probably eventually" if that was the big thing for the upcoming Blizzcon announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    Dragonflight as default levelling route for new players is not only weird but also kinda bad. the dragon isles feel so disconnected from everything else. they should put a bit more effort and revamp the og starting zones.
    tbh I only see this take in this thread. It's especially a strange sentiment to see when we just got out of Shadowlands.

  4. #21304
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    Dragonflight as default levelling route for new players is not only weird but also kinda bad. the dragon isles feel so disconnected from everything else. they should put a bit more effort and revamp the og starting zones.
    That's the point?

    It's gonna be disjointed no matter what you do. You have 20 years worth of content.

    Dragon Isles is the only expansion where you really don't need any prior knowledge on most of the characters. Even not knowing that the dragons lost their powers is fine.

    It's for new-new players. As in, players that have NEVER played the game before. Bombarding them with Illidan here, and Arthas there, and Garrosh there would just confuse everyone.

  5. #21305
    So, Thrall on the Blizzcon Keyart has a full render. Is that indicative of anything?

    https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/...573430/photo/1


  6. #21306
    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    Dragonflight as default levelling route for new players is not only weird but also kinda bad. the dragon isles feel so disconnected from everything else. they should put a bit more effort and revamp the og starting zones.
    That is the point. To avoid situations like Cata, where you level an undead and have Sylvanas taking orders from Garrosh and Val'kyr assisting you, warchief of the Horde and then go to BC and Garrosh is a no name young Orc living in Nagrand, and Wrath where the Val'kyr are your enemy and working for Arthas.

  7. #21307
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    So, Thrall on the Blizzcon Keyart has a full render. Is that indicative of anything?
    Yes, it means we get a revamped WoW 2 Back to the Future in Goldshire Inn. Or it's just cuz he is WoW/Blizz poster boy and Metzen is back.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #21308
    Dragon Isles having no factions INTENTIONALLY because of how it ties to a revamp/it's meant for noobies would be insane 4D chess, but man... if that's the case, they really should be more transparent, because in the meantime it feels shitty.

  9. #21309
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    So, Thrall on the Blizzcon Keyart has a full render. Is that indicative of anything?

    https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/...573430/photo/1
    No. All of them are usually individual pictures composited together.




  10. #21310
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    That's the point?

    It's gonna be disjointed no matter what you do. You have 20 years worth of content.

    Dragon Isles is the only expansion where you really don't need any prior knowledge on most of the characters. Even not knowing that the dragons lost their powers is fine.

    It's for new-new players. As in, players that have NEVER played the game before. Bombarding them with Illidan here, and Arthas there, and Garrosh there would just confuse everyone.
    Yeah tbh the only thing I'd really want to see in a new player experience that isn't really in Exile's Reach/Dragon Isles is a bit more juxtaposition of the Horde/Alliance. Something like a buddy cop questline where you have like, an Orc and a Human trying to accomplish something and showing off how the two factions think about things differently. It'd help new players understand why there are two factions without having to be full faction war

  11. #21311
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    So, Thrall on the Blizzcon Keyart has a full render. Is that indicative of anything?

    https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/...573430/photo/1
    Most likely just part of the Metzen association hype. The art looks gorgeous, though.

  12. #21312
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I mean, Ion also said that they had no plans for a new evoker spec, or that helf customization was not happening.
    Yet here we are.
    That's the narrative the community made. The reality is that in all interviews, Ion always responded "there are no plans for a new Evoker spec for 10.1", which it was true.
    All dev were very cautious with the responses, and you could see it, which it added a certainty that the spec was being worked out, but they didn't know when would be finished, so that's why they didn't want to say a date for sure.

  13. #21313
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    So, Thrall on the Blizzcon Keyart has a full render. Is that indicative of anything?

    https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/...573430/photo/1

    Of course he does.

    All the characters from the keyart have full renders.... thats how they make the keyarts.

  14. #21314
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    That's the narrative the community made. The reality is that in all interviews, Ion always responded "there are no plans for a new Evoker spec for 10.1", which it was true.
    This is just pendantic.
    He said that to deflect from the question.

    The jist was that people asked him about a third spec, he denied it, and then when it got revealed he has the rhetorical safety of a technicallity ("weeeell, i did say 10.1 didn't i? ")
    All dev were very cautious with the responses
    No shit, it's almost as if that's the whole point!


    Formerly known as Arafal

  15. #21315
    But Ion never lied. The devs are doing the same thing by refusing to confirm 10.2 is the last "major patch".

    Doesn't matter what you thought he said, or what he implied, but he never lied.

    Just because most people used that as ammunition against Teriz or something doesn't mean they didn't fall for it, which they did.

  16. #21316
    I don't think DF is much more appropriate for new players than BfA is. Keep in mind they condensed and cut up some of BfA's narrative for new players; they're not seeing anything with Sargeras's sword and the war campaign stuff is all shoved to the side. More than anything related to the narrative, neither expansion is actually designed for new players. The scaling makes everything super easy, but nothing is being taught to new players. Dungeons are the worst example of this, we've all seen the countless horror stories of new players suddenly having to juggle more mechanics at once than they've ever been shown previously all while veterans are doing obtuse skips and rushing as fast as possible.

    There's no real solution to this unless they actually designed a more comprehensive tutorial experience, which I don't think they want to do. Stories abruptly ending in dungeons, raids, and max level reputation quests new players will be shepherded away from is another issue, but that's getting into much larger issues with how the story is told and the expansion system in general.

  17. #21317
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    I don't think DF is much more appropriate for new players than BfA is. Keep in mind they condensed and cut up some of BfA's narrative for new players; they're not seeing anything with Sargeras's sword and the war campaign stuff is all shoved to the side. More than anything related to the narrative, neither expansion is actually designed for new players. The scaling makes everything super easy, but nothing is being taught to new players. Dungeons are the worst example of this, we've all seen the countless horror stories of new players suddenly having to juggle more mechanics at once than they've ever been shown previously all while veterans are doing obtuse skips and rushing as fast as possible.

    There's no real solution to this unless they actually designed a more comprehensive tutorial experience, which I don't think they want to do. Stories abruptly ending in dungeons, raids, and max level reputation quests new players will be shepherded away from is another issue, but that's getting into much larger issues with how the story is told and the expansion system in general.
    The story and setting of DF is 100% designed in mind for players that don't know anything about Warcraft lore. Almost every single big NPC has a "Who are you?" dialog button.

    But making the gameplay "designed for new players" would be near-impossible because the expansion has to be satisfying for current players as well.

  18. #21318

  19. #21319
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    That's the point?

    It's gonna be disjointed no matter what you do. You have 20 years worth of content.

    Dragon Isles is the only expansion where you really don't need any prior knowledge on most of the characters. Even not knowing that the dragons lost their powers is fine.

    It's for new-new players. As in, players that have NEVER played the game before. Bombarding them with Illidan here, and Arthas there, and Garrosh there would just confuse everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    That is the point. To avoid situations like Cata, where you level an undead and have Sylvanas taking orders from Garrosh and Val'kyr assisting you, warchief of the Horde and then go to BC and Garrosh is a no name young Orc living in Nagrand, and Wrath where the Val'kyr are your enemy and working for Arthas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Selorian View Post
    tbh I only see this take in this thread. It's especially a strange sentiment to see when we just got out of Shadowlands.
    imo they should make people lvl from 1 until the last 10 lvls in the 2 revamped main continents then send them to do the last 10 lvls in the new zones. they should treat everything else as something to farm collectibles and achievements.

  20. #21320

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