1. #22221
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    This was foreshadowed a bit by Scaleface's crew, they could definitely be diamond dwarves.
    Got links? Doing some research what allowed Magni to save Ironforge was some titan tables found in Ulduar - Yogg which is the start of th curse of the flesh. However nothing says these tables where ACTUALLY titan and maybe old god workings? Mangi becomes the pawn that is the reason we power the heart and release Nzoth.

    Source:
    " During the exploration of Ulduar, the dwarves found a set of mystical tablets created by the Titans. Brann informed King Magni about it.[34] Magni called for a meeting in Stormwind City and informed the other Alliance leaders about the tablets, believing they could help....

    Later when he used it...
    Subsequently, he heard hundreds of voices. Though he initially thought his plan was working, the tablet turned out to be far more literal than any of the translators had realized. The ritual was actually a process for earthen (and thus dwarves, descended from earthen) to once again become part of the very material they had been crafted from by the titans: the very crust of Azeroth. Magni was instead turned into a diamond, his statue-like form fused into the diamond heart of Ironforge itself before the stunned onlookers."


    holy shit - the hearing hundreds of voices is so odd because you would think the tables where made by titans to try and convert the dwarfs back to earthen but what if they weren't?
    Last edited by flan1337; 2023-10-01 at 03:24 AM.

  2. #22222
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    Got links? Doing some research what allowed Magni to save Ironforge was some titan tables found in Ulduar - Yogg which is the start of th curse of the flesh. However nothing says these tables where ACTUALLY titan and maybe old god workings? Mangi becomes the pawn that is the reason we power the heart and release Nzoth.
    I don't have the quotes on hand, but there was a groupie with Scaleface who kept talking about "Diamond Dwarves" and "Magnisworn Dwarves" (aka dwarves that look like him)

  3. #22223
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Yup, so definitely written post-Sundering too.
    Sundering: ~10,000 BDP
    Earliest reference to the Curse of Flesh ~15,000 BDP

    We do know no Earthen were actually immune to the curse of flesh, just that putting themselves in suspended animation seemed to prevent it, even though the Vrykul did the same thing & the curse still changed them.

  4. #22224
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I think Fyrn is a reference to a fern, the plant. So that's earth.
    Lil Maggz is probably a reference to Magma, so fire.
    Squally is probably a little griffon pet. It goes along the lines of what the Dwarfs name their mounts, imo.

  5. #22225
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    Hold up what if the Khaz Algar dwarfs are fucking crystal people.
    Magni doesnt really look like Earthern hes kinda more than that
    That is a huge possibility... They don't hear the words of the Titans, they hear the words of Azeroth who is her own separate entity different from the Titans. Which would explain why Magni is the Speaker for her.

  6. #22226
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Sundering: ~10,000 BDP
    Earliest reference to the Curse of Flesh ~15,000 BDP

    We do know no Earthen were actually immune to the curse of flesh, just that putting themselves in suspended animation seemed to prevent it, even though the Vrykul did the same thing & the curse still changed them.
    From what I understand, dwarves were not a thing until the changed earthen from Uldaman came out after the Sundering, so if the report mentions dwarves, it therefore has to be written post-Sundering. It also talks about the dwarven language and behavior, which would be stuff that came about after the Sundering.

  7. #22227
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    That is a huge possibility... They don't hear the words of the Titans, they hear the words of Azeroth who is her own separate entity different from the Titans. Which would explain why Magni is the Speaker for her.
    We technically already have a dwarves race that isn't 100% dwarfs also check out the Frostborn: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Frostborn

    They are technically odd because of this " Brann Bronzebeard thinks they migrated from Uldaman to the Storm Peaks with many making Frosthold their home, since there are no records of them in Ulduar. "

    Edit: What the fuck are Frostborn dwarves doing in so far???? Plus From Uldaman which we just learned about the Khaz Algar. Are Frostborn actually Algarians cousins.
    Last edited by flan1337; 2023-10-01 at 03:44 AM.

  8. #22228
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    Edit: What the fuck are Frostborn dwarves doing in so far???? Plus From Uldaman which we just learned about the Khaz Algar. Are Frostborn actually Algarians cousins.
    I did actually consider that. They seem to be physiologically similar to Earthern while also being plainly distinct from normal dwarves, and if Blizzard even remembers the magazine it sets a precedent that there's no record of them in Ulduar. Also connects to the glow I think looks a bit like saronite on the gryphon. However, it would be odd to reveal the Frostborn had this name for their region that we never heard before unless they moved to Storm Peaks from Khaz Algar; alternatively, it could be their name for the city deeper in Frosthold that Wowpedia states is described in Exploring Azeroth: Northrend.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2023-10-01 at 03:56 AM.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  9. #22229
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I did actually consider that. They seem to be physiologically similar to Earthern while also being plainly distinct from normal dwarves, and if Blizzard even remembers the magazine it sets a precedent that there's no record of them in Ulduar. Also connects to the glow I think looks a bit like saronite on the gryphon. However, it would be odd to reveal the Frostborn had this name for their region that we never heard before unless they moved to Storm Peaks from Khaz Algar; alternatively, it could be their name for the city deeper in Frosthold that Wowpedia states is described in Exploring Azeroth: Northrend.
    From the wiki that I find interesting:
    " The frostborn are similar to conventional dwarves, with an exception being that their skin is an icy blue. Glorthal Stiffbeard has snow-white skin, a trait shared with the frostborn skins used in Heroes of the Storm; signifying not all of their race is blue-skinned. Upon even closer examination, the frostborn have similar marks on them as those of the earthen. According to Brann Bronzebeard, the Frostborn descend from earthen the same way that the rest of dwarven kind do; possibly having retained these markings rather than having abandoned them as the rest of dwarf kind has. "

    Like you say in your update post:


    They are terrible record keepers being so old.
    Last edited by flan1337; 2023-10-01 at 04:02 AM.

  10. #22230
    ...I'll be honest, I can see how you can mistake this for a "Diamond Dwarf".

    https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...20160215170853

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Fro...le=Brandig.jpg

    Maybe the twist is that the Algarians are the Frostborn this whole time, and Blizzard are going whole hog on old race requests?

    Here's the passage from Exploring Northrend: note this was written post-Shadowlands.

    Following the war against the Jailer, Mithrios was found by a Frostborn patrol after a skirmish with the Scourge near Icecrown. The frost dwarves discovered runes on it that linked the weapon to the earthen of Northrend and to the ancestors of Muradin Bronzebeard. As the Frostborn were repairing the weapon, King Velog Icebellow wrote to his old friend to come to visit them and tell the story of the weapon. Muradin, however, had no idea what weapon Velog was referring to, so he called his brothers, Brann and Magni, to come with him.[18]

    When the Bronzebeadthe dwarves arrived, the Frostborn were glad to see Muradin. After the presentations and a feast, they spent the night drinking and sharing stories. During the night, Muradin told Velog that he had no doubt he left the Frostborn in the right hands, and with the help of the historian of Frosthold, he learned the story of the meeting between Mina Stormsmith and the Frostborn.[14]

    After the Bronzebeard brothers left, Muradin sent a letter to Velog, inviting him, and any Frostborn who would care to make the journey, to Ironforge, hoping to bring their families together and wanting to show them Dun Morogh's interesting places - New Tinkertown, the Thunderbrew Distillery, Ironforge Mountain, and the Deeprun Tram.[19]
    It's almost like how Velen invited the Broken.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-10-01 at 04:10 AM.

  11. #22231
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    so what I am reading is we are actually getting a northern revamp. Now that we have Classic Wrath they can go ahead and delete the map.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Sundering: ~10,000 BDP
    Earliest reference to the Curse of Flesh ~15,000 BDP

    We do know no Earthen were actually immune to the curse of flesh, just that putting themselves in suspended animation seemed to prevent it, even though the Vrykul did the same thing & the curse still changed them.
    What if the frostborn are?

  12. #22232
    Also consider the following:

    Wildhammer: Storm
    Dark Iron: Fire
    Bronzebeard: Earth
    Frostborn: Water/Ice

    Frostborn complete the quartet of elements for dwarves.

    The Saronite vibe on the gryphon textures, the "Diamond Dwarf" hints from the DF leaks, the super ambiguous lore for both the Frostborn and Khaz Algar, the "old subraces" stuff that's going on now (Broken)... I'm kind of suspicious that's where this is going. Not to mention the Titan ties with DF.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2023-10-01 at 04:20 AM.

  13. #22233
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    From what I understand, dwarves were not a thing until the changed earthen from Uldaman came out after the Sundering, so if the report mentions dwarves, it therefore has to be written post-Sundering. It also talks about the dwarven language and behavior, which would be stuff that came about after the Sundering.
    Yes, given where this log was found Archaedas & Ironaya had access to it. And from it they deduced that the curse of flesh was inevitable: That is why they put themselves into hibernation because they believed it was the only way to stop the curse from advancing. We know this from the original Uldaman.

    Add that information Blizzard intended the audience to infer with the fact that an Earthen riding a gryphon would be silly, tells us the Algarians are definitely dwarves by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    What if the frostborn are?
    But the Frostborn aren't Earthen either. They're dwarves.

  14. #22234
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridiel View Post
    I think, if the reading of the Khaz Algar excerpt really is that the Earthen there arrived with the Curse of Flesh but only mentally fleshified and remained physically distinctively Earthen, then there are only a couple options for what the fissure is:
    • Decay. On Draenor, Spirit is what caused the Breakers to eventually turn to flesh, so it's possible that the Curse of Flesh works in the same way, and it's cancelled out by Decay. This would be a follow-on from the Gnoll Decay storyline that has yet to be returned to in DF
    • Elemental energy. An obvious tie-in to DF and might explain the Primalist insurgence that we still know nothing about. The "elemental energy" could also be Azerite, which we know affects the mind and we don't know its long-term effects on flesh

    And it probably depends on why the dwarves developed their culture. Was it the Curse of Flesh alone, or did the energies of the Well of Eternity reach them in Uldaman and affect them as it did the races everywhere else? If the former, I think it's Decay, if the latter, Azerite/elemental energy.

    That said, I'm not convinced that the reading that they haven't changed physically is necessarily correct. It only says that they developed very similarly to dwarves but remain physiologically distinct. There isn't anything to suggest that their physiological distinctiveness is distinctively Earthen, unless I'm missing something.

    So an alternate origin for Skardyn is a strong candidate, with the fissure being Xal'atath's body or a dead darkened Naaru or something. But I'm not sure how or why a Void-warped Earthen would behave similarly to a dwarf.
    If it didn't effect their mind imagine it just being a horse of a different color

  15. #22235
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Also consider the following:

    Wildhammer: Storm
    Dark Iron: Fire
    Bronzebeard: Earth
    Frostborn: Water/Ice

    Frostborn complete the quartet of elements for dwarves.

    The Saronite vibe on the gryphon textures, the "Diamond Dwarf" hints from the DF leaks, the super ambiguous lore for both the Frostborn and Khaz Algar, the "old subraces" stuff that's going on now (Broken)... I'm kind of suspicious that's where this is going. Not to mention the Titan ties with DF.
    Elaborate 10char

  16. #22236
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Elaborate 10char
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53699489

    This poster was leaking things with Scaleface. As we never got Crystal Dwarves, it was kind of passed over. But they mentioned things like this a few times.

  17. #22237
    Quote Originally Posted by flan1337 View Post
    so what I am reading is we are actually getting a northern revamp. Now that we have Classic Wrath they can go ahead and delete the map.
    I get the vibes from the gryphon, but I don't see how Thrall could figure into it. I'm still skeptical, and all my talk about Northrend is presently fantasy unless we get real confirmation soon.
    "Wounds are for the desperate, blows are for the strong;
    balm and oil for weary hearts all cut and bruised with wrong.
    I forgive thy treason, I redeem thy fall;
    for iron—cold iron—must be master of men all!"


    You'll believe it when you see it for yourself.

  18. #22238
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I get the vibes from the gryphon, but I don't see how Thrall could figure into it. I'm still skeptical, and all my talk about Northrend is presently fantasy unless we get real confirmation soon.
    If we're getting maybe Broken, maybe Jinyu, and maybe Frostborn, it's definitely an "All Over the World" expansion so Thrall fits as it would be Cata 2.

  19. #22239
    Brewmaster flan1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    If we're getting maybe Broken, maybe Jinyu, and maybe Frostborn, it's definitely an "All Over the World" expansion so Thrall fits as it would be Cata 2.
    Interesting note - does a world revamp include wrath? why not include it in an over arching optional story. Maybe even have something start there.

  20. #22240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Oh and another interesting fact...

    In the Twilight Highlands, the Cataclysm zone arguably the most affected by the Old Gods, what themes did we have?

    • Wildhammer Dwarves and Gryphon aviaries.
    • Dragonmaw Orcs.
    • Dragons (particularly Red and Black).
    • Twilight Cultists attempting to usher in the Void.
    • The Earthen Ring.
    • Elementals bound to the Void.
    • The Twilight Citadel, which is Cho'gall's chosen base of operations for the cult due to its proximity to the Old Gods below.
    • Fissures in the ground with Void-energies seeping out of them.
    • A great storm brewing on the horizon all around the zone.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but to me this sounds like a description of 11.0.

    As I've been theorizing for a long while, 11.0 will be a supercharged version of Cataclysm, just like Legion was to TBC and Shadowlands was to WotLK.

    From Blizzard's point of view, that probably means they're looking at all the ingredients they had back then, and think to themselves: "Hmm, how can we do this, but twice as awesome?"
    I agree with you for once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I think from here on out I’m just going to read, not post. These comments are on fire.
    Comments like this are why you cant shake the "blizzard employee" status.

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