Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Gurahk]

Noticing a lot of cherrypicking in these "arguments" from both sides...
Anyways, I'm expecting the last campaign quest to be unlocked after the Blue questline. Hope we don't off Fyrakk just like that.

[Darkarath]

If they bring Malygos' visage again, I hope someone bothers to use a better looking armor set for him.
I'd go for something like this: https://www.wowhead.com/dressing-roo...C808Ikl8MKS87R

It is my hope that by the end of DF we get the chance to see all Aspects and Incarnates in their visage form. Malygos looked so cool in the Legacies series, I really hope to see him like that in the game, with a proper uniquer model, like the rest of the Aspects. Damn, Malygos was so mistreated in WotLK.

I also dream about Raszageth's visage form. With 10.1.5 megadungeon everything is possible. We would see if the time stuff is done by 10.1.5 or if it is expanded. I certainly hope that is the latter. 10.2 gives us the Emerald Dream and the Green Dragonflight stuff with an expanded timewalking system and 10.3 doubles down on that and the Reds and Bronzes.

[Nymrohd]

Noticing a lot of cherrypicking in these "arguments" from both sides...
Anyways, I'm expecting the last campaign quest to be unlocked after the Blue questline. Hope we don't off Fyrakk just like that.

Still holding out hope that 10.1.7 comes with a surprise small raid. Either just Fyrakk or a two boss raid with Fyrakk plus something else. Otherwise Vyranoth & Fyrakk together would make an awesome end of raid encounter for 10.2 raid.

[Eldryth]

I'm amused that your quote is full of annotations and references, and yet the part you bolded on the first paragraph has no reference, and I can't think of anywhere where that supposed part of the lore was said.

Also, the second bolded part literally is what we were talking about, about having no context. We only have the orcs' clam that some were forcefully converted.

Apparently it comes from the sermon cited in the following paragraph, which I had forgotten about myself. Turns out it kind of eliminated most of the ambiguity already:

Brothers and sisters,

Decades have passed since the last vestiges of the Legion were driven from Draenor. We could not have accomplished this noble undertaking without the help of the orc clans, united as the Mag'har.

Our fondest wish is for all the people of Draenor to remain unified in purpose. Sadly, this dream is not shared by all of those who once stood beside us.

Many noble orcs have embraced the Light. Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow. Yet sadly, his own father resists the true path.

I believe with all my heart that the Mag'har are destined to join us as servants of the Light. But first, they must be taught to trust the naaru as we do.

The Light Mother has blessed me with visions. I know that one day the Army of the Light will march across the Great Dark Beyond and bring order to countless worlds.

That bold future begins here. With us. We must make Draenor whole again.

I call upon you all to ensure that the future promised by the Light Mother is fulfilled. Purge the infection that prevents Draenor's heart from being whole.

The Light will forge a new future for the orcs... but first, we must save the Mag'har from themselves.

No more division. No more defiance. In the Light, we shall be one.

Yrel sees it as simply teaching the Orcs about the Light and the Naaru and thinks she's saving them, but the goal is absolutely to unite everyone under the Light, and then continue on to other worlds. That said, I think this Light Mother (whether it's Xe'ra as expected, another Prime Naaru, or something else entirely) makes more sense as an expansion villain with Yrel as her servant (who could either be freed and redeemed or die as a mid-tier end boss).

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

[huth]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

At least people aren't pushing Turalyon as a villain as much anymore. I don't think he fits - he was relatively quickly talked down after Illidan politely declined Xe'ra's offer and in general seems more concerned about doing what is right than what is "the will of the Light". Not to mention his relationship with Alleria.

[Gurahk]

Hot take: The evil Yrel should be a dreadlord.
Why? Because I don't like the direction they went with, simple as that. Have alliance members find the real Yrel and work with her from there, while Horde members find surviving Mag'har, introducing some new characters into the mix.

[Super Dickmann]

Yrel becoming a Space Jihad leader is the most (read: only) interesting thing to have ever happened to her character. Not only should she be the real deal, but the transparent logic of her opposing the people who went on a war against her people led by the guy who sacrificed her sister to the void should be emphasized when she shows up to purify the MU.

[Teriz]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

That's certainly a possibility, and it could give her an out.

I'd still prefer to kill her though, then we fight Xe'ra and you find out that she was manipulating everything all along, but its too late to save Yrel and the Lightbound who you just killed by the truckload. Too bad, too sad.

[Santandame]

I don't think anyone here wants/needs your constant thread policing. See off-topic? Report. It didn't do shit? Tough titties, maybe it is you who is wrong.

Pretty sure many people do want this thread to stay on topic and for it to not continuously devolve into the personal chat room of around a handful of the usual suspects to talk shite. Most people just come into this thread expecting to see upcoming expansion and patch speculation, and then nope the fuck out when they see certain people treating it as their own group chat, who then shout down anyone who takes umbrage with it(and rightfully so) much like you just have.

[AngerFork]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

From everything we've seen of the Light thus far, it's absolutely both. The Light does seem to take over whomever it possesses, much as we saw with Turalyon and what it wanted to do with Illidan. It sees one path forward and anyone who won't follow that direct path is nothing sort of an obstacle.

Yet, that there is the tricky part of the Light. While the Light has no issue with remaking beings, most seem to be left with their free will intact. We saw this in A Thousand Years War after X'era imprisoned Alleria when Turalyon and Lothraxian both expressed still trusting Alleria. A full mental manipulation would have left both fully happy to see her imprisoned. So why weren't they? Simple. The Light does not fully possess, but instead works inside the hearts and minds of it's followers. This allows it's followers to direct their actions towards the Path.

With Illidan, this may well have worked had he opted to let the Light reshape him. He'd have tons of power from the Light, yet would still maintain his unpredictable chaotic nature and hatred of the Legion.

With someone like Yrel who already was devoted, this will only serve to shape her vision further. Her devotion to the Light helped her to save her world from the Legion in her mind. Her devotion to the Light helped her to save it again in her view when the Mag'har Orcs were killing AU Draenor. When the Light has proven itself so valuable to her, it need not mind control her...she trusts it implicitly.

That btw is why I think she can still be redeemed. Because we saw another being who implicitly trusted the Light move past that trust and play a huge role in saving Azeroth...Velen. And even though he may be a different Velen than Yrel knew, he's still likely to be pretty important in her eyes. If any part of her is wavering and needs guidance, Velen would be an amazing friend to her.

[Makabreska]

Pretty sure many people do want this thread to stay on topic and for it to not continuously devolve into the personal chat room of around a handful of the usual suspects to talk shite. Most people just come into this thread expecting to see upcoming expansion and patch speculation, and then nope the fuck out when they see certain people treating it as their own group chat, who then shout down anyone who takes umbrage with it(and rightfully so) much like you just have.

Well then he spectacularly failed at his attempt. And again, if mods allow this to happen, maybe it was all okay?

[Santandame]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass? How have the zones changed? What would the variety be to keep us from experiencing Light fatigue? I could see a Light “corrupted” Nagrand. Golden rolling plains as opposed to green to reflect the influence of the Light. Draenei architecture and structures replacing the Orcish settlements. Maybe even combined Draenei/Orc architecture?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

- - - Updated - - -

Well then he spectacularly failed at his attempt. And again, if mods allow this to happen, maybe it was all okay?

I wouldn’t say he’s failed in the slightest as more and more people are seemingly starting to become more vocally annoyed about the drivel posted here at times.

Back on topic. For what it’s worth I still see the next two expansions being Tel’Abim and Avaloren in an interchangeable order. Tel’Abim will be our first look at a Middle Eastern, Arabian Nights, Indian inspired continent with associated lore such as Djinn, Ifrit, magical cities in the sands etc. With Avaloren focusing on a Greco-Roman style continent or a Medieval England, Camelot style landmass to coincide with Avalon. We could meet WoW’s interpretation of King Arthur, Merlin, Morgan Le Fay, and search for the Holy Grail.

[AngerFork]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

Good question. Initially, I'm thinking this could be done as a partial revamp of the northern portion of the Eastern Kingdoms, especially given how much that area has dealt with the Undead/Scourge/Forsaken. Perhaps the Undercity & Gilneas would serve as our faction hubs for such an expansion that could easily go from the Sepulcher (maybe Hillsbrad & Arathi as well) up through Tirisfal and the Plaguelands, all the way through the Dead Scar towards the Sunwell in Quel'thalas. You could perhaps have light invasions throughout all of the old continents, but those would be the main spots.

As for some of the patch zones, I'd probably go off world for a few of those. Imagine perhaps going to Farahlon in AU Draenor which is now a base of operation for Yrel's troops. Or perhaps we find a Light-based version of the Emerald Dream (which I still believe exists, even if we don't know about it yet).

The other possibility is Avaloren. We know little about it right now other than Odyn failing to get troops there to pursue heretics. We don't know what they've done or who they were. Given the duality of the Light & the Void we see with the Na'aru, those beings may well have been associated with either power at the time.

[Skildar]

Having the light element under the spotlight could be interesting for sure but they should do it through specific characters and factions that touches directly the people of Azeroth you care about and not in a "I'm going to mindcontrol/kill everyone in the galaxy/multiverse".

The important thing is also the hero and antihero's journey. We are in a dire need of characters that make horrible decisions for the greater good of their people and stand by their actions.

I want :
- orcs to destroy the heirlooms of the night elves because they need the resources of Ashenvale to reshape Durotar and I want to see Thrall struggle to accept that, having seen Garrosh go there because of Thrall's inaction toward his own people
- gilneans to sacrifice something big to cleanse their land in order to reclaim their kingdom and I want Darius and Lorna Crowley to lead the pack. Genn will try to push for a diplomatic support but with no success, etc.
- gnomes to make a new invention to counter a threat it will save many lives until it goes haywire and instead hurt their allies and I want mekkatorque new mechanical heart to guide us there.

The same goes for the light, void and other forces of the cosmos. I don't care as mich about them today, I care about the characters it touches and how it helps or hurts the cultures of Azeroth at a personal level.

I want next expansion to have a solid theme and be visually more impressive than the current but I would think that going back to some great story telling where we follow a hero's journey would be prime.

[Teriz]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass? How have the zones changed? What would the variety be to keep us from experiencing Light fatigue? I could see a Light “corrupted” Nagrand. Golden rolling plains as opposed to green to reflect the influence of the Light. Draenei architecture and structures replacing the Orcish settlements. Maybe even combined Draenei/Orc architecture?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

More than likely it will be multi-prong, with multiple Azerothian locations being attacked at once. That could be the pre patch event, with the meat of the expansion taking place on a new landmass.

We’re more than likely not returning to Draenor. It’s likely dead or destroyed at this point.

[Ielenia]

Apparently it comes from the sermon cited in the following paragraph, which I had forgotten about myself. Turns out it kind of eliminated most of the ambiguity already:



Yrel sees it as simply teaching the Orcs about the Light and the Naaru and thinks she's saving them, but the goal is absolutely to unite everyone under the Light, and then continue on to other worlds. That said, I think this Light Mother (whether it's Xe'ra as expected, another Prime Naaru, or something else entirely) makes more sense as an expansion villain with Yrel as her servant (who could either be freed and redeemed or die as a mid-tier end boss).

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

If that's the case, then I doubt we'd ever see Warlords of Draenor characters again, especially Yrel. And if we indeed get an expansion where we have the Light itself as the main antagonist, we won't be seeing Yrel.

Because it honestly doesn't sit right for the viewer to have a character we spent an entire expansion helping grow from a simple soldier into a leader of the draenei that follows in Velen's footsteps, to become a zealot "convert or die" kind of extremist. It'd be like we spend all the original Star Wars trilogy watching Luke grow from a simple farmer into a good and just hero of an entire galaxy... only for him to suddenly become the villain of the next trilogy, as if he was the leader of the First Order, so to speak.

It just doesn't feel right from a narrative perspective.

- - - Updated - - -

Hot take: The evil Yrel should be a dreadlord.
Why? Because I don't like the direction they went with, simple as that.

Or that. That would be okay, if the real Yrel has been captured and replaced.

[ChairmanKaga]

Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow. Yet sadly, his own father resists the true path.

So there is a new Garrosh on alt-Draenor who is a Light zealot, interesting.

[Radioactive]

Am I the only one to think that the fact they added all these dragonriding races to the old world pretty much confirms a world revamp is dead at this point? Why would they bother implementing such a cool feature and awesome races for them to become irrelevant next expansion if they revamp the old world?

I agree that they won't spend time to implement numerous flying races on Kalimdor only to "destroy" them an expansion later... But I do not despair. To me it pretty much confirms a world revamp!

- For some reason they were interested and had to make a choice: they choose to make Dragonriding Races only on kalimdor. Meaning it will be the Eastern Kingdom that will be revamped. Which is good! Since revamping two massive continents would be too much work for an expansion. They'll need to focus on "only" one continent and make it really great.
- Blizz said (I can't find the exact quote) that the Cataclysm world revamp was pushed by the success of flying 1.0 and wanting to make people experience flying in the old world. ==> Dragonriding/Dynamic Flying is now the push they needed to make another oldworld revamp, and they choose to focus on the Easter Kingdoms as it seems.

Because this time it won't be a light revamp where they only update some areas, no. They're going all out and remaking the whole continent from the ground up and redesign every zone with dynamic flying in mind : Silvermoon shall rival with the grandeur and beauty of Suramar; Ironforge and Khaz Modan shall put Ulduar and the Storm peaks to shame.

The question is how they'll make leveling work in the revamped EK : specific zones for 1-70 leveling (Khaz Modan, Blackrock)? then other zones for 70-80? (Lordaeron, Quel'Thalas : light-themed expansion?)

And if WR (or partial WR) is indeed dead, I'm on board with some pristine Kalimdor expansions going forward (either we go there from timey-wimey stuff with the infinite/bronze dragonflight, or from the Emerald Dream which is essentially a pristine Kalimdor if that was not retconned)

[Teriz]

So there is a new Garrosh on alt-Draenor who is a Light zealot, interesting.

Which only fuels my belief that this is happening; Too many opportunities to see alternate versions of major characters.

[Telogrus]

What even is the philosophical difference between Light/Order and Void/Chaos? The Light wants to bring order to the universe, and the Void wants to bring chaos, so why are Order and Chaos their own separate Forces? Heck, Void does a better job representing Chaos than the Demons do.