Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I actually really like that idea. It gives the Horde something to shoot for other than inexplicably complying with Sylvie's every lunatic request—assuming, at least, the Alliance get to attack first as to provide stronger justification for the Horde.

I think you need an inciting event to kick the Alliance off. Just having them suddenly decide to attack might be possible with some members, but I doubt Anduin would go gung-ho on immediately attacking what is for all intents and purposes a civilian city.
Before the Storm is adequate in that regards, but I feel an even stronger motive is needed. Something has to be the big inciting incident.

I also wholeheartedly believe that the most wasted storyline with potential in BfA is Saurfang's identity crisis about being a warrior for honor, who for a second or third time has been willingly dragged into a war of aggression.
Losing this aspect would also be a major loss to the Horde, who I think needed that storyline to really firmly place them in the good guys category, rather than the only ocassionally good one.

Hard to combine the two though. I do however think it's possible.

[Le Conceptuel]

I think you need an inciting event to kick the Alliance off. Just having them suddenly decide to attack might be possible with some members, but I doubt Anduin would go gung-ho on immediately attacking what is for all intents and purposes a civilian city.
Before the Storm is adequate in that regards, but I feel an even stronger motive is needed. Something has to be the big inciting incident..

My feeling is that the Alliance do have substantial motive to attack the Horde on account of some of their members—by the beginning of Battle for Azeroth, the Horde is in possession of an extraordinarily powerful and potentially-destructive resource right at its wellspring. This poses an existential threat to the Alliance, at least insofar as the more cynical and alert members may be concerned. Presently, the Alliance would have four leaders that are familiar with what the blood of a Titan can do – Velen, Turalyon, and Alleria from their experiences with Argunite, and Tyrande from her experience with the Well of Eternity – the latter three of which are already more likely to be on the suspicious side in regards to the Horde accounting for their respective experiences with them and their histories.

Realistically, I'd figure the inciting incident could occur in Silithus—this would be a good place for the war to begin. Whether Lordaeron or Teldrassil succeeds the inciting incident in Silithus doesn't matter, insofar as it is made clear that the Alliance struck first, but with sufficient justification such that the Alliance can be firm in its assertion that it is in the right in the war. Admittedly, Anduin is the primary problem in having such an event occur—a devout peacenik like himself seems rather difficult to push into aggression, though I will note that Genn, Tyrande, Alleria, Turalyon, and at least some of the Council of Three Hammers may be inclined to support a hard approach to the Horde which could snowball into a Casus Belli for both factions.

As for Saurfang's loss of honor, I think that could still occur from general shell-shock more than having to strictly be on the side of the aggressors. I do think that most of what I think should've happened in BfA – such as Teldrassil occurring as an accident emerging from volatile Azerite being stored there after being extracted from Silithus – would kind of preclude much of Saurfang's arc from occurring in the way it did, it probably wouldn't be that much of a problem to refocus Saurfang's arc on a general state of war-weariness. Although I would find it distasteful on account of that it could come too close to framing one side as objectively good or bad, Sylvie would still be as unsavory as ever, so there's plenty of reason for him to object to any number of things Sylvie could've done beforehand, such as using chemical weaponry, or orchestrating or even just facilitating and ignoring miscellaneous war crimes in Ashenvale.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think you need an inciting event to kick the Alliance off. Just having them suddenly decide to attack might be possible with some members, but I doubt Anduin would go gung-ho on immediately attacking what is for all intents and purposes a civilian city.
Before the Storm is adequate in that regards, but I feel an even stronger motive is needed. Something has to be the big inciting incident.

I also wholeheartedly believe that the most wasted storyline with potential in BfA is Saurfang's identity crisis about being a warrior for honor, who for a second or third time has been willingly dragged into a war of aggression.
Losing this aspect would also be a major loss to the Horde, who I think needed that storyline to really firmly place them in the good guys category, rather than the only ocassionally good one.

Hard to combine the two though. I do however think it's possible.

No thanks I don't want the Alliance to be the bad guy.

[Le Conceptuel]

No thanks I don't want the Alliance to be the bad guy.

To be the aggressor in a war does not always constitute villainy, and to be fighting against people who aren't mustache-twirling villains does not constitute villainy, either. You don't have to be the "bad guy" to do something wrong, or to be fighting a war you started. The plot could be more complex than demonizing either faction, and could be more like a real-world war in which people could have justification to root for their team regardless of which one it is.

In my opinion, neither faction should be the "bad guy". Both should be realistic, nuanced organizations with their own ups-and-downs.

[Nymrohd]

Heck Varian did start the war in Wrath but there was nothing villainous about starting a war against a faction of slavers and scientists who experiment on humans (and the odd leftover cannibal)

[Lahis]

Also WoW isn't a soft magic setting. What?

Soft magic setting is one where "a wizard did it" and "because it is cool" are valid explanations of why something works.

Hard magic setting has well defined and strict rules on how the magic system works.

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To be the aggressor in a war does not always constitute villainy, and to be fighting against people who aren't mustache-twirling villains does not constitute villainy, either. You don't have to be the "bad guy" to do something wrong, or to be fighting a war you started. The plot could be more complex than demonizing either faction, and could be more like a real-world war in which people could have justification to root for their team regardless of which one it is.

In my opinion, neither faction should be the "bad guy". Both should be realistic, nuanced organizations with their own ups-and-downs.

Blizzard can't write that much nuance. When somebody starts a war, Blizzard is incapable of writing them as anything but mustache twirling villains.

[Melorandor]

Is it confirmed that the Forbidden Reach is 10.1? What do you guys think the new zone in 10.1 is?

[Lahis]

Is it confirmed that the Forbidden Reach is 10.1? What do you guys think the new zone in 10.1 is?

Welcome. Hope it was not too damp under the rock you have been hiding.

No, Forbidden Reach is not 10.1. It Is 10.0.7. 10.1. will have some other unannounced zone.

[Nymrohd]

Is it confirmed that the Forbidden Reach is 10.1? What do you guys think the new zone in 10.1 is?

They posted a roadmap, you want to check it out
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...the-road-ahead

[Melorandor]

Welcome. Hope it was not too damp under the rock you have been hiding.

No, Forbidden Reach is not 10.1. It Is 10.0.7. 10.1. will have some other unannounced zone.

Ah right, I didn't see Forbidden Rich in with 10.0.7.

Not damp, just very cold. You'd understand

[Le Conceptuel]

Not damp, just very cold. You'd understand

It's good. I always end up a little out of the loop whenever I take a break.

[Melorandor]

It's good. I always end up a little out of the loop whenever I take a break.

MMO-champion never ceases to amaze me with their smugness, and faux sense of self worth.

[Le Conceptuel]

MMO-champion never ceases to amaze me with their smugness, and faux sense of self worth.

Am I projecting that? If I am, it's unintentional. I'm being genuine that I tend to end up a little behind if I've been too embroiled in something other than World of Warcraft.

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WoW primarily is a hard magic setting.

Post-Chronicles, yes. Prior to Chronicles, different types of magic were largely interchangeable and it was difficult to pin down what the limitations of magic were and what its precise nature was.

[Nymrohd]

WoW primarily is a hard magic setting.

lol no, magic is very poorly defined in WoW. It can do whatever they want it to do and they keep adding new magic systems willy-nilly.

[Cherry123]

And so we return to the Alliance, Horde and Anduin, the dragon filler clearly does not give space for discussion

[Nymrohd]

What do you mean poorly defined? I'd argue WoW has some of the most diverse and defined Cosmologies in MMO history tbh...

Only verse that imo has it beat is FF, and that's only because its cosmic stuff only really shares a familiar foundation with the Light and its stuff, the Darkness and its stuff, and the Omicron, Dynamis, and other things connected with those main plotlines. There are also the Primals, those Ultima goons and whatnot, but it usually stems into the same Cosmic themes at the end of the day...

We are talking about the magic system. What makes magic in WoW work, how does it work, who can do what. These are all poorly defined in WoW. There are no clear rules behind the magic system. Not even the absolute basics (how do you cast a spell?) And the level of definition in the cosmology doesn't really have much to do with that (not that WoW's cosmology is that well defined).

And good god if you think the only verse that can beat it is FF you must not be very familiar with fantasy settings. How many do you want me to list that have better defined cosmologies AND magic systems? 10? 20?

[Raetary]

What do you mean poorly defined? I'd argue WoW has some of the most diverse and defined Cosmologies in MMO history tbh...

"Hard" and "Soft" magic refers to how strict and rule abiding a magic system is.

"Hard magic" means that there are set rules and standards established by which the magic has to strictly abide by.
"Soft magic" means that there are less or no rules and the magic is defined vaguely, it merely follows some vague guidelines that may or may not even exist.

In wow, any and all magic types can be used interchangably for any purpose, there are no strict standards by which magic in wow has to stick to and the internal mechanisms of each magic type is vaguely described at best, or not at all described at worst.
Warcraft is very much a soft magic fantasy.

[Le Conceptuel]

A magic system can be better described or better utilized, yes. But if it's not as big as diverse or not as crazy with its Cosmic Influence (doesn't help that this system AKA WoWs system also has clear explanations for magic and whatnot) then it's not gonna be the better Hard Magic System.

I think you're still missing the point. What was being said is that prior to Chronicles, Warcraft did not strictly adhere to a distinction between strictly-categorized fields of magic. The Cosmic Forces, at that point, did not exist as well-defined entities unto themselves with certain relations. Although there was some underpinning of that, the distinction between, say, Necromancy, Fel, and the Void was very ill-defined. Why I think introducing the Cosmic Forces was a mistake is because it contrived a hard distinction between different types of magic which were previously either interchangeable or at least possessed significant overlap.

[Nymrohd]

In terms of uniqueness and how it works, why wouldn't WoW be that high? I'm sure Lovecraft, Warhammer 40k, Elder Scrolls, etc have better explored Cosmologies or more simplistic ones that namely focus primarily on 1 Influence and whatnot based on itself, and sure those verses may be more powerful or better described, but I myself wouldn't consider that to be as crazy as WoWs imo, which takes aspects of all those things.

Those verses have hard magic concepts, yeah. And they may have beings above Sargeras or so based on scaling, but the Cosmology isn't as unique or as defined as WoWs simply off the fact that WoW not only rips from those cosmologies, but also does it to where similar rules may apply as well...

Also how are forces like the Light or Void, Arcane, etc not defined well? The Light has LOTS of clear cut definition regarding how it works, same with forces such as the Void, Death Magic, etc.

Lol dude. What is the hierarchy of the Light? What is its function in the cosmology? Are there competing factions? Can you name them and their leaders? How does the Light travel the cosmos? How does it construct its technology (light has so much tech but Naaru got no thumbs).
Keeping it in the Light I could go into the Malazan Books of the Fallen and show you the hierarchy of the Tiste Liosan, their history and how Kurald Thyrrlan came to be and fragmented, of their capital and of Osserc and his sons and daughters.
If we did Elder Scrolls it would be too easy since I'd just have to talk Meridia and the Colored Rooms since no one is really contesting her hold on the Light in that setting and that bitch is transparent.
But if you really want detail we can always go D&D.

ANd focused on one influence? Get a grip. You clearly do not know anything about fantasy. All of the examples you gave have complex cosmologies that focus on MULTIPLE influences.

[Le Conceptuel]

Yeah, but that's old lore...

That's my point. I'm saying the new lore should've been written with the old lore being taken into account.

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If we did Elder Scrolls it would be too easy

Welcome to the house of We.