Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Le Conceptuel]

The human questline isn't terrible, but isn't great either. Their heritage seems to revolve around Onyxia, which is kind of weird. It would've been nice if we delved into Stormwind's past instead (First War, Gnoll War, Gurubashi War), but alas. I also didn't like how during the flashback Windsor wasn't with Varian, Valeera and Broll. Blizzard writers either don't know about the comic or just decided to retcon it. Shaw was boring as always, but Vanessa was cool. I hope she and Cecilia will end up together. They're a good pair. It was also funny that Turalyon is never mentioned in the entire questline. I'm glad Blizzard finally listened and stopped shining a spotlight on characters like him.

I still find your evident distaste for the character to be superfluous – and mind you, I otherwise find you to be someone with very good judgment and sense, and I can't help but agree with many of your other opinions – and it frankly strikes me as a tad unfair. I at least believe I understand the origin of it, but I think it's a tad extreme and vastly inflates a particular quality of the character. Either way, I figure that the reason he didn't appear was more on account of his association with the Lightforged and Lordaeron taking primacy over any association he has with Stormwind. It seems like the point was to emphasize the (much too recent, much too truncated, much too limited in scope) history of Stormwind and its people, a facet in which Turalyon has no involvement. I personally find him far more tolerable than the likes of Anduin, and I hope to see him more often—but happenstance leaves us in agreement that it was good he didn't play too much of a role in this, as something so exclusively focused on Stormwind isn't his place.

re: the questline not being terrible, on that I also have to ardently disagree. I found it fairly insufferable due to the aforementioned derailment of Vanessa's character, and this really wasn't helped by the extraordinarily stilted dialogue. I have no clue how it came out this way, since the dialogue lately has been significantly less terrible than this, so I'm shocked we're back to Shadowlands-tier (nearly sub-Shadowlans-tier) dialogue. Back on the primary topic, I think she lost a great deal of depth, and it was a great shame.

[BaumanKing]

Either way, I figure that the reason he didn't appear was more on account of his association with the Lightforged and Lordaeron taking primacy over any association he has with Stormwind. It seems like the point was to emphasize the (much too recent, much too truncated, much too limited in scope) history of Stormwind and its people, a facet in which Turalyon has no involvement.

Tbf I can't agree with that. Not only is Turalyon now the regent of Stormwind, he also had huge ties to Stormwind in the past. He was Lothar's protege (hell, he even still wields the Great Royal Sword of Stormwind), he helped Varian secure his place as Stormwind's next king, he oversaw the repatriation of the citizens of Stormwind and the construction of the Deeprun Tram, and he has a huge statue at the entrance to Stormwind. So it's pretty obvious that Blizz writers aren't really interested in him. And sure, I hear a lot of excuses that he'll eventually play a role in the inevitable expansion about the Light, but that doesn't mean he should just sit on the bench the rest of the time, especially when it's appropriate to use him as a character. This questline could've shown us at least a sneak peak of Turalyon's reign and how it differs from Anduin's.

re: the questline not being terrible, on that I also have to ardently disagree.

Well, I just really enjoyed the orc questline with all of its callbacks and the return of forgotten characters, so I didn't really mind how lackluster the human questline was. I also didn't expect much anyway.

[Le Conceptuel]

Can you refocus on the subject of the thread please

Last I checked, BaumanKing and I are speaking specifically on the topic of content from 10.0.7, a patch which is, indeed, a patch for Dragonflight, so I don't see how this is deviating in the slightest.

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Tbf I can't agree with that. Not only is Turalyon now the regent of Stormwind, he also had huge ties to Stormwind in the past. He was Lothar's protege (hell, he even still wields the Great Royal Sword of Stormwind), he helped Varian secure his place as Stormwind's next king, he oversaw the repatriation of the citizens of Stormwind and the construction of the Deeprun Tram, and he has a huge statue at the entrance to Stormwind. So it's pretty obvious that Blizz writers aren't really interested in him. And sure, I hear a lot of excuses that he'll eventually play a role in the inevitable expansion about the Light, but that doesn't mean he should just sit on the bench the rest of the time, especially when it's appropriate to use him as a character. This questline could've shown us at least a sneak peak of Turalyon's reign and how it differs from Anduin's.

Eh, fair enough re: Turalyon having strong connections to Stormwind, but he still doesn't do much to represent the "heritage" of Stormwind, either, unless it were specifically in the framing you suggested of contrasting his new regime with those in the past. I'm still frankly hoping he gets used, as I think he's good as a sort of avatar of the Alliance in regards to both its best – orderly, religiously devout, and heroic – and worst – suspicious, zealous, and authoritarian – qualities.

Well, I just really enjoyed the orc questline with all of its callbacks and the return of forgotten characters, so I didn't really mind how lackluster the human questline was. I also didn't expect much anyway.

On that we agree. It's nice to see the Orcs finally get some respect after what seemed to be the last vestiges of their influence and culture seemingly disintegrated near the end of BfA. It was quite pathetic to see the state they were in at the time, so it's nice to see them get something going for them. I suppose they're going back to the Warcraft III era, at least, if not a tad further from their flanderized portrayals in MoP and BfA. The loss of the Warchief position will still sting, but actually returning the clans to prominence is something I can't help but applaud as a good decision. In spite of my bitterness with how they wasted Vanessa and the Defias, whoever wrote the Orc storyline was certainly the right person for the job. It's all very nice and helps to return their waning culture to prominence. Plus, we now have the more violent, unrepentant, and industrialized Mag'har to potentially bear the other excesses of the race and to preempt schizophrenic characterization for the primary bulk of the Orcish race going forward.

Hopefully this isn't just a fluke—seeing the Orcs vindicated is very cathartic after they've been getting the shaft for years on end. The implicit renaissance of Orcish culture is a pleasing and hopefully permanent development.

[Worldshaper]

I think the Human HA questline was great, honestly. So much nostalgia for questing in those zones. The Stormwind heritage really is best defined by the experiences we all had back in Vanilla, imo. Starting up in Northshire, travelling to Westfall to beat up the Defias, adventuring into Darkshire and the Searing Gorge, etc. I wish we had Redridge Mountains thrown in there as well, but you can't have it all.

If only every patch contained a couple of questlines such as these.

[Nymrohd]

I really don't see why you'd keep the AU and the MU orcs separate. The clan structure is nearly identical and the AU orcs likely have retained traditions the MU orcs lost.

[Sondrelk]

I think the Human HA questline was great, honestly. So much nostalgia for questing in those zones. The Stormwind heritage really is best defined by the experiences we all had back in Vanilla, imo. Starting up in Northshire, travelling to Westfall to beat up the Defias, adventuring into Darkshire and the Searing Gorge, etc. I wish we had Redridge Mountains thrown in there as well, but you can't have it all.

If only every patch contained a couple of questlines such as these.

Honestly I think the main issue with it is that it's not an especially focused experience. Feels like it should have scrapped either the Onyxia, or the Defias bit. As it is neither feels especially strong. You don't feel that much about the Onyxia bit seeing as the quest is not actually in Stormwind. And the Defias bit feels like it could have been better fleshed out.
Going back to Northshire was great though. And I love that they are actually setting up a new Defias leader to fight against in the future.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Hearing all of the comments about the Orc heritage questline really makes me want to do it, but I don't want to grind up to exalted on my Orc DK. Can you do it if you have reached exalted with Orgrimmar on ANY character? I just did the Tauren one yesterday and I wasn't exalted with TB on my Tauren.

What are the best heritage questlines?

[Gurahk]

I think the Human HA questline was great, honestly. So much nostalgia for questing in those zones. The Stormwind heritage really is best defined by the experiences we all had back in Vanilla, imo. Starting up in Northshire, travelling to Westfall to beat up the Defias, adventuring into Darkshire and the Searing Gorge, etc. I wish we had Redridge Mountains thrown in there as well, but you can't have it all.

If only every patch contained a couple of questlines such as these.

I think people are just disappointed considering how the orc questline was just filled with a ton more fanservice.

[Dracullus]

Hearing all of the comments about the Orc heritage questline really makes me want to do it, but I don't want to grind up to exalted on my Orc DK. Can you do it if you have reached exalted with Orgrimmar on ANY character? I just did the Tauren one yesterday and I wasn't exalted with TB on my Tauren.

What are the best heritage questlines?

Buy tabard, run Botanica, you will be done in hour or two. Every non allied race require Exalted for their questline, Tauren questline from this patch isn't heritage stuff.

[Gurahk]

I really don't see why you'd keep the AU and the MU orcs separate. The clan structure is nearly identical and the AU orcs likely have retained traditions the MU orcs lost.

One of the MU Mag'har in the Kosharg states that she's the last Mag'har of the Shadowmoon clan. Similarly, Lantressor of the Blade states that there's very few Burning Blade orcs, and as the supposed leader of the clan, it should "wither and die".
Obviously, these things can't happen with the existence of the AU clans, so either someone at Blizzard forgot about the AU Mag'har (which I heavily doubt considering the deep cuts in this questline) or they want to keep them seperate.

Granted, it's hard to keep them seperate in name considering Blizzard chose to call them Mag'har instead of something like "Ironbound". I could see maybe the outlands Mag'har changing their name, though I doubt it.

[Nightshade711]

With blizzard going back in and adding in old stuff with cosmetics… I hope druids can eventually get this cat form back as a cosmetic option.
(Obviously without the same mechanical advantages that this form had back in WoD)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Every non allied race require Exalted for their questline, Tauren questline from this patch isn't heritage stuff.

I haven't set foot in the Dragon Isles yet, I did the

EDIT just realized I had TB set to inactive, that's why I didn't see it in my rep list.

[Gurahk]

I really want a full list of all the possible interactions in the orc questline, apparently Ariok has something different to say if you did WoD. Same with Saurfang and the loyalist/honorable branching questlines.

[Le Conceptuel]

I really don't see why you'd keep the AU and the MU orcs separate. The clan structure is nearly identical and the AU orcs likely have retained traditions the MU orcs lost.

I can't really agree—I think the two have a fairly distinct culture. Whereas the Orcs of Durotar are all too familiar with extreme destruction and have been made averse to it due to recent events (for the third time, of course), and seem disillusioned with extreme industrialization and expansionism, the Mag'har have seemingly taken no such lessons to heart. They, unlike the Orcs of Durotar, have no interest in disavowing their history—and this certainly isn't helped by the fact they've had thirty whole years to reshape their culture around Garrosh's legacy. Their society is far more industrialized, far more militant, and far more unrepentant, than the Orcs of Durotar, so I could see a cultural schism between the two.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Honestly I think the main issue with it is that it's not an especially focused experience. Feels like it should have scrapped either the Onyxia, or the Defias bit. As it is neither feels especially strong. You don't feel that much about the Onyxia bit seeing as the quest is not actually in Stormwind. And the Defias bit feels like it could have been better fleshed out.
Going back to Northshire was great though. And I love that they are actually setting up a new Defias leader to fight against in the future.

The best parts was going back to old zones. It was worth the romp and yes I did want more but thats pretty typical response from me. If anything I kinda wished the Defias at least acknowledged Varian wasn't really that bad(Cause Varian wasn't written to face the Nobles but I think thats more on, its not the story the devs wanted to tell).

Least it wasn't one sided or "Alliance bad"

[Cheezits]

Today on random unexpected lore, the Niffen are apparently related to Grummels?

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1638689468075974660

[Le Conceptuel]

Today on random unexpected lore, the Niffen are apparently related to Grummels?

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1638689468075974660

Huh. That's an interesting development. As an extension, this also would mean they're related to Troggs in some capacity.

[Nymrohd]

I can't really agree—I think the two have a fairly distinct culture. Whereas the Orcs of Durotar are all too familiar with extreme destruction and have been made averse to it due to recent events (for the third time, of course), and seem disillusioned with extreme industrialization and expansionism, the Mag'har have seemingly taken no such lessons to heart. They, unlike the Orcs of Durotar, have no interest in disavowing their history—and this certainly isn't helped by the fact they've had thirty whole years to reshape their culture around Garrosh's legacy. Their society is far more industrialized, far more militant, and far more unrepentant, than the Orcs of Durotar, so I could see a cultural schism between the two.

The thing is, how many escaped? It was supposed to be a tiny portal in time, barely open long enough for us to cross . . .
But hey, Void elves everywhere.

[Le Conceptuel]

The thing is, how many escaped? It was supposed to be a tiny portal in time, barely open long enough for us to cross . . .
But hey, Void elves everywhere.

Hrm, that's fair—still, they seem to at least have something of a sustainable population, and WoW tends to play fast and loose (as you've lampshaded) with population numbers anyway. However, you are right that there's a fairly small population shown at the end of the quest proper, but that could just be taken as abstraction.

I think, solely in the interest of benefiting the story, the Mag'har are fine to inflate insofar as they maintain a consistent character and are used to their fullest potential.

[Nymrohd]

Hrm, that's fair—still, they seem to at least have something of a sustainable population, and WoW tends to play fast and loose (as you've lampshaded) with population numbers anyway. However, you are right that there's a fairly small population shown at the end of the quest proper, but that could just be taken as abstraction.

I think, solely in the interest of benefiting the story, the Mag'har are fine to inflate insofar as they maintain a consistent character and are used to their fullest potential.

Honestly I found the way that scenario ended utterly ridiculous. The portal apparently stays up long enough for not just every clan to send people over but even random Botani and Saberon to hop in while in the middle of a battlefield yet the Lightforged did not get through even though they absolutely dominated the battlefield on the other side (which would have set up a great plot hook but alas). Meanwhile we are told the portal will barely stay up for us to go in and out and we barely make it.

Imagine if Garrosh Lightscream had gone through and that's how we got the Light Crusade future expac; he meets Liadrin's adopted daughter, they assault the Caverns of Time and find a way to wibbly wobbly timey wimey connect AU Draenor with MU Outland.