[Spoilers] This Cinematic is real?

[mickybrighteyes]

As it stands the Zandalari were second hand learners since it was the Mogu who tought them it. Also if you look at the wiki you will see that most mages with big names are human. The blood elves lost Kael'thas and the Nightborne Elisande. Who were arguabely the strongest magic users of these races. Rommath and Thalyssra hold no waters in a direct confrontation. I remember Thaly running away from Jaina in fear during the scenario to break Talanji free from prison.

Something to note... the issue still comes in that the average magisters among other races are still miles ahead of the average human version in the field. While there ARE more special and unique mages that happen to be human, they are woefully NOT the norm. Also Jaina was hyped up on villain arc energy and was made to be far above and beyond everyone.

And it's still hilarious to argue that Zandalari are second hand learners.... cause so are humans. Mind you that the same magisters among humans can include those who have also transitioned into undeath and kept their knowledge and mental faculties (and lost a lot of safety limiters because... reasons....).

Basically, Allaince still has some of the Shendralar and a few high elves to accompany the human magisters....

But the horde still has 2 nations that are almost exclusively run by magister favoring denizens and a smattering of other magically gifted groups extra that also includes some with humanities affinities still present despite their physical/mental conditions.

Using the hero tier as proof kind of falls into a certain other problem.

[Aucald]

As it stands the Zandalari were second hand learners since it was the Mogu who tought them it. Also if you look at the wiki you will see that most mages with big names are human. The blood elves lost Kael'thas and the Nightborne Elisande. Who were arguabely the strongest magic users of these races. Rommath and Thalyssra hold no waters in a direct confrontation. I remember Thaly running away from Jaina in fear during the scenario to break Talanji free from prison.

The Mogu as direct creations of the Keepers don't really count given they're intrinsically magical and don't really do much studying of the Arcane beyond their own intrinsic abilities - they might have instructed the early trolls, but it was the trolls who formalized magical knowledge and actually approached it from a disciplined standpoint. I also think you're discounting Rommath, Thalyssra, and also Oculeth, Valtroix, and Aethas unnecessarily. Hell, I'd say Oculeth is probably the most dangerous Mage second to perhaps Jaina - his command of the obscure discipline of telemancy is frightening in its application. Thalyssra isn't a combat monster in the same way that Jaina is, she's a scholar and researcher first, but her command of magic is powerful as is her wisdom born of having lived for thousands of years. Raw power isn't the sole coin of the realm when it comes to magic, after all.

[Grazrug]

Something to note... the issue still comes in that the average magisters among other races are still miles ahead of the average human version in the field. While there ARE more special and unique mages that happen to be human, they are woefully NOT the norm. Also Jaina was hyped up on villain arc energy and was made to be far above and beyond everyone.

And it's still hilarious to argue that Zandalari are second hand learners.... cause so are humans. Mind you that the same magisters among humans can include those who have also transitioned into undeath and kept their knowledge and mental faculties (and lost a lot of safety limiters because... reasons....).

Basically, Allaince still has some of the Shendralar and a few high elves to accompany the human magisters....

But the horde still has 2 nations that are almost exclusively run by magister favoring denizens and a smattering of other magically gifted groups extra that also includes some with humanities affinities still present despite their physical/mental conditions.

Using the hero tier as proof kind of falls into a certain other problem.

Thalyssra's main thing seems to be barriers. I have never seen her employing magic that could be used for combat.

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The Mogu as direct creations of the Keepers don't really count given they're intrinsically magical and don't really do much studying of the Arcane beyond their own intrinsic abilities - they might have instructed the early trolls, but it was the trolls who formalized magical knowledge and actually approached it from a disciplined standpoint. I also think you're discounting Rommath, Thalyssra, and also Oculeth, Valtroix, and Aethas unnecessarily. Hell, I'd say Oculeth is probably the most dangerous Mage second to perhaps Jaina - his command of the obscure discipline of telemancy is frightening in its application. Thalyssra isn't a combat monster in the same way that Jaina is, she's a scholar and researcher first, but her command of magic is powerful as is her wisdom born of having lived for thousands of years. Raw power isn't the sole coin of the realm when it comes to magic, after all.

If I had to rank them then Khadgar and Jaina would be on top for serveral reasons. Then comes the rest of the council of the six and THEN the elf mages.

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Alright. Yes that IS what shadows riding shows....

You seem to be under the impression that benefiting from being defended from one internal threat is grounds to tie the nation to a faction that has done nothing but cause your nation's dmg.

I know what shadows rising set up... but simply having a lucky person set up as a guard isn't really worth much. Zandalar allying with a equally devastated horde in a fashion like the Darkspear did to Orgrimmar isn't going to be a direct help anymore than just attempting to achieve positive relations with all the various powers that be.

Hell the assassins in the novel were also spurred into action by the antics that presented themselves in BFA...

Pretty much this yes. I doubt Apari would have gotten ANY support if the Horde had actually helped to defeat the alliance forces before Jaina made sure they could escape. The Horde failed the Zandalari and from a political standpoint all the Horde ever did for Zandalar was to cause damage and uprising. All major problems (Mythrax, G'huun, Zul, Sethrak etc.) were handled by the Zandalari themselves. The Horde was not needed for that. The opposite is true in Kul Tiras for the alliance since the PC made sure they had the support of all other major houses before they ousted Ashvane and convinced Katherine to join with the blue team in union once more.

[Aucald]

If I had to rank them then Khadgar and Jaina would be on top for serveral reasons. Then comes the rest of the council of the six and THEN the elf mages.

If we were ranking solely on offensive capability, perhaps; but that's a shortsighted and rather one-sided way of going about it. Thalyssra is adept at barriers, some minor knowledge of chronomancy, ley line manipulation, and some noteworthy feats of meta-magic. She'd be indispensable if say the Horde wanted to create their own ley nexus and set up a powerful communal focus for Arcane engineering, or perhaps set up Arcane fortifications for their many settlements. Oculeth can no doubt wire the Horde for sound with expansive portal networks, easing infrastructure and resolving logistical concerns across the far-flung Horde holdings. Thinking solely in terms of who can toss the biggest fireball is a failure of imagination.

[Grazrug]

If we were ranking solely on offensive capability, perhaps; but that's a shortsighted and rather one-sided way of going about it. Thalyssra is adept at barriers, some minor knowledge of chronomancy, ley line manipulation, and some noteworthy feats of meta-magic. She'd be indispensable if say the Horde wanted to create their own ley nexus and set up a powerful communal focus for Arcane engineering, or perhaps set up Arcane fortifications for their many settlements. Oculeth can no doubt wire the Horde for sound with expansive portal networks, easing infrastructure and resolving logistical concerns across the far-flung Horde holdings. Thinking solely in terms of who can toss the biggest fireball is a failure of imagination.

All the great elf mages died during the Sundering and the Scourge razing Quel'thalas. So it is quite easy for the human mages to shine since they are apprentices of legendary arch mages like Antonidas and Medivh.

[voidox]

as a side not, one thing that is baffling to me, a lot of people are leaving comments about this cinematic saying: "why are you hating on this? who cares about Malfurion as he hasn't done anything in years"... like that's exactly the point of issue here, Blizzard had the perfect chance to use Malfurion, and they wasted him on this stupid "sacrifice and balance" nonsense :/

[Shadowferal]

Goblins would beg to disagree.

...and every druid out there.

[Mehrunes]

*Raid Stormwind without dealing any lasting damage and kill a bunch of redhsirts and one big wig… And the real Big Bad escapes eventually to live for another expansion.

Also BEFORE that your faction gets so utterly stomped that you have to dig yourself out of the shit pile to even breathe.

You forgot the part where the Horde would have to be the one to attack first and then only manage to survive because the Alliance imploded into infighting, after which they would go scot free despite being the aggressor for that to be truly equivalent.

The "representation" of the Kaldorei that you say is that the characters ever appear on the screen? I think all factions are represented then.
For example, Baien has been appearing in all the expansions almost since Pandaria. (Of course I would not call it a Tauren Representation but an insult to the Taurens)

Baine doesn't count as Tauren representation under any circumstances because his presence is a case of human representation as he's nothing more than a hemorrhoid on Anduin's rectum. So not the best example.

[Aucald]

All the great elf mages died during the Sundering and the Scourge razing Quel'thalas. So it is quite easy for the human mages to shine since they are apprentices of legendary arch mages like Antonidas and Medivh.

Most of the "great" elven Mages who died in the Third War only have backstage credibility like Belo'vir, who we know almost nothing about. Quel'Thalas itself was founded by Mage survivors of the Sundering like Dath'remar, who was the founder of the Sunstrider line. Antonidas also died in the Third War, and Medivh died well before it and is nowhere near as powerful as he was as the Guardian. Jaina and Khadgar are two powerful human Mages, yes, but Khadgar is neutral. Jaina, too, has had her moments of what we could charitably call power incontinence as well, such as when she was unable to take out a Blood Elven mook with an Arcane Blast.

[Grazrug]

Most of the "great" elven Mages who died in the Third War only have backstage credibility like Belo'vir, who we know almost nothing about. Quel'Thalas itself was founded by Mage survivors of the Sundering like Dath'remar, who was the founder of the Sunstrider line. Antonidas also died in the Third War, and Medivh died well before it and is nowhere near as powerful as he was as the Guardian. Jaina and Khadgar are two powerful human Mages, yes, but Khadgar is neutral. Jaina, too, has had her moments of what we could charitably call power incontinence as well, such as when she was unable to take out a Blood Elven mook with an Arcane Blast.

Point to the matter is that Blizzard has failed to establish big elven mage characters to this date. Now with the new hearthstone xpac they try to sell Astalor and Rommath as big guns but it ahs no backing from the canon lore of WoW. The elven mages mostly stand in the background doing nothing noteworthy. But with Jaina we see her in Ardenweald blasting Mawsworn from the sky and Khadgar has been a major player in at least 4 expansions since TBC. It is a basic rule. If you ain't human Blizzard doesn't care about you. In DF we see it again. Most dragons took a human visage.

[Syegfryed]

You really missing all the points here.

Maybe because the point make no sense or does not reflect reality.

Yes please, just take Cata, MoP and BfA, flip it over, paint blue and put back. Ta-da! Thats what Alliance is asking for.

You are getting, you just need to wait until a night elf leader or Tuyralyion goes murder hobo and e have to raid stormwind, only missing that rly.

It may never happen because blizzard in fact, have a bias with the alliance and if they cry loud enough, they will not villain bat their leaders

The amount of damage dealt to damage taken is almost laughably in Horde’s favour.

moving goalposts, yet any damage dealt still makes the factions even or in alliance favour, every time.

If Malf died after ravaging half the Kalimdor in a rampage like Garrosh once did , nobody would have bat an eye.

YOU think so, maybe YOU want this, sadly, your thoughs are not shared by majority of the loud alliance

The fact they got Calia also was noticed by Blizz and she basically got reduced into just another council member

for now, its delusional to think she is not going to be the next leader

and a council member still is a leader anyway

Cata to MoP and BfA felt like a streak of losses to Alliance

Except, they always end up better, and with more victorie, as getting ashenvale yet again at the end of mop and becoming the super-power after raiding and sacking the enemy capital, and after bfa when thy on every single battlefront

[Cheezits]

Most dragons took a human visage.

Wrathion, Sabellian and arguably Kalecgos (if you count odd looking half elf appearance) is "most dragons"? The aspects are primarily elf visages as are most of the quest characters with some one offs like the Dwarf, Vulpera and Chromie.

Neltharion counts but he isn't present.

[Mehrunes]

If Malf died after ravaging half the Kalimdor in a rampage like Garrosh once did , nobody would have bat an eye.

But the Horde didn't really do much of ravaging in Kalimdor under Garrosh. They got stuck in Ashenvale, where most of their progress was then undone during the Alliance questline on top of that, all the while having to deal with their core territory being invaded by a swarm of human clone troopers. Almost every Kalimdor zone that started as contested when Garrosh came into power remained contested after he was dethroned, with the exception of Azshara (which was peacefully ceded by the Alliance only after the fact) and Dustwallow Marsh, because Theramore never had any Horde equivalent in the first place (which I'm sure somehow still constitutes HORDE BIAS). Most of decisive Horde victories in Cataclysm happened in Lordaeron.

Also Forsaken got to keep their stark streak of victories, only disrupted by one L when they lost Undercity… but they lost it on their terms and blew Alliance forces to kingdom come with it.

And if the Alliance didn't have plot armor thicker than a galaxy they wouldn't be able to even land on Tirisfal's shores before being blown into smithereens and then they would have been wiped out like four or five more times after that.

The fact they got Calia also was noticed by Blizz and she basically got reduced into just another council member and their PR face to keep Alliance looking at her and not at plague factory. Hell, i even saw threads on Lore forum praising the decision to reduce her from Sylvanas replacement to just basically mistrusted council member with a cute mug.

Please. Blizzard has been trying to shove Calia as the new leader of the Forsaken in an effort to Blanduinize the last race uncorrupted by that plot tumor for years now and they only backed down the first time because of massive backlash. Now they succeeded in embedding her into Forsaken despite yet another round of backlash, with the "it's totally a council guys, don't worry about us trying to shit on the Forsaken because we're totally not doing that teehee" being nothing more than a smokescreen to achieve that. As showcased by Calia actually starting to act on her new role immediately afterwards (with, lo and behold, a proposal of Alliance appeasement) while the rest just fiddled their thumbs. The "council" will end up being nothing more than Calia running things as was Blizzard's goal already back in BfA, with the rest being just a bunch of yes-men rubber-stamping any "let's bend over for our human overlords" proposal she pukes out.

[Grazrug]

But the Horde didn't really do much of ravaging in Kalimdor under Garrosh. They got stuck in Ashenvale, where most of their progress was then undone during the Alliance questline on top of that, all the while having to deal with their core territory being invaded by a swarm of human clone troopers. Almost every Kalimdor zone that started as contested when Garrosh came into power remained contested after he was dethroned, with the exception of Azshara (which was peacefully ceded by the Alliance only after the fact) and Dustwallow Marsh, because Theramore never had any Horde equivalent in the first place (which I'm sure somehow still constitutes HORDE BIAS). Most of decisive Horde victories in Cataclysm happened in Lordaeron.




And if the Alliance didn't have plot armor thicker than a galaxy they wouldn't be able to even land on Tirisfal's shores before being blown into smithereens and then they would have been wiped out like four or five more times after that.




Please. Blizzard has been trying to shove Calia as the new leader of the Forsaken in an effort to Blanduinize the last race uncorrupted by that plot tumor for years now and they only backed down the first time because of massive backlash. Now they succeeded in embedding her into Forsaken despite yet another round of backlash, with the "it's totally a council guys, don't worry about us trying to shit on the Forsaken because we're totally not doing that teehee" being nothing more than a smokescreen to achieve that. As showcased by Calia actually starting to act on her new role immediately afterwards (with, lo and behold, a proposal of Alliance appeasement) while the rest just fiddled their thumbs. The "council" will end up being nothing more than Calia running things as was Blizzard's goal already back in BfA, with the rest being just a bunch of yes-men rubber-stamping any "let's bend over for our human overlords" proposal she pukes out.

I gonna frame this and hang it over my bed. If anyone actually believes Horde bias is real just take a look at our leader cast and what those leaders do. There is no faction pride gained from such pushovers for maximum alliance appeasement.

[Arlette]

Grazrug is back turning every thread into how the Horde is the victim in everything. Reminds me of those Night Elf posters on the official forums.

[Yarathir]

It wasn't, it was only in BFA, they would let go by now, but night elves fan can't shut the fuck up about it asking for compensation, this is blizzard way of trying to do.

They would be better if they just stopped asking for development

Well, when they never got anything but a boot in the face, they're going to talk about it.
Lol.
(Also, no, it's been since MoP. Everyone remembers the "A Little Patience" bullshit.)

[Mehrunes]

I gonna frame this and hang it over my bed. If anyone actually believes Horde bias is real just take a look at our leader cast and what those leaders do. There is no faction pride gained from such pushovers for maximum alliance appeasement.

Knock yourself out, I suppose.

[baskev]

The night elves have alone more leading characters then the entire horde combined. More then the humans even. They got their land back and they feature in every expansion since MoP. What else do you want? Tha majority of Horde races get zero representation.

euuuhhh who? Malfurion = gone ( again), his brother mr not prepared also gone. You have that "new" daughter of tyrande and tyrande? who else?

And zero representation...you have had several expansions worth of story telling, horde main focus. BFA? saurfang/sylvannas, garrosh, garrosh and the iron horde etc?
hell lets count city's. alliance has stormwind, ironforge, exodar , boralus.
Horde has: silvermoon, lorderaon, thunder bluff, ogrimmar, high mountian, suramar city, zandalari city, goblin town above ogrimmar etc etc.

And gotten their land back? ingame its currently still broken, and they have no capitol in lore right now. and lol back...2 are totally trashed, littered with the dead and everything is destroyed/death camps on it. the other is burned to a crisp... here have your home back after its burned down....

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Well, that's Elune's fault. She could have saved them. Instead she sacrificed those who died in Teldrassil in an attempt to help the Winter Queen get anima. She didn't know that Argus' soul broke the Arbiter and so those souls went to the Maw instead. But then again, she is just an "upstart 'goddess'" after all.

As for Darkshore, it stays "in contention" for game reasons. In terms of actual lore, Night Elves have uncontested control over it again. It just is staying the way it was in BfA so people on both factions can still farm the rares, etc.

Is it? we do not know what she is. Or why she has not helped before. And she did try to help. So first part is pure speculation. For all we know she is doing everything in her power, or nothing at all.

So they got darkshore back...whats left of it....after the destruction and all the death. Here, have your house back after we trashed it beyond repair :S.

Do not get me wrong horde has also had its share of bad luck.

But night elves only have tyrande left, the rest is gone or dead.
Out of their 3 zones. in lore 2 are left but completly broken, 1 is burned. And yes we got a new world tree...and those grow in 1 day :S

[Aucald]

Point to the matter is that Blizzard has failed to establish big elven mage characters to this date. Now with the new hearthstone xpac they try to sell Astalor and Rommath as big guns but it ahs no backing from the canon lore of WoW. The elven mages mostly stand in the background doing nothing noteworthy. But with Jaina we see her in Ardenweald blasting Mawsworn from the sky and Khadgar has been a major player in at least 4 expansions since TBC. It is a basic rule. If you ain't human Blizzard doesn't care about you. In DF we see it again. Most dragons took a human visage.

I don't really think the spotlight itself is big enough for iconic class characters from every single race in WoW, and there are always secondary and tertiary positions that need to be filled. Jaina is basically WoW's iconic Mage in the same way that Thrall is its iconic Shaman, Chen is its iconic Monk, and so on. I don't really begrudge Jaina's role in BfA and then Shadowlands due to the fact that she was involved in the plot beyond her just being WoW's go-to Mage and so forth. I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea that most dragons take human Visages, either - the vast majority of dragons seem to favor High Elven Visages, where they're not Night Elves. The only Aspect with a human Visage is Neltharion, and a few other members of the Black Dragonflight opt for human Visages. Alexstraza, Nozdormu, Soridormi, Ysera, Merithra, Tyragosa, Sindragosa, Malygos, Azuregos, Haleh, Kairozdormu, Eranikus, Itharius, Valithria, and so forth all use elven Visages.

[Hobbidaggy]

I mean, Malfurion is still around, he's just not going to be on Azeroth for the while. Dudes prolly gonna spend time there, similar to how he spent time in the Dream. Would actually be perfect for his character, since he's done fuck all since Legion ngl (outside of some out of game shit and that 1 cinematic in 8.1 where he beat up some peeps and threatened a regular ass Horde dude).

Yo…don’t point out the facts man. How are people supposed to be outraged? Nobody cared that he slept for like 10,000 years in the burrows and went off and played in the Emerald Dream, but going to Ardenweald temporarily so that Ysera can rebuild the green flight and help restore the Aspect powers, and then return back there allowing Malfurion to return again permanently (until Ysera needs to come back again/if that even needs to happen once her daughter takes over) that’s all asking too much apparently. It’s also not like nobody can visit him in Ardenweald….it’s exactly like visiting the Emerald Dream….just a different realm, same travel method.

He might even learn some new powers and can enjoy planting soul seeds in the gardens.

This is actually win/win. Ysera can come back and do Ysera stuff and Malfurion gets to come and go like he would do anyway with his long sleeps in the Emerald Dream.

But hey don’t let me take away from your outrage simply because it’s a Denuser story and being angry at everything he does is the new trend these days.