[Spoilers] This Cinematic is real?

[Grazrug]

euuuhhhhhhh we lost many of our people's. of our 3 zones we have 1 thats broken ( ashenvale), 1 thats a litteral death camp ( darkshore), 1 that is a chared piece of liveless wood ( teldrassil). Several of mostly ( but also other druids) spirits like ursoc etc have died. Some are stuck like Ysera was in shadowlands. Ohhh and unlike many other deaths. Many of our souls where used as "ammo" by the jailor......

Sooo.........

The night elves have alone more leading characters then the entire horde combined. More then the humans even. They got their land back and they feature in every expansion since MoP. What else do you want? Tha majority of Horde races get zero representation.

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There is no evidence to say that. Because at no time were we told that nobody is willing to help the Kaldorei. (Except the Warguens who did receive it with pleasure).

It is made clear to us that they are not interested in peace and they burn Anduin's letters... But Anduin sent letters... that is not help and surely letters talking about how to make peace with the Horde (and give more things from the Kaldorei to the Horde).

PS: And back. In Tasting and Vanilla. The Green Dragons did not help defend the forest either.

At least the night elves have the option to ignore the peace treaty. The Zandalari were black mailed by the Horde council to accept it. The trolls are doing much worse and nobody seems to care.

[Aucald]

At least the night elves have the option to ignore the peace treaty. The Zandalari were black mailed by the Horde council to accept it. The trolls are doing much worse and nobody seems to care.

The Zandalari still have a capital city that isn't a smoking ruin against the night sky, so I'd say relative to the Night Elves they're doing just fine.

[Grazrug]

The Zandalari still have a capital city that isn't a smoking ruin against the night sky, so I'd say relative to the Night Elves they're doing just fine.

They lost their fleet, their army, and their leader. The person who is now in charge of them has to make compromises with a government that has ceded all her pleas to take action against Kul Tiras. But for any night elf, any Horde member who gets too close to the border towards Ashenvale is free game and to be killed on sight. And If I saw the last cinematic correctly, then that seed from the winter queen will grow them a new world tree where they can live.

[Aucald]

It's a shame that the Draenei/Kaldorei relationship kind of fell off in time (also: Tauren and Forsaken) but it is surprisingly realistic that those close ties may falter over the years.

For the Draenei and Kaldorei, I'd say a lot of that comes down to their societies just not having much in common. Even for elder and long-lived races, they're very different and have very different values and beliefs - such as when Velen came to Teldrassil and immediately put his foot in his mouth as concerns the Night Elves' religion. It is realistic that despite their proximity they wouldn't really have a strong relationship, so to speak.

[Hctaz]

While I don't really think the whole "slap in the face" argument holds much water considering Malfurion isn't really dead and is more or less still in the cooler where he usually is, I do agree there's no need to bring Ysera back after her death in Legion, doubly so in light of the fact that she's still a shade in Shadowlands. Just make Merithra the new Green Aspect in her stead, pass the torch on to a new character, and so forth. Ysera had a good death and a touching denouement, bringing her back to life through this kind of external wizardry just cheapens both stories.

Agree.

Here, I'll write you a quick summary of how the Blue Dragonflight kerfuffle would have gone down in Cata if we're using modern lore.

Kalecgos would go on his journey to become the next Blue Aspect. He'd get betrayed. The betrayer dude would set up some magical bomb that would harness the magical energies capable of "destroying the world ten. times. OVER," that we hear about every time we enter EoE from Malygos.

Kalec goes, "OH GEE, there is only one person who can stop this from happening. I will die now and somehow my death will bring back Malygos and also cleanse him of his hatred of humans."

Then Malygos comes back and saves the world while Kalec dies thinking of Anveena. The end.

[Aucald]

They lost their fleet, their army, and their leader. The person who is now in charge of them has to make compromises with a government that has ceded all her pleas to take action against Kul Tiras. But for any night elf, any Horde member who gets too close to the border towards Ashenvale is free game and to be killed on sight. And If I saw the last cinematic correctly, then that seed from the winter queen will grow them a new world tree where they can live.

The Kaldorei lost the majority of their people, became an endangered race, and are now essentially homeless to boot. The Zandalari have political issues in the Horde, the Kaldorei are on the knife's edge of disappearing as a culture altogether. So yeah, the Zandalari are doing fine comparatively, it's not even a contest one can take seriously. It'd be like saying Ironforge got a worse deal out of the Third War than Quel'Thalas did.

The Zandalari don't need to rely on a Soul Seed that may or may not regrow a World Tree for them, depending on the vagaries of the future. They've at least got the security of still having essential shelter and a home of their own.

[Grazrug]

The Kaldorei lost the majority of their people, became an endangered race, and are now essentially homeless to boot. The Zandalari have political issues in the Horde, the Kaldorei are on the knife's edge of disappearing as a culture altogether. So yeah, the Zandalari are doing fine comparatively, it's not even a contest one can take seriously. It'd be like saying Ironforge got a worse deal out of the Third War than Quel'Thalas did.

The Zandalari don't need to rely on a Soul Seed that may or may not regrow a World Tree for them, depending on the vagaries of the future. They've at least got the security of still having essential shelter and a home of their own.

You know my take on this already. As we saw in the last novel, the Zandalari are on their last leg. They can't even stop a handful of disorganized rebels without asking the rest of the Horde for help. They are a dead race. They lost everything during the 8.1 raid. And as we know of Exploring Azeroth Kalimdor, Darkshore and Ashenvale are again under night elf control. Zandalari don't even control the continent they orginate from. 2/3 of it is hostile and barren.

[Syegfryed]

It's been "night elves turn" since at least Mists of Pandaria, dude. What the hell are you talking about?

It wasn't, it was only in BFA, they would let go by now, but night elves fan can't shut the fuck up about it asking for compensation, this is blizzard way of trying to do.

They would be better if they just stopped asking for development

[Aucald]

You know my take on this already. As we saw in the last novel, the Zandalari are on their last leg. They can't even stop a handful of disorganized rebels without asking the rest of the Horde for help. They are a dead race. They lost everything during the 8.1 raid. And as we know of Exploring Azeroth Kalimdor, Darkshore and Ashenvale are again under night elf control. Zandalari don't even control the continent they orginate from. 2/3 of it is hostile and barren.

I do know your take, yes. I also recognize you have a rather extreme bias that, in many cases, is a bit divorced from the reality of what is actually going on in-game. You're more than welcome to your subjective take and the specific emphasis you place on your favored faction and/or groups, but on the same token, your specific take is largely outside what would be considered the mainstream views of the fictional universe of WoW.

Darkshore has been thoroughly wrecked by war and is a haunted wasteland with practically no fauna left as of Exploring Azeroth: Kalimdor. Sure, the Kaldorei control it, for all the good that does that them. Ashenvale is still haunted by border skirmishes with the Horde despite the ongoing Alliance/Horde armistice, so calling it "under control" is pushing matters considerably. The Zandalari, by comparison, had the Horde's help in removing the bulk of their enemies from their own lands, with the Blood Trolls and hostile Faithless Sethrak having been effectively eliminated. The Isle of Zandalar is under their control, now; and even the token resistance of the Blood Troll remnant has been expunged as of Shadows Rising. They've got problems, sure; but their problems are minor league compared to the plight of the Night Elves.

[VladlTutushkin]

It all boils down to the point when you wan the horde to be erased from the game and/or all of their one cities burned and destroyed, despite happening already with undercity. The said "fair compensations" am i right

No, he doesn't as you got Varian back immediately, while we had to wait two fucking years without a troll leader. we lost Thrall and Garrosh, that is 3x2 buddy, You don't rly want to talk about cover, the disparity of horde losing characters and leaders is too big compared to the alliance, and you know it



You are right, we didn't got that far yet, thats why i said y'all are luck stil.

But im eager to raid stormwind twice and kill and defeat the current faction leader, together with the alliance itself killing their own people and named characters.

that is indeed proper horde story

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Well, they already retconed shit from one patch ago previously, one expansion is profit

*Raid Stormwind without dealing any lasting damage and kill a bunch of redhsirts and one big wig… And the real Big Bad escapes eventually to live for another expansion.

Also BEFORE that your faction gets so utterly stomped that you have to dig yourself out of the shit pile to even breathe.

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The Kaldorei have all but seceded from the Alliance as it stands now, so that's not really an alteration of any real weight to the current story. As I said previously, I don't blame Tyrande and the Night Elves in general for feeling spurned, they're entitled to their sense of abandonment on an emotional level. On a pragmatic level, though; the Alliance still did the right thing in terms of the greater war surrounding Teldrassil, and that is borne out in the overall result of the war.

If the Kaldorei left the Alliance they'd still have the Draenei in Azuremyst, although their position in Kalimdor would be greatly diminished.

Azuremyst gives Alliance exactly zero presence on Kalimdor, its not even Teldrassil , its and island entirely separated from the continent and extremely easy to blockade.

Also speaking from “in universe” standpoint Alliance finished war poorly, without any real concrete guarantee that Horde will not attack them again any time soon.

[Nymrohd]

I just think that a much better story could be told by sending Tyrande to Ardenweald instead. Throughout WoW Tyrande has been the central character of the Night Elves, not Malfurion. Malf usually is in the background. Tyrande staying could be explained by involving Elune in this and Malf would get a chance to lead the Night Elves for a spell. They would be placing a character that has actually been overused in the fridge and giving another that has been underused a chance to show up.

[Cheezits]

You know my take on this already. As we saw in the last novel, the Zandalari are on their last leg. They can't even stop a handful of disorganized rebels without asking the rest of the Horde for help. They are a dead race. They lost everything during the 8.1 raid. And as we know of Exploring Azeroth Kalimdor, Darkshore and Ashenvale are again under night elf control. Zandalari don't even control the continent they orginate from. 2/3 of it is hostile and barren.

We don't know the current status of Zandalar. Shadows Rising was about Talanji fixing the last remaining threats on Zandalar, changing her relationship with Bwonsamdi to one of more mutual respect, and cementing her alliance with the Horde which had been tested by the latter half of BFA. However that was 4~ years ago in-game.

They can't be doing THAT badly if Talanji willingly attended a neutral wedding event, she didn't even try to kill any Alliance there (though this may have been because the Jaina, Genn and Mekkatorque were absent).

[VladlTutushkin]

It wasn't, it was only in BFA, they would let go by now, but night elves fan can't shut the fuck up about it asking for compensation, this is blizzard way of trying to do.

They would be better if they just stopped asking for development

People asking for POSITIVE development. Not being fucked again and again.

Imagine if Foreskins were treated that way? You cant? Cause they were not used as punching bags for decades.

[geco]

The night elves have alone more leading characters then the entire horde combined. More then the humans even. They got their land back and they feature in every expansion since MoP. What else do you want? Tha majority of Horde races get zero representation.

The Kaldorei have this 6 main characters?
It's not that the Kaldorei have "many" it's that the Horde have little.
Nope they didn't really get the land back from him. They recover dark coast yes... but in such a destroyed state that it is completely useless.

The "representation" of the Kaldorei that you say is that the characters ever appear on the screen? I think all factions are represented then.
For example, Baien has been appearing in all the expansions almost since Pandaria. (Of course I would not call it a Tauren Representation but an insult to the Taurens)

At least the night elves have the option to ignore the peace treaty. The Zandalari were black mailed by the Horde council to accept it. The trolls are doing much worse and nobody seems to care.

"Ignore" You have to comply but they may not sign it.
Apart from Telanji having it worse she doesn't make the Kaldorei suddenly have it acceptable.

What exactly do the Kaldorei need from a material sense, then? Food? They can use their Druidic magic to basically grow their own, as demonstrated in BfA when they were briefly refugees in Elywnn. Building materials? They live with nature, and when they do deign to make use of buildings often grow their own in communion with nature. Laborers? They use wisps so as not to harm the forests. Money? For what purpose, their society isn't very mercantile. On a practical level, the only thing the Alliance really had to offer the Kaldorei was mutual defense, and they dropped the ball on that one from the Night Elves' perspective.

The capital is made of stone and the elves wear cloth. They have furniture...etc.
They use manufactures and in large quantities. There is room to help or at least to try. If they make an effort to say that the Alliance abandoned them (It says it in Kalimndor although it is clearly the word of a Troll) and they never speak to us of any kind of help in 3 years.

The logical thing is to assume that the Alliance is not looking to help them.

[Aucald]

Azuremyst gives Alliance exactly zero presence on Kalimdor, its not even Teldrassil , its and island entirely separated from the continent and extremely easy to blockade.

Also speaking from “in universe” standpoint Alliance finished war poorly, without any real concrete guarantee that Horde will not attack them again any time soon.

Azuremyst gives the Alliance at least a minimal presence on the continent, and the Draenei can reconnoiter and report back major goings-on back to Stormwind. It's a lot less than if they had the loyalty of the Kaldorei, but it's not zero.

As for the war itself, the Alliance won every major battleground and engagement and was in a position to dictate terms to the Horde, which they did. There's never a concrete guarantee that a former enemy could attack again, sooner or later - that's not a thing that exists in true diplomacy.

[Syegfryed]

*Raid Stormwind without dealing any lasting damage and kill a bunch of redhsirts and one big wig… And the real Big Bad escapes eventually to live for another expansion.

Yeah, no alsting damages, lmao, Horde still didn't recovered rfom that shit, show, but keep on with the copium.

And even if didn't, i would be totally ok with that, as long weaid stormwind to kill your leader.

Also BEFORE that your faction gets so utterly stomped that you have to dig yourself out of the shit pile to even breathe.

You just can't make an affirmation that is actually factual right? now way shape or form you got stomped and had to dig out

People asking for POSITIVE development. Not being fucked again and again.

We also asked horde to not be pushing bag and lost another leader, we asked for good orc/troll development, we got shit as well, join the ship buddy, this is the "positive" development in blizzard eyes.

Imagine if Foreskins were treated that way? You cant? Cause they were not used as punching bags for decades.

Ah yes, like they didn't already

Imagine if Night elf leader was an orc who became druid, rly shit hum? that is what forsaken get by a human of light becoming leader.

But keep asking for more, im sure blizzard will do right this time, just like it did with the horde /s

[Aucald]

The capital is made of stone and the elves wear cloth. They have furniture...etc.
They use manufactures and in large quantities. There is room to help or at least to try. If they make an effort to say that the Alliance abandoned them (It says it in Kalimndor although it is clearly the word of a Troll) and they never speak to us of any kind of help in 3 years.

The logical thing is to assume that the Alliance is not looking to help them.

Where exactly are the Kaldorei factories or machinery to produce manufactured goods? The Kaldorei take what they need from nature, and their use of stone is minimal and generally tied to more ancient structures prior to their reformation after the War of the Ancients. Exports from the Kaldorei have always been in the form of raw goods - mostly lumber, some food, and very little in the way of refined or manufactured goods. Why mechanically make furniture when you can quite literally shape it from the existing materials? Needless to say, the Kaldorei's need for Alliance goods and imports is minimal - that's not what they look for in the Alliance, either.

[Eosia]

euuuhhhhhhh we lost many of our people's. of our 3 zones we have 1 thats broken ( ashenvale), 1 thats a litteral death camp ( darkshore), 1 that is a chared piece of liveless wood ( teldrassil). Several of mostly ( but also other druids) spirits like ursoc etc have died. Some are stuck like Ysera was in shadowlands. Ohhh and unlike many other deaths. Many of our souls where used as "ammo" by the jailor......

Sooo.........

Well, that's Elune's fault. She could have saved them. Instead she sacrificed those who died in Teldrassil in an attempt to help the Winter Queen get anima. She didn't know that Argus' soul broke the Arbiter and so those souls went to the Maw instead. But then again, she is just an "upstart 'goddess'" after all.

As for Darkshore, it stays "in contention" for game reasons. In terms of actual lore, Night Elves have uncontested control over it again. It just is staying the way it was in BfA so people on both factions can still farm the rares, etc.

How many of these things are ever going to appear in game? Until that happens you have no point here

Do you honestly think Blizzard is going go through the trouble of shutting down a capital in each faction, Undercity and Darnassus, and then only restore one of them? No, they're not. Especially since the "new Teldrassil" will be free of the flaws that the old one had since it was corrupted, probably the second-most corrupted world tree next to Andrassil/Vordrassil. Teldrassil had apart of Xavius grafted onto it by Fandral Staghelm. So it literally was corrupted from the start. Kind of a nice parallel with Med'ivh being corrupted in Aegwyn's womb by Sargeras. Of course the others, sans Nordrassil, are not so pure either considering Staghelm planted them over Saronite which we know is the blood of Yogg-Saron.

So the new tree, which will be born pure, has been blessed by Elune and her sister, the Winter Queen, formed by the souls of those who died in Teldrassil's

If you look at it, it's a perfect parallel with the Undercity. The Blight gets cleaned up and the Desolate Council reforms with Calia Menethil, the heir to the throne of Lordaeron, sitting on it. It's still a city of the undead residents of Lordaeron, but metaphorically it has been purified. It's going to take take a while for a fricken tree to grow versus the Forsaken cleaning up a mess they created.

Because Blizzard tends to do things equally in regards to that. They used to really strive for balance like how when Horde got a second option for Paladins, Tauren, in Cataclysm, Alliance got a new race for Shaman, Dwarves. One of the Cataclysm pre-expansion events, besides the incidental roasting care of Deathwing, were two campaigns that came in the form of scenarios... The Horde united behind Vol'jin and the Darkspear Trolls to retake their home on the Echo Isles in Zalazane's Fall. On the Alliance side they united behind King Mekkatorque to reclaim Gnomeregan in Operation: Gnomeregan.

I don't know if you watched the videos or not, but I will assume not so I won't spoil it for you, but Blizzard has set up two major possibilities for the new Teldrassil for in-game content. One you see in the videos, the other is an "Easter egg", for lack of a better term, from early on in Legion. It would be utterly stupid of Blizzard to skip over this opportunity. If they just up and plant the new Teldrassil without something major then they are even more tone deaf at Blizzard than I already think they are.

[geco]

Where exactly are the Kaldorei factories or machinery to produce manufactured goods? The Kaldorei take what they need from nature, and their use of stone is minimal and generally tied to more ancient structures prior to their reformation after the War of the Ancients. Exports from the Kaldorei have always been in the form of raw goods - mostly lumber, some food, and very little in the way of refined or manufactured goods. Why mechanically make furniture when you can quite literally shape it from the existing materials? Needless to say, the Kaldorei's need for Alliance goods and imports is minimal - that's not what they look for in the Alliance, either.

We are in the middle ages.
There are no factories, there are artisans making things.
The Kaldorei have non-plant furniture that is made by Kaldorei craftsmen.
And the same with the other manufactures.

I don't know if you watched the videos or not, but I will assume not so I won't spoil it for you, but Blizzard has set up two major possibilities for the new Teldrassil for in-game content. One you see in the videos, the other is an "Easter egg", for lack of a better term, from early on in Legion. It would be utterly stupid of Blizzard to skip over this opportunity. If they just up and plant the new Teldrassil without something major then they are even more tone deaf at Blizzard than I already think they are.

Well Blizzard have been doing shit like this with the entire Kaldorei plot.
If the whole plot of the night warrior ended in nothing. Why do you assume it won't be the same with the seed?

[Aucald]

We are in the middle ages.
There are no factories, there are artisans making things.
The Kaldorei have non-plant furniture that is made by Kaldorei craftsmen.
And the same with the other manufactures.

Artisanship != manufactured goods, by the by. No one said the Kaldorei didn't have artisans, I would argue that the majority of them are artisans. But they don't create excess for trade or sale, because that's not in their culture. What goods they do create are specialized goods, often magical in nature, with the lion's share remaining raw goods from the land itself. What furniture they create is often art in and of itself, made for utilitarian and private purposes. This is why you don't tend to see Kaldorei furniture or other goods in non-Kaldorei lands.