Echo Claims World First Mythic Raszageth - Vault of the Incarnates

[MrDaemon]

In WoW you do have to no life it to be as good as these guys. The streams themselves have (now that mythic unlocked the same week) shown us that they first spend an insane amount in just doing split raids and m+ to get ready for the actual content.

Also not every game needs to be a competition, especially in WoW where most people by a long shot don't care about who's the best player. It's not the same compared to other games.

You can easy raid mythic content if you are good enough and put some time to raiding. If you want to tell me you don't have 12 hours a week during progress to raid then why do you expect to play hardest end game content.

[sylenna]

The problem is that only about 1000 guilds will clear it at all, and most of those only once or twice.

how is that a problem?

1.000 guilds want to beat the highest content there is and are up for the task. the rest can do heroic or normal.

if the difficulty of mythic would be lowered, well.. what would be the point anymore?

[arandomuser]

my hope is they just over nerfed the boss because christmas and in the future they dont time season releases close to holiday and dont nerf bosses as agressively

[Vaskiii]

If nerf had come yesterday, Echo would have had it on their 8% pull, Liquid wouldn't have on their 14%, so nerf doesn't really matter

[Loveliest]

Your comment is sad. You don't get rank 1 in any game if you are not good and you don't have to no life to get it.

You're right. You have to have a job in a "professional gaming organization" and get paid for it.

[Exkrementor]

No shadow, elemental, ret or feral. Yup, seems about right.

[Darsyek]

I mean, I don't need a source to say the sun comes up in the east.

Hint: who is applying the hotfixes?

Blizzard applying hotfixes, bug fixes, and balance fixes is not in any way them participating in the event. All of that is just called doing their job. They watch the Race to World First just like everyone else and it just so happens that during those observations, they see bugs that happen and things that need to be adjusted and adjust accordingly. Correlation does not equal causation. They still have no part in the events themselves outside of just fixing their game which they'd be doing regardless. If Blizzard was taking part in the Race to World First events, they would, you know, host them on official channels.

[Zeek Daniels]

any nerfs applied when two teams are in kill range need to be applied when both teams are pulling period. Its not a World first race otherwise.

[zertul]

I mean, I don't need a source to say the sun comes up in the east.

Hint: who is applying the hotfixes?

You actually probably did need a source for that.

[DechCJC]

You can easy raid mythic content if you are good enough and put some time to raiding. If you want to tell me you don't have 12 hours a week during progress to raid then why do you expect to play hardest end game content.

Because mythic raiding at any kind of respectable level requires a schedule; Plenty of people can play the game a lot but can't commit to a raid team. I could put in much more than 12 hours a week to raiding, I just can't do it at set times, making it pretty much pointless. My work rota is different every week and, similarly, my personal life isn't the same every evening. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing to the person you replied to by the way, this quote just stood out to me.

On topic, grats on the kill. Wp.

[Darsyek]

Sigh. The original poster was complaining about them devoting resources to these events. You said they don't play a part. Now you are outlining how they devote resources to those events in your defense for how they don't play a part in the event. See the inconsistency yet?

No, I don't see the inconsistency. Because there is none. As I said, they'd be doing these same bugfixes and hotfixes even without the Race to World First community events. I'm not sure how you don't understand that them doing routine maintenance on their live service game isn't an indication that they're devoting resources specifically to the Race to World First event. If these events didn't happen, they'd still be observing mythic raid teams and applying bugfixes and hotfixes the exact same way they do now. I mean hell, the very fact that they completely adjusted the timings of an entire phase on the final boss of the raid during the race is all the proof you should need that their investment in RtWF is a passing one at best. If they really were participating and devoting resources specifically to the EVENT, they wouldn't push out huge changes like they did without all parties involved having equal opportunity to make use of those changes.

[cLax0n]

It's a problem because heroic is too easy and mythic is too hard. I don't see what the issue would be if they made it so that mythic were a bit more accessible a few months into the tier. It seems like lots of guilds are just hitting a wall and giving up, raiding numbers are way down.

The average ilvl difference in loot dropped between difficulties is 13ilvl. It may not seem like a lot, because it isnt. Yet the top players who organize, study, practice, research, and dedicate the time to beat the raids on mythic difficulty despite it being "too hard" deserve the higher loot.

It seems like the complaint is that its inaccessible because its "too hard", but we all know you're just complaining because you want the better quality loot without having to actually work for it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[klaps_05]

Watching the race felt pretty disappointing this time around - all the bosses before Raszageth felt like an afterthought, and the final boss had a super anti-climactic ending. Ok for an entry boss I guess, but hopefully complexity of bosses will ramp up in the next few tiers.

[Gaidax]

Limit wasn't even close anyway.

Blizzard made a favor to Limit by giving them an out.

[Biomega]

I was geared to the teeth, I could do 2X as much healing as needed to clear heroic, and it was all pointless.

So you're saying mythic is a difficulty where over-gearing things and brute-forcing won't just get you all the kills. And you think that's... a bad thing?

Fair enough. But maybe if you want to just PUG content and not worry about organizing or coordinating groups, then mythic isn't the difficulty for you? The segment of the population who wants a higher difficulty than heroic, but in a way that doesn't require significant group coordination but just bigger numbers is probably too small to make it an actual thing.

We can't always get what we wants. Gods know there's things I'd love from WoW that I know just aren't going to happen, because my preferences aren't applicable widely enough. That's just how it is. I play a lot of single-player games with extensive modding that allow me to meet those preferences; perhaps looking in another place might help you meet yours better, too?

[fiffer86]

No, I don't see the inconsistency. Because there is none. As I said, they'd be doing these same bugfixes and hotfixes even without the Race to World First community events. I'm not sure how you don't understand that them doing routine maintenance on their live service game isn't an indication that they're devoting resources specifically to the Race to World First event. If these events didn't happen, they'd still be observing mythic raid teams and applying bugfixes and hotfixes the exact same way they do now. I mean hell, the very fact that they completely adjusted the timings of an entire phase on the final boss of the raid during the race is all the proof you should need that their investment in RtWF is a passing one at best. If they really were participating and devoting resources specifically to the EVENT, they wouldn't push out huge changes like they did without all parties involved having equal opportunity to make use of those changes.

As I said, they'd be doing these same bugfixes and hotfixes even without the Race to World First community events.

No... they wouldn't. That doesn't even make sense. Blizzard (and any software) builds patches/hotfixes based on bug-reports/manual inspection/and monitoring the software. Blizzard would still be doing some bugfixes, but not the ones we are seeing.

Balance patches, mechanic patches, and all other tuning is literally a result of allocating resources and caring about player reports and analysis on player related data. Reducing a mechanic by 50% isn't the result of a bug fix... It's because Blizzard (like most dev's) allocate resources, and directly take part in managing the player experience.

The fixes we are seeing are a direct result of the world first raid. Watching footage, progress, and then diagnosing mechanics, and choosing how to safely nurf the encounter without trivializing it is 100% taking part in the world first race.

If they wanted to actively stay out of it, and not participate they could choose to do that. But that would be them releasing mythic, and NOT touching a single thing about it until somebody cleared mythic. Specifically tuning the mythic version of any fight, then deciding when to release the hotfix, is absolutely taking part.

It's also weird that you are trying to separate "race to world first" from the game itself. The "community event" is literally the coverage of the in-game event that is controlled by blizzard. Last time I checked, those "world first/server first" chimes that pop up aren't controlled by the community...

If they really were participating and devoting resources specifically to the EVENT, they wouldn't push out huge changes like they did without all parties involved having equal opportunity to make use of those changes.

That doesn't even make sense. You can take part in something, and not be fair about it. Which is what the problem here is. Watching raid first attempts, parsing the data, making choices on that data, and then making balance/tuning patches is 100% allocating resources to it. Blizzard could just as easily let Mythic stay exactly the same as whatever condition it is when it first launched. THAT is what "staying out of it" would actually look like since they wouldn't have put the resources into knowing what would even need to be patched in Mythic difficulty...

Nobody is arguing against the fact that Blizzard could very well choose to allocate even more resources, heck they could fully control the race. But just because they don't go to the extreme doesn't somehow magically mean they aren't a factor.

[BurntToast]

I wish that these races weren't a thing and that mythic raiding was more reachable for the average player (or just didn't exist in the first place). Blizzard is heavily putting their resources into things that 0.1% of all WoW players get to play and maybe 2-3% of people even get to see through streams like that. I know that these world first races look to be very popular on twitch, but almost all of the viewers are already WoW players themselves and attract barely any new people, so it's just free advertising money for Twitch and 0 added profits for Blizz.

Basically I am "whining" about Blizzard having their priorities wrong and thus making the game worse for the vast majority of people (since we know that most of the development resources go into designing raids). People who can play at this level like Echo (or even several levels below) either have to have playing WoW as their job (streaming, youtube etc.) or they live a very sad life (which I sadly knew about some people myself IRL).

They do though... it's called Heroic Normal and Raid Finder.

Just because a group of folks are good at something and are obviously better than you doesn't mean they have sad lives... in fact I'm sure they are doing just fine with their streamer careers and sponsorships. Nice try tho.

Your post is so cringy and just reeks of jealousy and envy. Just stop it.

[Biomega]

I mean, look at the effort they are putting into designing a raid for 10-20k mythic raiders. You're saying there aren't 10-20k dads who can't play on a fixed schedule but get bored of easily clearing heroic because they massively outgear it?

Since we're making up numbers... yeah, sure. I don't think there's 10-20k dads who want heroic-but-with-bigger-numbers. People who want more difficult content tend to want that to happen in ways that are more engaging than just "do X% more damage and healing", because that makes for much more satisfying difficulty.

[fiffer86]

I mean, look at the effort they are putting into designing a raid for 10-20k mythic raiders. You're saying there aren't 10-20k dads who can't play on a fixed schedule but get bored of easily clearing heroic because they massively outgear it?

That's why M+ exist. What you are asking for can't really exist. Time and patience is already the biggest issue with even running normal/heroic raids.

People, especially the ones you are talking about, don't have the time or stamina to do harder then heroic raids. If you want a challenge higher then heroic raids, mythic raiding IS that content. And is always tuned to be approachable by far more then the world first raiders. Heck, the first few bosses are almost always pugable in the first few weeks.

The only reason Mythic raiding is as hard as it is, is because these groups are going in incredibly "undergeared". These current groups are doing it at ~410ilvl with the best things they could slap together in the few short weeks they have been at it.

And its only going to get significantly easier. As players have time to approach BIS, and start to overgear.

So while this idea of "heroic +" raids sounds nice on paper, I would expect it would be wasted effort. Most heroic guilds can't manage early Mythic bosses as is, especially early in a patch. Which has already been the test run for the prospect of "heroic +" raiding.

[Stellarus]

And liquid lost again! What is that number 4? I think it's about time they give up and go outside! lol