Resubbed after 2 years and got kicked from my first dungeon

[Terracresta]

Never understood the rudeness of players not replying to a simple" hello" or "hi" when you join a dungeon group party. How freaking hard is it to just reply back with a nice comment.

I've been playing WoW since launch, but lately it seems dungeon runs are quiet, nobody talks in chat nowadays. WTF?

If with lately you mean the last few expansions, even though it has been slowly getting worse for a long time (if not from the very beginning), you are right. Already in Legion, "randoms" were barely able to say Hi and Bye and many random groups were no fun. But every time I read "Don't play with randoms", I think this...
At the beginning of WoW, we were all randoms, but we played for fun and to play with other people and not just to run through dungeons as quickly as possible with minimal communication. We used to meet unknown people, doing elite quests or running dungeons together, having fun and then, when we or these unknown people, now called randoms, were doing dungeons runs down the line, we actually checked if the people we had fun with were online and whispered if they want to join another run, being in the same guild not required. Your name could even spread to other people you never played with, getting asked if you want to join dungeons or raids even without being in their guilds.

WoW's community, but also the whole gaming community has been going downhill for many years. Egoism has become worse even if it might only be a mirror of RL, nonetheless it made me stop having fun in WoW (besides game design decisions). WoW Classic Vanilla was the last time I really had fun while leveling with other people (some I knew from years ago, others I met for the first time) even if "endgame" and how many people played it drove me away after BWL. WoW Classic showed that we will never be able to go back from a community standpoint as many people I played and had the most fun with were people, that stopped playing many years ago and didn't stick after reaching "endgame". I don't think any of the many people I met and got to know better are still playing, with most having stopped around MoP and with some returning for a while for WoW Classic.

[Dequanacus]

If with lately you mean the last few expansions, even though it has been slowly getting worse for a long time (if not from the very beginning), you are right. Already in Legion, "randoms" were barely able to say Hi and Bye and many random groups were no fun. But every time I read "Don't play with randoms", I think this...
At the beginning of WoW, we were all randoms, but we played for fun and to play with other people and not just to run through dungeons as quickly as possible with minimal communication. We used to meet unknown people, doing elite quests or running dungeons together, having fun and then, when we or these unknown people, now called randoms, were doing dungeons runs down the line, we actually checked if the people we had fun with were online and whispered if they want to join another run, being in the same guild not required. Your name could even spread to other people you never played with, getting asked if you want to join dungeons or raids even without being in their guilds.

The experiences you attribute to modern xpacs are those I had back in Vanilla onwards and the experiences you claim you had in Vanilla are ones I have now. It's a mix of selective memory and chance to suggest that those are mutually exclusive.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

The low level or low difficulty content is just filled with people like that sadly.
Get out of that part of the game as fast as possible.

The higher you go the more cohesive the groups will be.

But you'll never entirely put it behind you unless you take specific action.

In terms of getting kicked though, the community needs to convince blizzard to remove the potential to kick people.

The content that uses this system is all so easy that you could do it with people AFK anyway.

No one actively in the dungeon, online, and moving their characters should ever be able to be kicked.

[Laqweeta]

Admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.

You should try it sometime.

And the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result
Is this why you never chose to do Mythic+? Knowing it'd fail?

Poor baby.

[Dequanacus]

The low level or low difficulty content is just filled with people like that sadly.
Get out of that part of the game as fast as possible.

The higher you go the more cohesive the groups will be.

But you'll never entirely put it behind you unless you take specific action.

In terms of getting kicked though, the community needs to convince blizzard to remove the potential to kick people.

The content that uses this system is all so easy that you could do it with people AFK anyway.

No one actively in the dungeon, online, and moving their characters should ever be able to be kicked.

Having all the party members potentially need to quit over one person seems far more harmful than any 'abuse' of the system.
They should just make it so you don't get a leaver penalty if kicked.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

This is the way modern WoW is. Nobody plays the game for fun anymore. Everybody treats it like a 2nd job, everyone is super hardcore. And don't you dare do even the most casual content blind.

While I enjoyed the hell out of mythic+ in legion, then in the brief time I played Shadowlands, I think it's safe to say the mythic+ rush mentality has done more harm than good in the long run.

[ohwell]

This is literally just a rant post, but damn this has made me regret resubbing.

Quit in BfA, never tried SL but got it free recently and tried it over Xmas with 3 days free. Surprisingly enjoyed it, and decided to sub today! Want to try some SL dungeons (can't on my tank because she's 60 and apparently I can't queue?) so I join on my Hunter, lvl 55. First ever SL dungeon, Plaguefall. Say hello, only 1 responds. I'm used to shortcuts from SWtOR and notice the tank is clearly running on a specific route. I'm keeping up, we kill first 2 bosses and make our way to the 3rd when I died from mobs and slime. I release, as has been drilled into me from Vanilla, and start to run back to the party from 2nd boss. Suddenly I go to loading screen, thinking I might be being teleported forward, but then realise...... I've been vote kicked. Sure enough I am back in Stormwind with a 7 minute lockout timer because I 'left the dungeon early' ......... seriously? I've been kicked without a word because I died. I message the guy who said hello, and to be fair they said that was some real BS and they were very sorry. But damn, I'm already regretting resubbing.
I get that there are shortcuts and toxic people, but do I really have to start each dungeon with a copy paste message 'just come back to game, please don't group kick if I fall 10 seconds behind!'. Or have I just been really unlucky and met with some toxic idiots? Anyway. I'll persevere because I am genuinely enjoying the content, but that has really put a downer on my evening.

/rant

I really don't get people doing these elaborate shortcuts in leveling dungeons anyway. Killing the stuff gets exp and finishing a little bit faster isn't really make or break in terms of leveling.

[Pakheth]

Then you've been wrong since Vanilla.

You only release if everyone dies, or if you're the healer and no one else can rez you.
If just you die, then you wait for a rez. THAT is what should have been drilled into you.

You slow down the entire run by releasing and I'm willing to bet you ran your mouth about it a bit first before being kicked.

Seems you've never been called lazy for waiting for rez or told to run by tank/healer because they don't wanna waste mana on you.

[Twdft]

mythic+ rush mentality

Mentality to rush dungeons as fast as possible started in WotLK at the latest, I'd say even with Mechanar runs in BC.

[Xilurm]

Just don't play with Randoms

That's not a good excuse for this behaviour.

[Accendor]

That's not a good excuse for this behaviour.

It's not an excuse, just a way to avoid the problem

[loras]

This is literally just a rant post, but damn this has made me regret resubbing.

Quit in BfA, never tried SL but got it free recently and tried it over Xmas with 3 days free. Surprisingly enjoyed it, and decided to sub today! Want to try some SL dungeons (can't on my tank because she's 60 and apparently I can't queue?) so I join on my Hunter, lvl 55. First ever SL dungeon, Plaguefall. Say hello, only 1 responds. I'm used to shortcuts from SWtOR and notice the tank is clearly running on a specific route. I'm keeping up, we kill first 2 bosses and make our way to the 3rd when I died from mobs and slime. I release, as has been drilled into me from Vanilla, and start to run back to the party from 2nd boss. Suddenly I go to loading screen, thinking I might be being teleported forward, but then realise...... I've been vote kicked. Sure enough I am back in Stormwind with a 7 minute lockout timer because I 'left the dungeon early' ......... seriously? I've been kicked without a word because I died. I message the guy who said hello, and to be fair they said that was some real BS and they were very sorry. But damn, I'm already regretting resubbing.
I get that there are shortcuts and toxic people, but do I really have to start each dungeon with a copy paste message 'just come back to game, please don't group kick if I fall 10 seconds behind!'. Or have I just been really unlucky and met with some toxic idiots? Anyway. I'll persevere because I am genuinely enjoying the content, but that has really put a downer on my evening.

/rant

My own experience was a tank running halfway across the dungeon, pulling all he came across then dying along with me in some far off room because i was the only one that could keep up, and consequently ranting in some non-european language i did not recognise (or a really exotic small local language bearing no resemblance to any language i know.. assuming it was a language) and leaving.

We got a new tank within minutes but it was still a weird thing.

[Xilurm]

It's not an excuse, just a way to avoid the problem

Blizzard should really enforce anti toxicity rules just like Square does with FF. Would be a much better experience for all.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Mentality to rush dungeons as fast as possible started in WotLK at the latest, I'd say even with Mechanar runs in BC.

Not true. You could rush some, not all wotlk dungeons because they were insanely easy compared to tbc and vanilla dungeons. And in cataclysm you couldn't rush through dungeons at all because you had to cc a mob or two per pack. If anything the rush started with challenge modes in mop and wod, but practically no one was doing those. I'd say less than 5% of the player base bothered with challenged modes.

[Lazerbrain]

I'm to old and tired to rush in a role playing game, to me its a oxymoron to even try to esport while pretending to be in a fantasy land.

I'm super casual these days, chilling my way through the content, no rush slow playing and a lot of herbalism, almost trying to avoid "gearing", and df at least let me get 383 gear and most bosses in raid have been fine, Raszageth was probably the only one I felt I had to study on(and have not beaten yet), rest was easy enough "blind", this is a good thing to me, cause the final boss should probably be a problem to solve.

I do m+ but I really dislike the feeling of losing keys, to me a better solution would be to tie rewards to timer so that even if a group does it really slow they get some loot and perhaps a lower key.

I can see speedrunning as a fun thing if it was also somehow taking slow turtles and roleplayers into account.

The design as it stands today breeds toxicity.

[Flaks]

The low level or low difficulty content is just filled with people like that sadly.
Get out of that part of the game as fast as possible.

The higher you go the more cohesive the groups will be.

But you'll never entirely put it behind you unless you take specific action.

In terms of getting kicked though, the community needs to convince blizzard to remove the potential to kick people.

The content that uses this system is all so easy that you could do it with people AFK anyway.

No one actively in the dungeon, online, and moving their characters should ever be able to be kicked.

So essentially the room for the casual player in this game is getting smaller and smaller? Can't do heroics now because all the hardcore andys are trying to rush to end game content. Can't do end game content cause the hardcore andys expect the best of the best all the time. Blizzard keeps catering to this crowd and that has trickled down to every aspect of the game unless you're locking yourself down to nothing but soloable content which Blizzard has actively removed any challenge from outside of...mage tower?

[Biomega]

Mentality to rush dungeons as fast as possible started in WotLK at the latest, I'd say even with Mechanar runs in BC.

You must not have played in Vanilla, because Dire Maul speed runs were absolutely already a thing there, with shortcuts and fixed routes and all the anger and vitriol of the modern day if someone didn't know where to go or screwed it up. Not to mention there was a literal timed version of Strath, too, that people needed for certain quests.

It may have become more prevalent as time went on, but it absolutely existed since the earliest days. Which is not surprising, considering gear was (and to a degree still is) largely a function of time, and so the better use you make of your time the more rewards you rake in.

[Atrea]

You'd think that MMO-C posters would have learned by now not to take "I was innocent and I was wronged!" complaints online at face value, but here we are.

I'd be willing to place a large wager on the fact that OP has not told us the entire story, and if we were to talk to the other 4 participants of the dungeon we'd get a very different version of events.

How many times have we seen it in the past? "I got banned, I didn't do anything!"; "I was kicked from this guild, I didn't do anything!"; "I got booted from this dungeon, I didn't do anything!"; only to find out that the OP was dishonest about their behaviour/actions, omitted crucial information, or outright lied about their involvement in their situation.

There was a post the other week on the official forums, where a guy claimed he had been banned without justification, claimed he never spoke in trade, never did anything wrong, etc; and everyone rallied around him, convinced that a stranger with a complaint would NEVER lie on the Internet -- only to be called out by a blue poster who went into great detail about how all of those claims were false and explained that he had been saying some really ignorant-ass shit in trade to people.

Did we all forget about this?

I keep forgetting that this community is incredibly slow to learn lessons.

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I do m+ but I really dislike the feeling of losing keys, to me a better solution would be to tie rewards to timer so that even if a group does it really slow they get some loot and perhaps a lower key.

That is 100% how it works already.

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Blizzard keeps catering to this crowd and that has trickled down to every aspect of the game unless you're locking yourself down to nothing but soloable content which Blizzard has actively removed any challenge from outside of...mage tower?

I think you have an unrealistic vision of who the average WoW player is.

The average casual WoW player is in a guild, and even has a small number of friends outside their guild that they can do content with. They can - and do - run content together at their own pace, without pressure to play a certain way -- at least outside of that group's normal parameters.

Being a part of a guild or a community is not about time commitment, it is about social skills. If you do not possess the social skills to do what everyone else does, then you have to take what's left.

One demographic that is not worth catering to is the, "socially-stunted solo player who can't get along with other people in a multiplayer game".

[Lazerbrain]

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That is 100% how it works already.

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I know it does, but if you say 100% I say 50%, They could tune the design so it does not feel as "rushy". The feeling is still really bad if you run out of time, just keep it as is but change how its displayed to make it feel better, maybe that would breed less toxicity? Also make progression more visible like renown or something, I'm not designer so don't ask me how to fix it, I can only point on stuff I don't gel with, oh and I can tell you that many players i know have told me that they do not enjoy m+ the way its currently designed, its also too divisive on the playerbase from my point of view.

[Biomega]

They could tune the design so it does not feel as "rushy".

They absolutely could change things to lessen the problem, even if it's unlikely they'd ever eliminate it.

To start with, I think the whole depleted key thing is terrible design and always has been. They wanted to replicate Diablo's Rift system, but they didn't think hard enough about how it works, and what it'd mean for what has effectively become an entirely new game mode.

As you say, we're not designers, and we don't need to come up with a perfect solution to this - we only need to demand they come up with a better one. M+ needs more systemic changes. It's a sound system in principle, but there's just so many things they could do to smooth out the rough edges and make it a better experience for more people.