The most badass Orcs.

[Powerogue]

Sticking by Saurfang. He made some mistakes, but the Horde wouldn't exist without him. Lok'tar Ogar to a true legend.

[Grazrug]

Yet the Iron Horde was stomped and destroyed and Fel-corrupted Grom was also stomped and defeated by the alliance between Thrall and Jaina.

Do you actually play any Warcraft game or do you just spend all your days being wrong on the forums? Because you lack knowledge of even the most basic lore facts; such as the simple fact that the Evil Hordes failed and were destroyed, while Thrall's Horde won and continues to endure.

Funny how you prefer the Evil Hordes to Thrall's because, supposedly, the Evil Hordes achieve "victory"; even though all the Evil Hordes have literally been annihilated after being crushed in the conflicts they fought in. So much for "victory"

The true Horde will rise again and dispose of the council.

[ManjiSanji]

Sticking by Saurfang. He made some mistakes, but the Horde wouldn't exist without him. Lok'tar Ogar to a true legend.

BFA was one of my least favorite expansions, and I know people complained about, "Sadfang," but those cinematics, particularly the first couple, are some of the best work Blizzard has ever done. Really excellent story-telling, and visually amazing.

I just wish they hadn't killed him off. Not for that...mess at the end.

[Grazrug]

BFA was one of my least favorite expansions, and I know people complained about, "Sadfang," but those cinematics, particularly the first couple, are some of the best work Blizzard has ever done. Really excellent story-telling, and visually amazing.

I just wish they hadn't killed him off. Not for that...mess at the end.

Saurfang is dead. So his entire arc was pointless. He did nothing for the Horde.

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Yet the Iron Horde was stomped and destroyed and Fel-corrupted Grom was also stomped and defeated by the alliance between Thrall and Jaina.

Do you actually play any Warcraft game or do you just spend all your days being wrong on the forums? Because you lack knowledge of even the most basic lore facts; such as the simple fact that the Evil Hordes failed and were destroyed, while Thrall's Horde won and continues to endure.

Funny how you prefer the Evil Hordes to Thrall's because, supposedly, the Evil Hordes achieve "victory"; even though all the Evil Hordes have literally been annihilated after being crushed in the conflicts they fought in. So much for "victory"

The alliance has Alleria, Turalyon, Danath, Kurdran and Khadgar. So the Horde should have their original heroes too.

[Shadowferal]

Regarding my rewrite;
The more I read of the orcs and keep cross-checking events between Garrosh and Saurfang, the more I think Saurfang should be "warleader" and Garrosh relegated to leader of the racist supremacist "Kor'kron." It makes sense for a more honorable Horde...

[Grazrug]

I add to my list Hurkan Skullsplinter. Man stood of to Grommash himself when the warsong Clan attacked them to force his allegiance towards Ner'zhul. Sad he died but you got to have massive balls defying the most legendary Orc warrior who has ever lived.

[Powerogue]

I add to my list Hurkan Skullsplinter. Man stood of to Grommash himself when the warsong Clan attacked them to force his allegiance towards Ner'zhul. Sad he died but you got to have massive balls defying the most legendary Orc warrior who has ever lived.

"Trivia
In Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal, he was described as a nameless "pathetic Orc Captain" of the clan."

I don't have anything to add to that. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hurkan_Skullsplinter

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Regarding my rewrite;
The more I read of the orcs and keep cross-checking events between Garrosh and Saurfang, the more I think Saurfang should be "warleader" and Garrosh relegated to leader of the racist supremacist "Kor'kron." It makes sense for a more honorable Horde...

Where's the rest of your rewrite? Because I don't think it's controversial to say that "honorable" and "racist supremacists" are not words that go together.

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Saurfang is dead. So his entire arc was pointless. He did nothing for the Horde.

Off the top of my head:
1) Lead the Horde/alliance invasion of Ahn'qiraq

2) Helped Thrall keep the complete moron Garrosh Hellscream from getting everyone killed in Northrend. It's baffling how Garrosh gets any credit for that campaign when Saurfang did all the strategizing and Thrall had to keep that hothead on a leash any time they were meeting diplomatically. There's more to leadership than screaming "FOR THE HORDE!" and charging at things with an axe. Saurfang would ultimately lead the charge on Icecrown Citadel as well.

3) Lead the Horde forces against Sylvanas and keep the hope going that they can still be more than the monsters the Horde started as, which ruined Sylvanas's plot to destroy both factions by pitting them against each other, and ultimately helped pave the way towards the current truce. Without him either N'zoth or the Jailer would have consumed Azeroth's world soul and killed us all.

4) On the Jailer side, I had almost forgotten helping free Anduin from said Jailer.

[Aucald]

Helped Thrall keep the complete moron Garrosh Hellscream from getting everyone killed in Northrend. It's baffling how Garrosh gets any credit for that campaign when Saurfang did all the strategizing and Thrall had to keep that hothead on a leash any time they were meeting diplomatically. There's more to leadership than screaming "FOR THE HORDE!" and charging at things with an axe. Saurfang would ultimately lead the charge on Icecrown Citadel as well.

The Horde has long been susceptible to the charisma of personally powerful individuals, deferring their own judgment to such leaders. It's a process that repeated itself since the Horde's very inception, and didn't even stop with Thrall who was a good leader but one who ruled almost solely through their own charisma. The cult of personality that the Horde enshrines its leaders with ensures that the only time that the Horde can "be good" is when their leader is actually good in a moral sense - and since the position of leader is magnetic to pathological personalities, it generally leads to the worst people becoming leaders.

[Grazrug]

"Trivia
In Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal, he was described as a nameless "pathetic Orc Captain" of the clan."

I don't have anything to add to that. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hurkan_Skullsplinter

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Where's the rest of your rewrite? Because I don't think it's controversial to say that "honorable" and "racist supremacists" are not words that go together.

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Off the top of my head:
1) Lead the Horde/alliance invasion of Ahn'qiraq

2) Helped Thrall keep the complete moron Garrosh Hellscream from getting everyone killed in Northrend. It's baffling how Garrosh gets any credit for that campaign when Saurfang did all the strategizing and Thrall had to keep that hothead on a leash any time they were meeting diplomatically. There's more to leadership than screaming "FOR THE HORDE!" and charging at things with an axe. Saurfang would ultimately lead the charge on Icecrown Citadel as well.

3) Lead the Horde forces against Sylvanas and keep the hope going that they can still be more than the monsters the Horde started as, which ruined Sylvanas's plot to destroy both factions by pitting them against each other, and ultimately helped pave the way towards the current truce. Without him either N'zoth or the Jailer would have consumed Azeroth's world soul and killed us all.

4) On the Jailer side, I had almost forgotten helping free Anduin from said Jailer.

Saurfang died a traitor. I am glad he is gone. No more backstabbing for his alliance friends to damage the faction.

[Darth-Piekus]

Saurfang died a hero and saved Azeroth with his final sacrifice. The traitor thing is only in the head of a minority who are still full with delusions of grandeur. I am glad that the Horde has changed for the better and a unifaction is going step by step while Garrosh became a disgraceful Disenchant Powder and Sylvannas became a different person doing the 20 Souls Daily each day.

[Grazrug]

Saurfang died a hero and saved Azeroth with his final sacrifice. The traitor thing is only in the head of a minority who are still full with delusions of grandeur. I am glad that the Horde has changed for the better and a unifaction is going step by step while Garrosh became a disgraceful Disenchant Powder and Sylvannas became a different person doing the 20 Souls Daily each day.

The only thing the Horde agreed to is that they won't harm the alliance. I reject the peace treaty and I reject the council. All Saurfang did was to protect Anduin and Jaina from any harm.

[Shadowferal]

Where's the rest of your rewrite? Because I don't think it's controversial to say that "honorable" and "racist supremacists" are not words that go together.

The Kor'kron are a splinter faction within Orgrimmar. They are kept well in check, and at times brought to heel by war-leader Saurfang (at the moment...), and peace-leader Go'el. (Still working on that...Thrall might not be the best suited)

[Powerogue]

We all know the story of Grommash Hellscream, the orc who, despite his many mistakes, ultimately faced down his demons before he died.

But I recently encountered another who, while he would never have admitted it, reminded me of him in some ways.


Duroz Scaletaker.

"They'd say he died a coward but I don't know cowards who could do that."

[Darth-Piekus]

The only thing the Horde agreed to is that they won't harm the alliance. I reject the peace treaty and I reject the council. All Saurfang did was to protect Anduin and Jaina from any harm.

Funny that you mentioned it. Your character took part in bringing down Garrosh being part of Voljin's Rebellion, then went and dismantled the Iron Horde fighting Garrosh at the end of the questline. Then he must have been a Sylvannas loyalist if I'm correct. Then after Sylvannas turned tail and run he was either captured and put in chains ending his questline or he went to the Shadowlands to end her Thanos-like campaign to end reality only to find out that the Sylvannas he knew is totally different. In either way the character saw how stupid he and his faction were that he accepted the peace treaty for a few years and now is cooperating along Alliance characters in Dragonflight.

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We all know the story of Grommash Hellscream, the orc who, despite his many mistakes, ultimately faced down his demons before he died.

But I recently encountered another who, while he would never have admitted it, reminded me of him in some ways.


Duroz Scaletaker.

"They'd say he died a coward but I don't know cowards who could do that."

I enjoyed the small questline of that old orc. Along with Saurfang they dropped some harsh truths that the Horde as a faction should learn from.

[Grazrug]

Funny that you mentioned it. Your character took part in bringing down Garrosh being part of Voljin's Rebellion, then went and dismantled the Iron Horde fighting Garrosh at the end of the questline. Then he must have been a Sylvannas loyalist if I'm correct. Then after Sylvannas turned tail and run he was either captured and put in chains ending his questline or he went to the Shadowlands to end her Thanos-like campaign to end reality only to find out that the Sylvannas he knew is totally different. In either way the character saw how stupid he and his faction were that he accepted the peace treaty for a few years and now is cooperating along Alliance characters in Dragonflight.

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I enjoyed the small questline of that old orc. Along with Saurfang they dropped some harsh truths that the Horde as a faction should learn from.

I will never work with the alliance. Blizzard can't force me.

[Clone]

Ummm, in WoD they did, in "Warcraft 3", Grom drank from the demon-juice to defeat Cenarius (But you'll probably blame the Night elves for that, being all inconsiderate and all, not rolling over and dying when the orcs took goblin shredders to clean-cut their forest.)

Between Grom, Garrosh, and alt-Kilrogg, it has been well established that orcs will use anything, no matter how obviously foul and/or corrupting, to get stronger, no matter the consequences...

lol, said the person who expects orcs to roll over and die to four separate factions of night elf forces and a demigod. Fact is night elves shot first over trees.

[Powerogue]

Drek'thar is ancient, blind, and disabled, and still manages to send grown orcs away with their metaphorical tail between their legs. One of my favorite Cataclysm moments.

[Grazrug]

Drek'thar is ancient, blind, and disabled, and still manages to send grown orcs away with their metaphorical tail between their legs. One of my favorite Cataclysm moments.

I think Drek'thar sees through the elements. That would explain how he is able to fight at all in Alterac Valley.

[Nymrohd]

lol, said the person who expects orcs to roll over and die to four separate factions of night elf forces and a demigod. Fact is night elves shot first over trees.

Night elves shot first over a forest that hosts wisps, the souls of their ancestors. Same way the Amani shot first against the high elves. And the fact remains, Grom DID go for the demon juice. He could have retreated but he was more willing to corrupt his people again than admit defeat.

[Grazrug]

Night elves shot first over a forest that hosts wisps, the souls of their ancestors. Same way the Amani shot first against the high elves. And the fact remains, Grom DID go for the demon juice. He could have retreated but he was more willing to corrupt his people again than admit defeat.

Difference is Amani got wiped out while night elves are treated like heroes. Blizzard is sure to pick their favorites when it comes to unprovoked attacks. The night elves had it coming.