geting insta declined for keys ive already timed

[Jester Joe]

Might be a language barrier, I guess we don't fundamentally talk about the same thing.

Gatekeeping = getting declined in pugland for a +20 when you did not have done a +20 before. If you think this is a problem that needs to change for pugs you can be that change by running your own key and invite only people key-1. You now have the chance to convince 4 others to do the same.

If you think this approach is futile and don't think the community can be changed maybe it's time to ask yourself why this kind of gatekeeping is happening in the first place. My answer to that is that people expect to time their key and obviously invite the best possible candidate of which there are many as you would see if you ever put up your key.

I've already said this, there's a difference between "I'm not inviting someone because there's a better choice" and "I'm not inviting you simply because you haven't done a +15", for example.

The first isn't going to change ever, people will always take the overqualified if they're available.

But the second leads to mindsets of things like "you're the only person in queue, but I'm still not going to take you just because I refuse to let you into my +15 club because you haven't done it yet"

That's what gatekeeping is, when you're refusing to allow people in just because they haven't passed your inane qualifications. (Yours in a general statement, not saying you the poster)

[Toby451]

i need some help understanding this as its making no sense to I've got 2573 score on my hunter I've timed Shadowmoon burial grounds 20 on both fortified and tyrannical, I've even 2 chested it on tyrannical yet I'm getting instantly declined for every 20 burialgrounds i sign for same is happening wiht algathar on tyrannical I've timed a 20 for that side why i get instantly declined. this make no sense to me


what dose timing a other dungeons have to do with my ability to do the 2 dungeons mentioned above?

Its not hard to understand. There is always someone better than you also queing up.


20 SBG is the easiest 20 for people looking to fill out their vault/farming concentrated primals.

[Biomega]

Think of it like an auction.

Someone wants to sell something for $20, and they put it up for bids.

You bid $20, which is exactly what the person wanted.

But there's also fifty OTHER people each bidding $30.

Why would the seller NOT decline your offer and go with someone else's higher offer instead? Even if they only wanted $20 for what they're selling, they'd be stupid to refuse $30 for it if it's so easy to get so many offers like that.

That doesn't mean you didn't offer a fair price - it only means a ton of other people were willing to offer more. So the real problem isn't that you didn't offer enough, it's that there's a vast oversupply of other offers.

That's exactly how M+ works, and why there's meta discrimination, RIO/M+ rating inflation, and so on. People do it because they CAN and it's stupidly easy.

Don't like it? Make your own group, and set your own rules. Or go with a fixed community group (be that guild or otherwise) where you can supply and people will look at more information than just your score and ilvl.

Or quit the game altogether until Blizzard changes something, if that's ever going to happen.

Up to you.

[StrawberryZebra]

i need some help understanding this as its making no sense to I've got 2573 score on my hunter I've timed Shadowmoon burial grounds 20 on both fortified and tyrannical, I've even 2 chested it on tyrannical yet I'm getting instantly declined for every 20 burialgrounds i sign for same is happening wiht algathar on tyrannical I've timed a 20 for that side why i get instantly declined. this make no sense to me

I'm 2.8k on a Paladin tank and I get insta declined for keys sometimes too. Everyone does. There's countless reasons why but I don't think it's worth getting upset over. It's definately not worth getting stressed over trying to figure out why.

Ultimately being invited or not isn't up to you.

But it doesn't matter, there's plenty of other keys you can join. In the worst case, as so many others have said, you can always run your own. If it helps, think of pugging M+ like Tinder. Swipe right on everything that looks good and see what matches come back.

[Nachtigal]

It's that you can play the game at a certain level.

Why would I invite you ever, the person that can only time a shadowmoon when I can... just invite a better player that can time all the dungeons.

You might have a point if the dungeon was av or rlp. You can't complete anything other than the easiest dungeon in the game atm.

The assumption is you are bad and were carried if all you can complete is a shadowmoon.

It’s harder to get into the other ones. People are more likely to take chances in a shadow moon than say rlp. This means naturally more solo players will tend to be in this dynamic. It’s a smol pp mindset, even if it’s an understandable one. People care too much about the game. They want the easiest path, because they’ve been brainwashed into believing the easiest path is the only way to have fun.

“I value my time, my time is important.” As they continue to play the game for 10+ hours, LOL. People just love to play pretend, and the way m+ is structured is very good at allowing smol pp party leaders into playing mr big shot.

[brynhildrprot]

I'm gonna assume people have an addon which instantly declines anyone who isn't a minimum score.

I have an weakaura that sorts by rio, and I never scroll down when making my own grps. You can sign to my +26 Nokhud with 2800 rio but Inwont even see it, you will get drowned since it will sort from highest score to lowest

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It’s harder to get into the other ones. People are more likely to take chances in a shadow moon than say rlp. This means naturally more solo players will tend to be in this dynamic. It’s a smol pp mindset, even if it’s an understandable one. People care too much about the game. They want the easiest path, because they’ve been brainwashed into believing the easiest path is the only way to have fun.

“I value my time, my time is important.” As they continue to play the game for 10+ hours, LOL. People just love to play pretend, and the way m+ is structured is very good at allowing smol pp party leaders into playing mr big shot.

How is it fun to fill your grp with ppl incapable of timing the key and depleting because of it.

Why does anyone ever need to take a chance on you specifically?

Why would I ever take anyone with less score unless I know them personally?

RIO actually correlates really well with performance. A lot of people overestimate their own skill.

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I've already said this, there's a difference between "I'm not inviting someone because there's a better choice" and "I'm not inviting you simply because you haven't done a +15", for example.

The first isn't going to change ever, people will always take the overqualified if they're available.

But the second leads to mindsets of things like "you're the only person in queue, but I'm still not going to take you just because I refuse to let you into my +15 club because you haven't done it yet"

That's what gatekeeping is, when you're refusing to allow people in just because they haven't passed your inane qualifications. (Yours in a general statement, not saying you the poster)

Cry me a river, I remember trying to push high keys as a prot paladin in S3 when BDK was such a dominant class you would get declined all day even for keys you didnt need for score.

I know what its like, the community isnt going to change, either push your own keys, make a premade or put up with it

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I have to say for myself as a tank, i dont just look at io, i mostly look at # of runs as well, plus if your on a specific realm your getting insta declined aka Rag, Quel, Azralon.

To a point,I won't name names, but theres a dps in queue see very often, Who plays all day has 300 runs in the 20-24 department, and can't break in to 25s. That means they've probably hit their skill ceilling, I know for myself if I quit my Job and did that many keys I'd be on front Page for tanks, not just my class specifically.

So while Number of runs can be a good indicator,if someone has an insane number of keys done andstill comparatively low score my alarm bells start going off

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I don’t refuse to do my own key but I can’t always just do my key, especially when I can’t play much and I do “need” specific dungeons for loot or rio itself.

The mechanism simply works really bad for solo players without a lot of spare time.

Do the key you don't need so you get a key you need.

Like jesus if you're hardstuck doing +15s, and you have a +15 Ruby, play it, get a +16 key play it get a +17. It doesn't matter what key it is.

I've managed to get KSM in 2 weeks with fresh characters without linking IO, how can you guys fail it?

I got all my tps after coming back before Dragonflight in S4 of Shadowlands in 2 weeks, my score from previous seasons wasn't showing and I pugged it. Dude just play your own key, it's really not that complicated. When you find a tank you like, ask him if he can do more. You will literally have all teleports by the end of the week.

The other alternative is, you're simply not as good as you think you are, and people refuse to play with you after you've done your keys.

M+ is a lot about networking, after I do keys I always get flooded with friend requests, be it if I tank or dps. If you're performing well you should have been taken to better grps idk man.

[Gaidax]

i need some help understanding this as its making no sense to I've got 2573 score on my hunter I've timed Shadowmoon burial grounds 20 on both fortified and tyrannical, I've even 2 chested it on tyrannical yet I'm getting instantly declined for every 20 burialgrounds i sign for same is happening wiht algathar on tyrannical I've timed a 20 for that side why i get instantly declined. this make no sense to me


what dose timing a other dungeons have to do with my ability to do the 2 dungeons mentioned above?

Bruh...

Everyone and their mothers want to run SBG20 for easy and fast weekly vault. You apply together with like frikkin' dozens of DPS, your chances being picked are slim, because you can bet there are applicants with better score/ilvl/class.

Not a rocket science.

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Heck take me for example, I'm at 2700 and 418 ilvl - I usually just do 1 or 4 keys for weekly vault with a guild, but when I am lazy and miss that one run I need, go and apply to M+20... what do you think happens?

I need to apply to like 15-30 different M+ groups and not only SBG, before I get picked. Because 2700 and 418 ilvl is simply nothing to write home about and locks aren't meta either just like Hunters.

And getting picked to SBG20? Bruh, forget it - EVERYONE wants that key for fast AND easy vault. Even 2700 you will rot in queue there, 2500? You kidding mate? You won't even be on the radar there.


So, your only choices are - buckle up and push that score at least to 2700, so people would even consider you for a sec AND/OR run with a guild (best option) AND/OR apply to everything there is not just SBG.

Applying as a fucking 2500 hunter to SBG20, omegalul - you don't need some secret WA or addon to simply slam that decline button on that.

[craigw]

its funny on here the constant bitch about how other people run their keys. run your own damn key and stop complaining. now cry some more about how you dont want to run your key. keep the cycle going. motherfuckers on here bitch more than my ex wife.

[Ham on Rye]

its funny on here the constant bitch about how other people run their keys. run your own damn key and stop complaining. now cry some more about how you dont want to run your key. keep the cycle going. motherfuckers on here bitch more than my ex wife.

I would bet any amount of money that if the OP put up his own key in the LFG window, he'd be doing the exact same damn thing he's bitching about - not considering or rejecting people with the same qualifications as him and instead taking the 2800 people.

[kaelix1]

I know this it was pointed out here but it needs to be said again, there is A HUGE number of dps that apply usually for a high level key, your IO and gear mean shit because there are already X number of people that have the same or better, its even worst as a hunter, as you take shit tons of damage compare with your average dps just for been a hunter, why would i take you in my key if i can take a rogue or a warlock which can do the same dmg but they don't need as much attention from the healer as a hunter

[GundamExia]

Why is it stupid?

Rio shows experience.
Rio shows you have less experience than others in queue.

Why would I take you who can only complete a shadowmoon when you can't complete an av or rlp.

It's shows you are terrible and can only scrape by the easiest dungeon for a free vault.

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What "experience" if You can easily buy 20-25 boost on some pages. Rio is the same cancer like "meta".

[Azharok]

What "experience" if You can easily buy 20-25 boost on some pages. Rio is the same cancer like "meta".

If you have 2-3 million gold to drop on boosts.

[Gaidax]

its funny on here the constant bitch about how other people run their keys. run your own damn key and stop complaining. now cry some more about how you dont want to run your key. keep the cycle going. motherfuckers on here bitch more than my ex wife.

Welcome to MMO-C.

Circular bitching is the essence of this forum, without that you'd have like 5 posts in MMO-C total.

[StrawberryZebra]

I've managed to get KSM in 2 weeks with fresh characters without linking IO, how can you guys fail it?

It helps when you already know how to do it.

Theres a huge learning curve from +2 through to +20, and there's one for each dungeon. This seasons M+ dungeons are very dense with mechanics, most of which only become relevent as you go up through the levels. If you start at the bottom and work up, a lot of these become important one or two at a time so you end up with a smooth curve.

A lot of the complaints about other players are the ones who've taken shortcuts on that learning curve. They've jumped straight into an +18 Temple of the Jade Serpent and are getting killed every pack because they've not learned the mechanics. They're the players that end up burning keys. They leave with a sub-par experience and the opinion that everyone else in the group was toxic.

A lot of the complaints I see about unable to find groups are from people like OP, who haven't yet made that step into doing 20 and above consistently. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're both geared and capable of doing +20 keys. Unfortuntately, for everyone like you there are 10, 15, 100 other players who are trying to the same key who took shortcuts and its hard for a group leader to filter them out quickly.

There's a significant burden of knowledge you need to play M+ at a high level. There are addons, macros and talent builds other players expect you to have. You need to come prepared with the right Gear, Enchants and Consumables. Nobody will ever explain any of this to you, you're just expected to know it.

You may already have the skills and knowledge to get a character to KSM in a matter of weeks. For the people who don't, there's not really any easy way to get that experience outside of bashing their heads against any key they get, likely with a group of players who also have a lot to learn. That's a very frustrating situation to be in and I can see why it spills out into threads like this one.

[Algorath]

Imagine you go into a restaurant and are given a menu.

You can get a piece of cauliflower and a carrot with 4 chicken nuggets, or you can have a nice steak with any side you want for the same price, wait time etc.

Now you understand why you get declined

[brynhildrprot]

It helps when you already know how to do it.

Theres a huge learning curve from +2 through to +20, and there's one for each dungeon. This seasons M+ dungeons are very dense with mechanics, most of which only become relevent as you go up through the levels. If you start at the bottom and work up, a lot of these become important one or two at a time so you end up with a smooth curve.

A lot of the complaints about other players are the ones who've taken shortcuts on that learning curve. They've jumped straight into an +18 Temple of the Jade Serpent and are getting killed every pack because they've not learned the mechanics. They're the players that end up burning keys. They leave with a sub-par experience and the opinion that everyone else in the group was toxic.

A lot of the complaints I see about unable to find groups are from people like OP, who haven't yet made that step into doing 20 and above consistently. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're both geared and capable of doing +20 keys. Unfortuntately, for everyone like you there are 10, 15, 100 other players who are trying to the same key who took shortcuts and its hard for a group leader to filter them out quickly.

There's a significant burden of knowledge you need to play M+ at a high level. There are addons, macros and talent builds other players expect you to have. You need to come prepared with the right Gear, Enchants and Consumables. Nobody will ever explain any of this to you, you're just expected to know it.

You may already have the skills and knowledge to get a character to KSM in a matter of weeks. For the people who don't, there's not really any easy way to get that experience outside of bashing their heads against any key they get, likely with a group of players who also have a lot to learn. That's a very frustrating situation to be in and I can see why it spills out into threads like this one.

I already have done my fair shaee of headbashing to learn mechanics,I didnt play beta so I went I to the dungeons blind, managed to time my first 15s on day 1, get my 418 weapon day 3 with premal infusion,by week 2 I had a few 20s done by week 3 I had all 20s done.

Right now I have my 25s done and need 26s.

Yes definitely theres no shortcut other than just learning the dungeons, but another part is, just being brave and trying to push your own key up as high as possible, especially at the start of the season its worth trying to push fast because you can network with a lot of players that you usually dont have the opportunity to play with.

In M+at least from the perspective of networking if you wanna end up on good friendslists first mover advantage is big at the start of the season.

Getting a bit off topic tho, all of us have done our homework to Learn these keys, if we are doing +25s or higher through trial and error, some of us might learn faster if we have experience from previous seasons but its still a lot of work to learn these dungeons,what I see on these forums often is a lot of people who dont want to learn the ins and outs of these dungeons, how to minmax their class, etc and they just want free invites to keys.

TLDR: Make friends,play more,play better and push your own key and you will get score. I have seen some insane Hunter, so your class is not the limiting factor at all.


If I can get 3300 rio with 2 days a week of playtime and 0 mythic raid gear (2/8M gamer due to schedule issues), so can you.

[m4xc4v413r4]

I wouldn't say hilariously low, since you're in the top 10%, but it's certainly not enough to get invited to 20s unless you know the party leader.

tbh, top 10% doesn't mean anything here. 2500 is around rank 300.000 world, which indeed is around 10% of the around 3 million characters with any rank in raider.io, but most people at like 1.000.000 rank haven't even done 15's and the last 1.300.000 ranks have barely even done any basic mythic+, not even doing basic levels on all dungeons. If we're going to count all that we might as well count the people that don't even do M+ and have 0 score, since any of them can easily surpass half the list instantly in their first week by just doing basic M+ levels on each dungeon.

[Jester Joe]

Cry me a river, I remember trying to push high keys as a prot paladin in S3 when BDK was such a dominant class you would get declined all day even for keys you didnt need for score.

I know what its like, the community isnt going to change, either push your own keys, make a premade or put up with it

Again, "I deal with it so shut up and don't criticize it" isn't an argument.

It's just a cop out. Nor does mocking really help your point at all.

[thunderdragon2]

So, your only choices are - buckle up and push that score at least to 2700, so people would even consider you for a sec AND/OR run with a guild (best option) AND/OR apply to everything there is not just SBG.

been trying but not been having much luck getting my score much higher for example this week i have halls, vault and nokhud on a 18 out of time for tyra every time i try to do a 18/19 halls it ALWAYS ends at herja or hymdal, vaults never seems to get timed and as for nokhud i haven't seen many of those up at 18/19 that lack a dps so cant comment

i got a life pools at a 19 but after getting my 22 demolished by idiocy this week to a 19 i have no desire to try to pug it again... so im kind of stuck, gona retry the 3 out of timed 18s again tonight but not very hopeful as this just seems to be a shitty week for trying to time stuff at certain points, guess i just need to get very lucky.....

guess i might as well not bother trying to pug 20s this week as there's no chance of me getting 130 pints

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I already have done my fair shaee of headbashing to learn mechanics,I didnt play beta so I went I to the dungeons blind, managed to time my first 15s on day 1, get my 418 weapon day 3 with premal infusion,by week 2 I had a few 20s done by week 3 I had all 20s done.

Right now I have my 25s done and need 26s.

Yes definitely theres no shortcut other than just learning the dungeons, but another part is, just being brave and trying to push your own key up as high as possible, especially at the start of the season its worth trying to push fast because you can network with a lot of players that you usually dont have the opportunity to play with.

In M+at least from the perspective of networking if you wanna end up on good friendslists first mover advantage is big at the start of the season.

Getting a bit off topic tho, all of us have done our homework to Learn these keys, if we are doing +25s or higher through trial and error, some of us might learn faster if we have experience from previous seasons but its still a lot of work to learn these dungeons,what I see on these forums often is a lot of people who dont want to learn the ins and outs of these dungeons, how to minmax their class, etc and they just want free invites to keys.

TLDR: Make friends,play more,play better and push your own key and you will get score. I have seen some insane Hunter, so your class is not the limiting factor at all.


If I can get 3300 rio with 2 days a week of playtime and 0 mythic raid gear (2/8M gamer due to schedule issues), so can you.

i guess the bolded is my issue here as im afraid of going into key burnout by pushing to hard to fast..... i tend to get sore later in the season to avoid burn out so i guess i miss all of those "networking" opportunities

[Gaidax]

Then, quite frankly, sucks to be you.

If you can't push or don't have a guild with decent players - then it's your limit. Don't expect invites when you don't have the numbers or friends.