Are Evokers getting a new spec?

[Teriz]

This looks interesting;

https://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/404269-ebon-might

Ebon Might
Instant
Upon casting any spell, Sarkareth empowers his allies with the might of the Black dragons. This effect increases their damage done and movement speed by 20%. Upon reaching 10 applications, the target becomes immune to crowd controlling and interrupting effects.

Ebon Might
Stacks up to 99 times
Damage done increased by 20%.
Movement speed increased by 20%.

At 10 stacks, the caster becomes immune to crowd controlling and interrupting effects.

10 minutes remaining

This would have to be downgraded significantly, but the general mechanics are definitely sound.

[Ielenia]

What reason is there that they can't introduce a new spec in a .x patch?

Balance. The addition of a type of spec that heavily up-ends and changes the established status quo of the famous "holy trinity" of specs is too big a change to happen mid-expansion.

[Teriz]

Balance. The addition of a type of spec that heavily up-ends and changes the established status quo of the famous "holy trinity" of specs is too big a change to happen mid-expansion.

It’s doubtful it’s going to be a 4th role. It’s more likely a spec that operates within the Trinity. Healing or DPS is possible, Dual role (healing/dps) like old feral is also a possibility.

[Makorus]

Balance. The addition of a type of spec that heavily up-ends and changes the established status quo of the famous "holy trinity" of specs is too big a change to happen mid-expansion.

Why would that be too big of a change? What difference does it make if it happens at the start of a season vs the start of an expansion?

[Ielenia]

Why would that be too big of a change?

Dude, it's a completely new role that doesn't fit any of the established three roles. It's a role that would require current specs to be stripped of most, if not all of their support abilities so that the new, singular support spec actually be useful. It's a role that would also make evokers mandatory in a raid and/or m+ groups since they'll be the only support class in the game.

What difference does it make if it happens at the start of a season vs the start of an expansion?

Because the beginning of an expansion gives players time to get used to the new changes during leveling, and through heroic/mythic dungeons before the raids and m+ open.

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It’s doubtful it’s going to be a 4th role. It’s more likely a spec that operates within the Trinity. Healing or DPS is possible, Dual role (healing/dps) like old feral is also a possibility.

So if it's not a support spec, it'd be just another healing or dps spec?

[Staccato]

Balance. The addition of a type of spec that heavily up-ends and changes the established status quo of the famous "holy trinity" of specs is too big a change to happen mid-expansion.

Here's the thing, I do appreciate a healthy amount of doubt but at this point we're certainly looking at enough data that points to something, and even if you didn't believe it there seems to be enough evidence to speculate about.

I think you are over emphasizing what a single support spec would do in this game. There are a few scenarios that could happen but I want you to keep in mind the Damage/Support spells that we already have in game:

-This spec will be mildly balanced in damage, meaning that it is not meant to be at the top of the meters at all times, but somewhere in the middle because of it's unique ability to augment the raid. This means that this class could afford to perhaps buff an ally or two for damage, or movement speed, or damage reduction, or cooldown reduction - whatever - because the end point is to make the people who do perform well perform even better. This is a class fantasy for some people that they are willing to engage with, but because it's meant to be an average damage dealer, Blizzard could always control the extra damage it provides.

-This spec will be very OP in terms of its base damage, be very strong at support while providing damage buffs to players, and will be unchecked to balance since it would be required to bring to mythic progression (but wait, some classes already are necessary for that). In this case sure, I could see your point. Do you really think Blizzard would just do that?

-Finally, the spec could just underperform overall. Maybe it has mild damage, but mild support that isn't worthwhile bringing. Maybe it has comparable damage to Devastation (which has fallen quite a bit since it's adjustments), but good support. We don't know.

This game is very old. The developers they have now are very likely younger and its not some wild unplausible idea to introduce a spec that the main story is pointing to. I'm for it personally. Lets shake it up and surprise the kids.

[Teriz]

So if it's not a support spec, it'd be just another healing or dps spec?

Pretty much, unless they’re talking about a tank spec. Ebon Might gives me pause though, because it fits the idea of augmentation like a glove, AND it’s a black dragon spell.

[Triceron]

Why should naysayers apologize for not being wrong? Do we have a third spec up for testing in the PTR? No. Do we have actual confirmation from Blizzard? No.

Because doubling down on ignorance is not the way to win an argument.

These same arguments were used against Evoker rumors back in DF, against Dark Ranger content in Shadowlands, etc. "It's not on PTR' is not a good reason, it's an excuse.

Same problem arise when you doubled down on the idiotic 'Evokers don't use Black Dragon magic, they don't have a spec based on it' and now that we have very strong datamines suggesting it you're still doubling down on 'It's not actually confirmed' while prociaming that it isn't going to happen.

For someone who keeps criticizing people for stating opinion as facts, you're doing quite a bit of that right now.

[Renchard]

Their wording has been very much hinting at this possibility.

They've said in interviews that they want to focus on Healing and RDPS for Evokers right now. And they've talked about tanking for Evokers, and how they played around with the idea very early on in development. So we know the evoker's gone through many iterations of design, and it's very possible that they had something planned as a 3rd spec. It makes sense for them to polish 2 specs to make sure they hit launch deadlines.

It's also possible they realized that introducing something as bag as a new, novel spec is a good way to generate hype during the mid-expansion doldrums.

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This would have to be downgraded significantly, but the general mechanics are definitely sound.

If they did do it, I don't think they would provide a lot of multiplicative buffs, because that's where you get wonky scaling. It would make more sense to give out static number buffs (like that the target's next attack does 50,000 damage), with the number scaling with the evoker's stats, not the target.

Basically, the evoker does a rotation, but the bulk of the "damage" turns into a radiated effect that grants a damage proc to nearby (or all) allies. Like disc, but the evoker's damage turns into a buff given to allies rather than healing.

[Berkilak]

It’s doubtful it’s going to be a 4th role. It’s more likely a spec that operates within the Trinity. Healing or DPS is possible, Dual role (healing/dps) like old feral is also a possibility.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they actually tried their hand at a modern support spec, tentatively exploring a return of the support role. So much possibility was lost when they codified the trinity in WotLK. Support, mezzers, offtanks, hybrids, and so on... there's so much diversity that has just been left out in the cold by modern MMO developers.

[Ielenia]

Because doubling down on ignorance is not the way to win an argument.

These same arguments were used against Evoker rumors back in DF, against Dark Ranger content in Shadowlands, etc. "It's not on PTR' is not a good reason, it's an excuse.

Same problem arise when you doubled down on the idiotic 'Evokers don't use Black Dragon magic, they don't have a spec based on it' and now that we have very strong datamines suggesting it you're still doubling down on 'It's not actually confirmed' while prociaming that it isn't going to happen.

For someone who keeps criticizing people for stating opinion as facts, you're doing quite a bit of that right now.

It's not "doubling down" and it's not "ignorance". The poster I responded to is acting as if Blizzard has already given 100% confirmation and guarantee, signed in blood, that evokers are getting a new spec, and that those that say it's not happening are wrong, and therefore should apologize.

Nothing has been confirmed. Nothing has been denied. It's still all up in speculation, so the "naysayers" are not wrong yet, just like the "yes-sayers" are not wrong yet either. So there's nothing to apologize.

[Triceron]

It's not "doubling down" and it's not "ignorance".

I'm refering to this statement:

It's not going to happen. Because it doesn't make sense, especially if it's introduced in this way. It makes no sense to introduce a class and then introduce another spec to it later on in this way because it implies that this was by design and, design-wise, it literally has no benefits whatsoever.

Do you know it's not going to happen as a fact? Is it confirmed not going to happen?

If you don't know while proclaiming this as a fact, then it is a statement in ignorance. You didn't say 'it hasn't happened yet', you said 'It's not going to happen'

That is what is ignorant.

[Ielenia]

Here's the thing, I do appreciate a healthy amount of doubt but at this point we're certainly looking at enough data that points to something, and even if you didn't believe it there seems to be enough evidence to speculate about.

I never said people can't speculate. I am simply pointing out the facts of how suddenly adding a new class role would massively change the status quo, and that is why it wouldn't happen mid-expansion: it's too big a change.

I think you are over emphasizing what a single support spec would do in this game. There are a few scenarios that could happen but I want you to keep in mind the Damage/Support spells that we already have in game:

I'm not overemphasizing. I'm simply telling you how it is: every time a spec overperforms, it shoots straight up the meta ladder, to the point of almost becoming "mandatory" to have at least one player of such spec in the group. What do you think will happen when we have only one singular spec out of 39 that can choose this new role?

its not some wild unplausible idea to introduce a spec that the main story is pointing to.

It is. It really is not plausible. Because of all the stuff that would be fucked up if that happened.

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Pretty much, unless they’re talking about a tank spec. Ebon Might gives me pause though, because it fits the idea of augmentation like a glove, AND it’s a black dragon spell.

Another healing or dps spec is more believable than a support spec, but I still doubt it'll ever happen in this expansion because of how it can fuck up with the status quo, because I know Blizzard can't properly balance new class/specs. Every class they introduce either come out of the oven very overpowered, or very underperforming.

[Staccato]

I'm not overemphasizing. I'm simply telling you how it is: every time a spec overperforms, it shoots straight up the meta ladder, to the point of almost becoming "mandatory" to have at least one player of such spec in the group. What do you think will happen when we have only one singular spec out of 39 that can choose this new role?

There are a lot of cooldowns that only one spec can provide. Power Infusion is about as supporty as it gets, and we are okay with that because its assigned to as healer. I don't think another version of that with a DPS spec that is based around augmenting your group is broken. We have a lot of specs that currently are able to provide cool effects but they are not the crux of the class.

It is. It really is not plausible. Because of all the stuff that would be fucked up if that happened.
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Another healing or dps spec is more believable than a support spec, but I still doubt it'll ever happen in this expansion because of how it can fuck up with the status quo, because I know Blizzard can't properly balance new class/specs. Every class they introduce either come out of the oven very overpowered, or very underperforming.

Either way it's going to be a spec who's fantasy is based in augmenting(NOT support because its triggering for some of yall) your allies. It could only really be a DPS class that provides 1-2 things to the group for flavor, or a Healing Class with the fantasy of...the earth. bfr lmao.

[Berkilak]

I'm not overemphasizing. I'm simply telling you how it is:

Never have I encountered a person that says they're "telling it like it is" who wasn't overemphasizing their own personal perspective.

[Okacz]

I never said people can't speculate. I am simply pointing out the facts of how suddenly adding a new class role would massively change the status quo, and that is why it wouldn't happen mid-expansion: it's too big a change.

How about we flip it around. Adding a spec of an existing role (tank/healing/mdps/rdps) could be a bigger mess for the balance team, as each addition would interact in multiple ways with pre-existing specs of the same type. But a spec of an entirely new role? Why not. It's a single tuning knob, worst case scenario you leave it as a meme pick, otherwise you can tune raid encounters around one or two of insert_spec_names and adjust accordingly, depending on how much they bring to the table.

Way less of a hassle to tune, and always leaves a room to re-do it for the next expansion, making it focus on damage/tanking more than whatever its support was.

[Ielenia]

There are a lot of cooldowns that only one spec can provide. Power Infusion is about as supporty as it gets, and we are okay with that because its assigned to as healer. I don't think another version of that with a DPS spec that is based around augmenting your group is broken. We have a lot of specs that currently are able to provide cool effects but they are not the crux of the class.

Yes, there's a lot of powerful CDs that only one class can provide, such as Power Infusion, like you pointed out. However, and this is the kicker: it's just one cooldown. Now imagine one singular spec chock-full of such cooldowns, because that is the role of the spec: to provide such boost CDs to their party. Some classes having one powerful support CD is not a problem. One singular spec having many powerful support CDs is a problem.

[Vaedan]

It’s doubtful it’s going to be a 4th role. It’s more likely a spec that operates within the Trinity. Healing or DPS is possible, Dual role (healing/dps) like old feral is also a possibility.

I don't think they are going to do dual role again, old feral was split into two specs for a reason.
You are also now able to respec anytime during combat, if you need to fullfil other role, you can just swap your spec.
I agree with you that the new spec can operate within DPS/Heal role with some boosting/debuffing utilities. That could work.

[Ielenia]

How about we flip it around. Adding a spec of an existing role (tank/healing/mdps/rdps) could be a bigger mess for the balance team, as each addition would interact in multiple ways with pre-existing specs of the same type. But a spec of an entirely new role? Why not.

The reason why is blatantly obvious: it would require a big change to almost all the existing classes, who would most likely lose most if not all of their support abilities so that a new "support" role can be added and still be meaningful. It literally shakes up the status quo.

[Makorus]

It doesn't really matter what the spec is like.

You'd have to be deluding yourself if you think, after all this, that nothing is happening.