WTF Is a 20 tier skips?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Cancer is far worse than AIDS nowadays, you should be happy you got AIDS!"

We really gonna compare it to diseases that kill thousands?


Ok bro.

[Sorshen]

You want free stuff, you get free quality stuff.

You want EXTRA quality stuff, you got to pay extra.

The only reason people perceive this as a problem is because they somehow have it in their heads that if MTX or passes didn't exist, we'd be getting the exact same stuff without paying. Except we wouldn't. Because making that stuff costs money, and if you aren't selling it to get that money, then guess what - YOU'RE NOT MAKING IT.

You still get a bunch of cosmetics for free, like you always did. You just also get the option to get ADDITIONAL cosmetics for money.

They aren't just sitting on a pile of cosmetics that magically appeared and now they have to choose do we just hand them out or do we sell them. That's idiotic to suggest, explicitly or by implication.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify not having them in the actual fucking game. Stuff costs money? Wisdom of the ages right here. Why would the customer care about their internal project management woes?

They already made those assets, they're not whipping their artists into churning them out on a conveyor belt like fresh bread. They have salaried positions and I'm not hearing about any layoffs. Or artists getting locked in cages until the next game release.

Blizzard made a commitment to release expansions, and those won't come free, they'll still extract money from the game after the initial sale. I'm getting the battlepass but it's disheartening to see this business model.

[Biomega]

That's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify not having them in the actual fucking game. Stuff costs money? Wisdom of the ages right here. Why would the customer care about their internal project management woes?

You're missing the point.

You're not GETTING LESS. You're getting exactly what you always got - cosmetics commensurate with what you paid for. Paid the box price only? You get the free cosmetics only.

THAT HASN'T CHANGED.

What's changed is that you now have the OPTION to get MORE.

And you are making the mistake of implying that you are somehow "getting less" as a consumer now just because those options exist. That's a fallacy. Those additional options only exist BECAUSE they're intended for sale.

That's why e.g. D3 didn't have super amazing premium cosmetics. It had no mechanism to sell those (in the West; they did in China, and so China got dope extra stuff we never got), so all you got was a selection of regular stuff, much of which still looks pretty dope - JUST AS IT IS IN D4, where you're STILL getting a bunch of free cosmetics that look awesome.

They already made those assets

Yes - by spending money on them that they plan to recoup through MTX/pass sales. If they had not planned for those sales, they would not have made them.

You're essentially walking into a car dealership arguing you should get a car for free because hey the manufacturer "already made those cars". They made them TO BE SOLD. If they weren't selling them THEY WOULD NOT MAKE THEM.

That's exactly the kind of mental disconnect I'm talking about, that people just seem to uncritically fall victim to left and right.

[sunxsera]

I'm okay with battle passes for cosmetics - but it gets stupid when they additionally want to sell addons for like ~50$.

[crusadernero]

Most games cost 70 bucks these days, single player games you might only play once compared to diablo where you could get hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay, the price for the ultimate version is very reasonable considering the amount of gameplay you will get from the game. If giving them a little more money now and then makes the game even better then its worth it.

I suppose could is key here. D3 was barely worth the money for me. Played through story, grinded a little, got bored cause the game was mediocre. Never logged back in.

Also, Blizzard getting more money doesnt automatically mean better game. Thats not how it works.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm okay with battle passes for cosmetics - but it gets stupid when they additionally want to sell addons for like ~50$.

Thing is, its a fine line with these battlepasses. The minute we accept and are fine with BP with only cosmetics, there might very well be something else on the next BP. XP boosts, potions, gems, proff materials - whatever, sky is the limit.

We are probably at the point were cosmetics on BP is fine enough for most players. As such, we should expect this to rapidly get worse.

Is what it is.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Ruining what? Are people this childish that cosmetics mean so much to them.

It is COSMETIC only and that is the lowest hanging fruit you can be upset about.

Don't bother, you are already beyond redepmtion.

Just keep consooming.

[Biomega]

Thing is, its a fine line with these battlepasses. The minute we accept and are fine with BP with only cosmetics, there might very well be something else on the next BP. XP boosts, potions, gems, proff materials - whatever, sky is the limit.

Slippery slope arguments have never been convincing to me, I have to say.

If you can't trust yourself as a consumer to draw a line, we have a much more serious problem. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with going "you know what, I thought I'd hate this but now that I've gotten used to it, it's not that bad" - that's how a lot of stuff works in life. It doesn't mean it's Stockholm syndrome setting in, or the frog getting ready to turn into frog soup. That only works if you're unwilling to critically examine your own behavior, and aren't honest enough with yourself to actually say No when a line has been crossed.

That's not to say this isn't abused - the fact that a lot of people AREN'T critical of their own behavior and DON'T have the rectitude to draw a line is precisely what's being exploited. But the solution is to fix that failing, not complain that people are taking advantage of it.

Actually stop giving companies money. Emphasis on ACTUALLY. This works because people allow it, so... don't. The truth is, a lot of people value their own ostensible stance on certain issues less than their own FOMO, hype, and peer pressure. Which means... they're actually being true to themselves, and what they're lying about is the stance they're supposedly taking.

If a battlepass for cosmetics and whatnot is genuinely something where you say "I can't support this" - then don't. I mean it, this is not some snide cheap shot or derisive remark. Actually stop giving them money. That's the clearest message you can send.

But if your stance is "I can't support this.... buuuuut all my friends are playing and it's big on Twitch and everyone's talking about it and my social media is blowing up and... ah fuck it, I'll buy it" then the only problem is the very first part of that sequence - because clearly you CAN support it, because you just did. You just don't want people to think you do, because that buys you some kind of cred.

I couldn't give two fucks about the current battlepass system in D4. It's not something that would ever interest me, but it's also not something that impacts me negatively. Not that I have seen in any provable way. In fact it's a positive, because the expectation is (so far) that there'll be regular season content that's free, bought and paid for by the people who choose to purchase the battle pass. Which won't be me, but which will benefit me.

The slippery slope doesn't interest me, because as soon as things DO change and it DOES end up impacting me negatively, I trust myself to have the fundamental honesty to say a line has been crossed, and to stop my support from that moment on. But I do that only based on reality, not based on speculation. If and when they go too far, I'll cut them off - I won't go "but wait it COULD happen!" and act on that kind of speculation. Does that mean they are potentially roping me into a $70 purchase that I can't back out of if they start selling legendaries six months down the line? That's right. And I'm entirely fine with taking that risk.

[crusadernero]

Slippery slope arguments have never been convincing to me, I have to say.

If you can't trust yourself as a consumer to draw a line, we have a much more serious problem. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with going "you know what, I thought I'd hate this but now that I've gotten used to it, it's not that bad" - that's how a lot of stuff works in life. It doesn't mean it's Stockholm syndrome setting in, or the frog getting ready to turn into frog soup. That only works if you're unwilling to critically examine your own behavior, and aren't honest enough with yourself to actually say No when a line has been crossed.

That's not to say this isn't abused - the fact that a lot of people AREN'T critical of their own behavior and DON'T have the rectitude to draw a line is precisely what's being exploited. But the solution is to fix that failing, not complain that people are taking advantage of it.

Actually stop giving companies money. Emphasis on ACTUALLY. This works because people allow it, so... don't. The truth is, a lot of people value their own ostensible stance on certain issues less than their own FOMO, hype, and peer pressure. Which means... they're actually being true to themselves, and what they're lying about is the stance they're supposedly taking.

If a battlepass for cosmetics and whatnot is genuinely something where you say "I can't support this" - then don't. I mean it, this is not some snide cheap shot or derisive remark. Actually stop giving them money. That's the clearest message you can send.

But if your stance is "I can't support this.... buuuuut all my friends are playing and it's big on Twitch and everyone's talking about it and my social media is blowing up and... ah fuck it, I'll buy it" then the only problem is the very first part of that sequence - because clearly you CAN support it, because you just did. You just don't want people to think you do, because that buys you some kind of cred.

I couldn't give two fucks about the current battlepass system in D4. It's not something that would ever interest me, but it's also not something that impacts me negatively. Not that I have seen in any provable way. In fact it's a positive, because the expectation is (so far) that there'll be regular season content that's free, bought and paid for by the people who choose to purchase the battle pass. Which won't be me, but which will benefit me.

The slippery slope doesn't interest me, because as soon as things DO change and it DOES end up impacting me negatively, I trust myself to have the fundamental honesty to say a line has been crossed, and to stop my support from that moment on. But I do that only based on reality, not based on speculation. If and when they go too far, I'll cut them off - I won't go "but wait it COULD happen!" and act on that kind of speculation. Does that mean they are potentially roping me into a $70 purchase that I can't back out of if they start selling legendaries six months down the line? That's right. And I'm entirely fine with taking that risk.

I agree with most of of what you said. Yes, I can (and others ofc) can take a choice of not spending money on this stuff. I can easily admit I have done so in the past, but its been a long time since. These days I dont do it at all. If theres games were power gains are obtained via BP, I most of the time dont even bother playing it, especially if its a multiplayer game.

[Biomega]

I agree with most of of what you said. Yes, I can (and others ofc) can take a choice of not spending money on this stuff. I can easily admit I have done so in the past, but its been a long time since. These days I dont do it at all. If theres games were power gains are obtained via BP, I most of the time dont even bother playing it, especially if its a multiplayer game.

I'm honestly not even that principled. I'm selfish - I only care "is this fun for me?". Has that USUALLY meant that I never pay for passes or MTX? It has. But I am not excluding it categorically, I just don't tend to be attracted to games that are in for a cheap buck in the first place, for reasons not directly related to the MTX - I don't play them because I think they, you know, SUCK.

I've had no problem paying WoW its monthly due for years of my life. I even bought a WoW token once, because I couldn't be bothered to farm gold on a region I only play on with one particular friend. I was fine with those purchases, because I was having a good time. And when I stopped having a good time in SL? I stopped paying them money. I quit the game, didn't sub anymore, didn't buy DF - not because I thought Blizzard needed to be punished or because I protested whatever behavior they displayed during their scandal, or whatever else. But purely because the game wasn't fun for me anymore, and nothing so far has suggested to me it would be again.

That's what responsible consumers should always be doing: be discerning. Apportion your purchase to your personal standards of quality and enjoyment. You don't owe companies anything, least of all your money or time.

Will you change anything for the better overnight? No. But what else can you do if you want to be honest to any kind of personal standard and conviction?

[Utrrabbit]

Don't bother, you are already beyond redepmtion.

Just keep consooming.

? I never buy anything from cash shops or battle passes so I have no idea what you are talking about, and even than you are still over reacting over cosmetics and some catch up. Again, the low hanging fruit.

[rhorle]

They already made those assets...

If they never decided to have a premium cosmetics would they have made them? If they were not cut from the game then they wouldn't have been part of the game in the first place.

[Utrrabbit]

Actually stop giving companies money. Emphasis on ACTUALLY. This works because people allow it, so... don't. The truth is, a lot of people value their own ostensible stance on certain issues less than their own FOMO, hype, and peer pressure. Which means... they're actually being true to themselves, and what they're lying about is the stance they're supposedly taking.

If a battlepass for cosmetics and whatnot is genuinely something where you say "I can't support this" - then don't. I mean it, this is not some snide cheap shot or derisive remark. Actually stop giving them money. That's the clearest message you can send.

But if your stance is "I can't support this.... buuuuut all my friends are playing and it's big on Twitch and everyone's talking about it and my social media is blowing up and... ah fuck it, I'll buy it" then the only problem is the very first part of that sequence - because clearly you CAN support it, because you just did. You just don't want people to think you do, because that buys you some kind of cred.

The line "stop giving companies" money is be far the largest line of bull I have ever read by anyone when they try and use it as a defense. Wait, so you mean the money they use to pay their employees and develope said products? That money. Yup let's stoo investing in that. That is smart and will show them, when they have to lay off workers. Before you go on about how that is not a thing, I know people who have lost jobs due to just that.

[rhorle]

Thing is, its a fine line with these battlepasses. The minute we accept and are fine with BP with only cosmetics, there might very well be something else on the next BP. XP boosts, potions, gems, proff materials - whatever, sky is the limit.

The sky is always falling yet rarely falls. People have been saying that same argument about WoW over the last 13 years since they started selling cosmetics. They even just recently gave them away for in-game currency. You only expect it to get rapidly worse because you don't like it and need to spin it towards dislike somehow.

- - - Updated - - -

That is smart and will show them, when they have to lay off workers. Before you go on about how that is not a thing, I know people who have lost jobs due to just that.

What? We have to support terrible products because of their workers could be good people? If you are not happy with their product you don't keep giving the company money.

[crusadernero]

I'm honestly not even that principled. I'm selfish - I only care "is this fun for me?". Has that USUALLY meant that I never pay for passes or MTX? It has. But I am not excluding it categorically, I just don't tend to be attracted to games that are in for a cheap buck in the first place, for reasons not directly related to the MTX - I don't play them because I think they, you know, SUCK.

I've had no problem paying WoW its monthly due for years of my life. I even bought a WoW token once, because I couldn't be bothered to farm gold on a region I only play on with one particular friend. I was fine with those purchases, because I was having a good time. And when I stopped having a good time in SL? I stopped paying them money. I quit the game, didn't sub anymore, didn't buy DF - not because I thought Blizzard needed to be punished or because I protested whatever behavior they displayed during their scandal, or whatever else. But purely because the game wasn't fun for me anymore, and nothing so far has suggested to me it would be again.

That's what responsible consumers should always be doing: be discerning. Apportion your purchase to your personal standards of quality and enjoyment. You don't owe companies anything, least of all your money or time.

Will you change anything for the better overnight? No. But what else can you do if you want to be honest to any kind of personal standard and conviction?

Sure - the most important part is wether or not you actually enjoy playing the game. Sometimes I think alot of people actually buy BP (or whatever else in games) despite not really having lots of fun with it. Especially in online games, even more so in FOMO situations.

I've been a sub for wow a loooong time. Once im bored, I unsub. Sure, I have probably had months of active subs were I havent played. Especially years back. These days? Hell no.

[Biomega]

The line "stop giving companies" money is be far the largest line of bull I have ever read by anyone when they try and use it as a defense. Wait, so you mean the money they use to pay their employees and develope said products? That money. Yup let's stoo investing in that. That is smart and will show them, when they have to lay off workers. Before you go on about how that is not a thing, I know people who have lost jobs due to just that.

Speaking of "largest line of bull"...

What kind of capitalist propaganda is THAT lol. You don't owe companies anything, and you don't owe their employees anything, either. THEY owe their employees - not only compensation for the work they do, but also a forward-looking business strategy that ensures they keep their jobs in the future. Usually by, you know, making products people WANT to buy. If people stop buying their product, they better start thinking about why, and making changes. And if they don't, and employees lose their job... that's the COMPANY'S fault, not the customers'.

What kind of bizarre neoliberal guilt trip is this where you go "noooo you gotta keep buying shit products, think of the woooorkers!".

[Uselessrouge]

found the blizz dev

On a serious note, you probably don't give a fuck but you are ruining gaming for some of us. There is a special place in hell for your type.

i agree with him , if its cosmetics and makes a game get updates and content? go ahead add seasons and battle pass its a pass time and supports the game .

But i agree with blizz you never know.. its a dangerous line the time i trusted those guys was a long time ago now its all about numbers and money

[glowpipe]

Dont expect Blizzard to do jack shit with D4 except the bare minimum. Just because they make money, doesnt mean they will add LOTS of new content for the game. Your argument is that everything is about maximum profit at all costs, no matter what cause gamers doesnt mean anything. As such, why spend time creating new content? Thats just bad. Do the bare minimum, milk the playerbase, kick back and relax.

But to be able to milk the playerbase, they need to have a playerbase, to have a playerbase you need to provide content to keep them playing. Its quite simple really

[chiddie]

Well you isn't the rest of the playerbase though. All though i'm sure alot of people wanna be strong + wanna look good. Being strong and looking like doggy sure isn't motivating to grind.

Have you played the beta? Even the WHITE gear is crafted beautifully. You won’t have to buy cosmetics to not resemble a dog while wandering around.

[Zenfoldor]

I'm okay with battle passes for cosmetics - but it gets stupid when they additionally want to sell addons for like ~50$.

Destiny 2 is crazy, CRAZY expensive. Just to get my license up to date and play for 1 year I recently had to spend:

$100 dollars on the yearly pass + new xpak
$29.99 for Witch Queen(if you want Osteo Striga better pony up)
$24.99 for the Destiny anniversary pack(if you want Gjallarhorn, better pony up)

THEN on top of that, spent like 5 bucks bumping my season level and will probably spend more to reach 100 if I don't get it organically by season end.

That is before even touching cosmetics in the eververse store.

This is ON TOP of the likely thousand dollars I've spent on Destiny 2 over the years which is now like completely meaningless money.

Destiny 2 is expensive. That f2p game ain't really free 2 win, now if you actually want to play it with the meta.

It looks to me like Diablo 4 is based on Destiny 2. If you play D2, you recognize it. It is much, much closer to Destiny 2 than wow. I'm not saying they will make you spend real life money, but I do believe that is their goal.

[Jujudrood]

The battle pass is cosmetic and purely optional.
It's like buying a car that comes with gray seats for 30k, then the dealership says "you can change to black seats for a one time payment" and you replying with "well, I already purchased the car, so I should just get the black seats for free".
Do you lose functionality with gray seats? Nope. Do you have an edge on anyone else if you get the black seats? Nope.

Same deal here.
Blizz has said since basically day 1 that there will be a game with multiple 'editions' and things that come with it, then in addition to that, a cosmetic store and cosmetic battle pass.
You get the game and all that comes with it, as advertised, and also additional stuff down the road in terms of content updates and such, then if you want the extra cosmetic stuff from the store/pass, you pay for it.
If you want it quicker, you pay for the "skips", just like you pay for expedited shipping on something you order, where next day costs more than 3-5 business day.
You just get it faster than others.