Baine's Purpose

[Aucald]

Kragwa smashed the Blood Trolls like nothing. And I doubt the Zandalari have a population large enough that could settle in Nazmir even IF the blood troll threat is taken care of. Like there was a reason why they left the swamps centuries ago.

Loa are always powerful compared to random mooks, but that doesn't change the fact that Kragwa had to break down some of his sacred offerings to even acquire the power to do that - he's shown to essentially be on his last leg, though there's hope he is recovering now that he's acquired a new high priest and is no longer under siege by the Blood Trolls. I also doubt the Zandalari would resettle in Nazmir, but that wasn't what I was originally responding to, either - @LemonDemonGirl pondered if Bwonsamdi likely rules over Nazmir now, and given the updates over the course of BfA and Shadowlands, I generally agreed with the theory. Except for his adherents, I doubt the rank and file of the Zandalari want much to do with him personally.

[Grazrug]

Loa are always powerful compared to random mooks, but that doesn't change the fact that Kragwa had to break down some of his sacred offerings to even acquire the power to do that - he's shown to essentially be on his last leg, though there's hope he is recovering now that he's acquired a new high priest and is no longer under siege by the Blood Trolls. I also doubt the Zandalari would resettle in Nazmir, but that wasn't what I was originally responding to, either - @LemonDemonGirl pondered if Bwonsamdi likely rules over Nazmir now, and given the updates over the course of BfA and Shadowlands, I generally agreed with the theory. Except for his adherents, I doubt the rank and file of the Zandalari want much to do with him personally.

Speaking of resettling. Vol'dun should become normal again now that Sethraliss is back? I like to see the trolls rebuilding what they lost.

[Aucald]

Speaking of resettling. Vol'dun should become normal again now that Sethraliss is back? I like to see the trolls rebuilding what they lost.

It wasn't just the death of Sethraliss that rendered Vol'dun an inhospitable desert, unfortunately. The change in ecology is both attributed to the Loa's death and "various cataclysms" that rocked the region, probably including the Cataclysm, which I doubt Sethraliss could fix unilaterally. Not to say it's impossible, but it would probably take quite a bit of effort and time to terraform Vol'dun back into something approaching what it once was.

[Venziir]

More akin to the pharaohs of Egypt.
It's annoying but it keeps trolls in general at or near parity with other races.

Or... You know... The aztecs.

[Grazrug]

Or... You know... The aztecs.

Literally all troll sub races are inspired by meso america.

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It wasn't just the death of Sethraliss that rendered Vol'dun an inhospitable desert, unfortunately. The change in ecology is both attributed to the Loa's death and "various cataclysms" that rocked the region, probably including the Cataclysm, which I doubt Sethraliss could fix unilaterally. Not to say it's impossible, but it would probably take quite a bit of effort and time to terraform Vol'dun back into something approaching what it once was.

Alliance actually controls all zones of Kul Tiras plus mechagon. Zandalar however only has a single zone where the trolls reign. That is odd. This should change. I want the trolls to rise back to the power they once had.

[Venziir]

Literally all troll sub races are inspired by meso america.

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Alliance actually controls all zones of Kul Tiras plus mechagon. Zandalar however only has a single zone where the trolls reign. That is odd. This should change. I want the trolls to rise back to the power they once had.

Eh no. Forest trolls, ice trolls, dark trolls, sand trolls etc aren't. They are a mix of caribean and other. The zandalari are the only meso american ones.

[Grazrug]

Eh no. Forest trolls, ice trolls, dark trolls, sand trolls etc aren't. They are a mix of caribean and other. The zandalari are the only meso american ones.

Their accent is carribian. Their culture is not. They build pyramids and eqcaducts. That is stuff you find in central and south america. All large tribes share this feat.

[Skytotem]

Right? These guys on this forum always call Baine a "coward" and a "craven", but how many characters have the balls to tell to Sylvanas' face to fuck off and that he betrayed her? I definitely think that BfA showed Baine's courage as a character. Standing up for his beliefs even in the face of a psycho who literally tortures and brainwashes dissidents (see what she tried to do to Koltira).

It's a shame that Baine was wasted in Shadowlands, all he did was get humiliated publicly by Zobald and then stare at a wall for 2 years. His most noteworthy moment was when he suggested that Sylvanas should never wake up, which was actually very badass and it's what most of the Community was thinking honestly.

The main problem with Baine is he didn't do anything after Teldrassil and has generally come across as whiny rather than principled

Even his big defiance of letting Jainas brother go comes across as too little too late

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YMMV, of course. But at this point, could he actually do anything that wouldn't make him more of a joke and/or meme in your eyes?

This is the core issue, he is practically impossible to repair at this point, nothing he says or does will be viewed charitably by the playerbase because he's been mishandled too many times in the past

[LemonDemonGirl]

Their accent is carribian. Their culture is not. They build pyramids and eqcaducts. That is stuff you find in central and south america. All large tribes share this feat.

Uhh Zandalari have African accents, not Caribbean ones? Pretty sure it's because of the Black Panther being popular when BfA came out.

[Raisei]

I dare you to have Tyrande call a settlement of her people a valid military target and then await the reaction of the Night elf community about it. You can be sure that the outrage would be cosmic.

I am truely at awe. You probably could not have picked a race that had to eat more shit then the Nightelfs from the writing team for your comparison. There has not been any justice for any of the crimes done to them. including the near-genocide that occured only years ago. Nothing has been done to make up for it. The prepetrator is gonna return from her community service in a couple of patches, the Horde itself has escaped punishment completely.

Tyrande has already accepted this and has with that sanctioned the fact that there will be no justice for her murdered people. That is the same thing Baine did for Taurajo, with the slight difference that with the Nightelves it really WAS a civilian target with no way of fighting back and the fact that it was about thousand times the population of Taurajo that was murdered.

Frankly, the little gripe of the Horde community with Baine is nothing against what the Nightelf community had to endure with their favourite race being slaughtered every time the Horde needs to work out some aggressions without ever seeing justice.

[Grazrug]

I am truely at awe. You probably could not have picked a race that had to eat more shit then the Nightelfs from the writing team for your comparison. There has not been any justice for any of the crimes done to them. including the near-genocide that occured only years ago. Nothing has been done to make up for it. The prepetrator is gonna return from her community service in a couple of patches, the Horde itself has escaped punishment completely.

Tyrande has already accepted this and has with that sanctioned the fact that there will be no justice for her murdered people. That is the same thing Baine did for Taurajo, with the slight difference that with the Nightelves it really WAS a civilian target with no way of fighting back and the fact that it was about thousand times the population of Taurajo that was murdered.

Frankly, the little gripe of the Horde community with Baine is nothing against what the Nightelf community had to endure with their favourite race being slaughtered every time the Horde needs to work out some aggressions without ever seeing justice.

Sylvanas was punished and Nathanos is dead. Most Horde soldiers are dead too. You got your revenge. Meanwhile Jaina is roaming free because she is protected by Baine and Thrall. Rastakhan will never be avenged. That is much worse then the penalty for Teldrassil.

Tyrande actually cares about her people and did everything she could to avenge the fallen. Unlike Baine who ignored the alliance going rampage in the barrens so it fell to the Orcs to kill Hawthorne and his men. That day he has proven that he will be forever the leader of the Horde that is hated by the entire community.

Also Baine is the worst and I hope he is gonna die soon to be replaced by Magatha so that the Tauren might get their fangs back as it was in Warcraft 3.

[BB8]

I like his role within the Horde. It may be shallow to some, but for me its true Tauren nature.
Mayla is a cool character too. Moooo

[Skytotem]

Rastakhan will never be avenged. That is much worse then the penalty for Teldrassil.

Also Baine is the worst and I hope he is gonna die soon to be replaced by Magatha so that the Tauren might get their fangs back as it was in Warcraft 3.

1. That's a ridiculous equivalence to make, you're a crazy person.

2. Magatha's never going to be leader, and frankly I don't know why you'd want her to replace Baine. She's LESS competent than him.

[ThatsOurEric]

So did people here forget that the Grimtotem actually
WOULDN'T fight for the Horde seeing as how they see
themselves as racially superior to other races?

Yes, let's have the treacherous, racist and definitely more
evil version of the Tauren join the Horde.

Led by a crone who was responsible for the death
via dishonorable sabotage of a beloved Horde leader
(Cairne).

Stellar idea.

[Skytotem]

So did people here forget that the Grimtotem actually
WOULDN'T fight for the Horde seeing as how they see
themselves as racially superior to other races?

Yes, let's have the treacherous, racist and definitely more
evil version of the Tauren join the Horde.

Led by a crone who was responsible for the death
via dishonorable sabotage of a beloved Horde leader
(Cairne).

Stellar idea.

Well there's "Stormsong" Jevan Grimtotem who sided with Baine in his book and never showed up again.

[Super Dickmann]

1. That's a ridiculous equivalence to make, you're a crazy person.

2. Magatha's never going to be leader, and frankly I don't know why you'd want her to replace Baine. She's LESS competent than him.

Considering the life purpose of both Baine and Magatha is to topple Horde leaders, Baine's efforts ended with him in prison twice, one time in hell. Magatha on the other hand managed on the first try. Magatha's backing while doing so was one tribe of fairly inept tauren, whereas Baine in both attempts had the entire backing of the Alliance plus his fellow clowns.

[Raisei]

So did people here forget that the Grimtotem actually
WOULDN'T fight for the Horde seeing as how they see
themselves as racially superior to other races?

Yes, let's have the treacherous, racist and definitely more
evil version of the Tauren join the Horde.

Led by a crone who was responsible for the death
via dishonorable sabotage of a beloved Horde leader
(Cairne).

Stellar idea.

Yeah well, if you know Grazrug then you know that all this only makes him want them more. He is also advocating for Gul'dan, Kael and Sylvanas being reinstated as leaders. The more evil the character is the better for his idea of the Horde.

[Grazrug]

Yeah well, if you know Grazrug then you know that all this only makes him want them more. He is also advocating for Gul'dan, Kael and Sylvanas being reinstated as leaders. The more evil the character is the better for his idea of the Horde.

I don't care for Gul'dan. But Sylvanas and Kael were supposed to be the leaders of their factions until they ate the villan bat. That is a pattern with Blizzard. All original race leaders get the shaft.

[Soon-TM]

Baine should have been choked/dropped to death by Nipple Boi - I think that alone would have made him at least *a bit* more sympathetic yet still threatening. The guy is unfixable now: if you keep him sobbing somewhere and longing for Alliance hugs, you don't have a particularly interesting story in your hands, but at least you are consistent. If you try to "fix" him Danuser style, you turn him into a racist moron, completely negating all his hEArT oF tEH H0rDe background, and turning him into even more of a meme, if that was ever possible.

I know, being the moral compass of the game (along with Our Treasure, who's fortunately logged out) is boring to all tears, and it's OK to try to give the character actual flaws - but they have to be believable, not pulled out of Hackuser's overflowing rear. Him being a dick towards the DI centaur, who have jackshit all to do with Kalimdor ones, is just facepalm-worthy. Or are you really angry at someone just because he/she vaguely resembles some jerkass you met twenty years before? And without any scholar/diplomatic/intel report whatsoever? Sweet baby Murloc Jesus...

[Vaedan]

I don't care for Gul'dan. But Sylvaans and Kael were supposed to be the leaders of their factions until they ate the villan bat. That is a pattern with Blizzard. All original race leaders get the shaft.

You might be right with Sylvanas, but Kael was not meant to be a faction leader since blood elves were introduced. He started as a villain right at start of TBC. Lor'themar now leads sin'dorei longer than Kael ever did.