Diablo 4 is bad.

[Ophenia]

Where the fuck are we getting the mount ? I'm trying to enjoy the game at my pace, doing secondary quests and shit, but the walking simulator in mostly empty half boring areas is starting to bore me. And I see level 20 guys on mounts.

Internet tells me "Act IV", but with this non-linear leveling I have no clue, practically, what that means. Nowhere is it clearly indicated when you conclude an Act unless I missed something so I'm lost

Any help ?

[PACOX]

The initial cosmetics in the shop are around 500$ all together.

But I mean, why shouldn't a skin be priced to be 40% of the game itself or as much as some extremely good indie games you could get dozens upon dozens of hours out.... In a more than full price game.... right? Right?

This company man XD

I don't think adding up the total cost of the story is fair, but the price of cosmetics are steep. Wouldn't say they are unheard, but not something I like to see as a gamer. I don't know why people excuse criticism against it. Of course it's up to the consumer to decide if they want to pay the price but people should be allowed to voice their disdain or acceptance.

[Stickiler]

Where the fuck are we getting the mount ? I'm trying to enjoy the game at my pace, doing secondary quests and shit, but the walking simulator in mostly empty half boring areas is starting to bore me. And I see level 20 guys on mounts.

Internet tells me "Act IV", but with this non-linear leveling I have no clue, practically, what that means. Nowhere is it clearly indicated when you conclude an Act unless I missed something so I'm lost

Any help ?

Every main story quest lists which Act it's for, you need to complete Acts 1, 2 and 3 before you can do Act 4, so do nothing but the MSQ if you want the mount quicker.

[Ophenia]

Every main story quest lists which Act it's for, you need to complete Acts 1, 2 and 3 before you can do Act 4, so do nothing but the MSQ if you want the mount quicker.

Ah yes thanks, didn't see in the quest log UI. I'm at Act III, I'll just stop doing shrines/dungeons/caves/secondary quests and focus on that then
Thanks!

[Biomega]

I don't know why people excuse criticism against it.

I assume you mean why people object to other people's criticism against it? Mostly because the vast majority of it isn't "criticism", it's ranting. Saying "this is expensive!" isn't an argument, it's at best an observation. But people use it as though it was some kind of silver-bullet solution that just makes their position valid somehow. That's not how it works.

The core problem I've seen in most "arguments" in this context is that somehow people feel cheated because they're assuming - explicitly or implicitly - that these cosmetics being sold are something that they would otherwise be getting for free. Which is patently absurd. They think that because games in the past didn't have MTX that means they had the same amount of total content as games with MTX, and now that content is being cut out and sold to them as optional extras rather than being included in the box price. Which is also absurd, and not how anything works.

Don't get me wrong, there are many MTX models that are problematic for various reasons, but purely selling cosmetics (or even QoL) is generally not that. You want to pimp out your shit with bling, you can pay to do so - that's no different from any other vanity purchase. But people are somehow conflating things as though Armani was to blame for the fact that people are freezing in the winter because they sell $5,000 coats.

And people also generally ignore and/or downplay the UPSIDE of MTX - namely that by having people who pump money into the game via optional cosmetic MTX, that also creates an incentive for the company to develop more NON-cosmetic content for free. Because that's how the model works: you get people to play and keep playing because they like the game, and then they might wander into your shop and buy the bling, too. That benefits everyone, including the people who DON'T purchase MTX. It creates more content for people even if they don't pay money - whereas without MTX what happens is that after the hype around box sales dries up, the company has very little incentive to actually produce additional content. And so very often they either don't, or do infrequent, low-effort updates. D3 was such a case, and we were lucky to have gotten as much as we did considering it had no revenue model after the RMAH. No one wants a repeat of that. The hardcore D3 players were BEGGING Blizzard to please add a cosmetic shop if that would finance content updates.

But people aren't really interested in that kind of differentiated critique. They just want to be seen by the cool kids as they scream "down with MTX! Blizzard is satan! aw-yeah!" because that's the current populist wave. They're not interested in actually THINKING about the issue.

[PACOX]

I don't have the game but have been watching streams. Looks good for people looking for a casual ARPG experience. Lacks depth compared to a lot of its peers. Choice is good, 5/5s scores are wild. Atmosphere and presentation, great. Gameplay? Diet-ARPG. A lot of people are playing on HC just because the game is fairly simple and very forgiving. Theres definitely space for this game but its not going to push any others out.

[meheez]

Let's not forget the historic perspective, when D2 was a thing there was no WoW or anything cool online-rpg wise. But in 2023? Meh..

[Biomega]

Let's not forget the historic perspective, when D2 was a thing there was no WoW or anything cool online-rpg wise. But in 2023? Meh..

D2 is simultaneously one of the best games ever made, and one of the most overrated games ever made. D2 is a fantastic game, but it's nowhere near as good as the MrLlamas of the world think it is.

Even discounting the fact that to the D2 fans no game will ever measure up, comparisons to D2 will always fall flat in the D4 context because it's a different world we live in. The game is made in a different age, under a different gaming paradigm, for a different audience. There just really is no way to stack those two games up against each other in any fair or meaningful way.

[gondrin]

The initial cosmetics in the shop are around 500$ all together.

But I mean, why shouldn't a skin be priced to be 40% of the game itself or as much as some extremely good indie games you could get dozens upon dozens of hours out.... In a more than full price game.... right? Right?

This company man XD

If it were buffs or boosts, I would understand the outrage. However, skins can cost whatever they want to charge. It is like complaining about designer clothing. Yes, they are overpriced. They also do not affect gameplay in the slightest. If they wanted to charge $300 for a skin, so be it. If someone wants to buy it, so be it. I don't question nor care what others spend their money on as long as it doesn't affect the gameplay aspect of it.

Some people have more money than sense. Let them blow it on whatever they want.

- - - Updated - - -

D2 is simultaneously one of the best games ever made, and one of the most overrated games ever made. D2 is a fantastic game, but it's nowhere near as good as the MrLlamas of the world think it is.

Even discounting the fact that to the D2 fans no game will ever measure up, comparisons to D2 will always fall flat in the D4 context because it's a different world we live in. The game is made in a different age, under a different gaming paradigm, for a different audience. There just really is no way to stack those two games up against each other in any fair or meaningful way.

Compared to other games, D2 is a weak game in a lot of ways. Same as FF7. Too many are blinded by nostalgia.

[Gimlix]

Nothing to do what are you smoking lol, the story in diablo is just to get you to the actual game, it no different than saying WoW has nothing to do, its because you havent even started the actual game yet. Pretty much every single game on the market you can finish the story in a few days, a game is not just its story and diablo is an ARPG the story is just the entry to the actual gameplay.

until you have renown 5 on everything, full anscestral gear, level 100 paragon and fully upgraded glyths, full upgraded and optimised build, and everything else the game has to offer then do talk BS about having nothing to do.

That is why D3 was a ghosttown after 1 month? Because there was so much to do?
D3 at launch era was biggest dissapointment in Diablo's history and took a massive scar to it's title. I'm asking if it's any different that's all.
There was no real reason to repeat paragons when there was nothing else to offer and it was just a lil up in hp and strength for no real reason.

[Arikara]

You obviously have not played the game at all yet with your complete lack of any basic knowledge, builds change depending on what items you have and most players dont have the so called best in slot items yet that, also most players are barely even in the paragon boards that also changes how good a build is by a large margin, there is also class balance as many things will need to be adjusted so even more builds will be available, right now just the best performing builds are going to be used.

D3 didnt fail in the slightest it focused on a large amount of builds capable of clearing high content instead of variety of endgame, D4 has much more variety of endgame activities, D4 has flexible content right now, there are several ways to gear and level up.

Hilarious. I name you as King of Jesters.

Got any more of those grains of wisdom, o sage one?

[gondrin]

I assume you mean why people object to other people's criticism against it? Mostly because the vast majority of it isn't "criticism", it's ranting. Saying "this is expensive!" isn't an argument, it's at best an observation. But people use it as though it was some kind of silver-bullet solution that just makes their position valid somehow. That's not how it works.

The core problem I've seen in most "arguments" in this context is that somehow people feel cheated because they're assuming - explicitly or implicitly - that these cosmetics being sold are something that they would otherwise be getting for free. Which is patently absurd. They think that because games in the past didn't have MTX that means they had the same amount of total content as games with MTX, and now that content is being cut out and sold to them as optional extras rather than being included in the box price. Which is also absurd, and not how anything works.

Don't get me wrong, there are many MTX models that are problematic for various reasons, but purely selling cosmetics (or even QoL) is generally not that. You want to pimp out your shit with bling, you can pay to do so - that's no different from any other vanity purchase. But people are somehow conflating things as though Armani was to blame for the fact that people are freezing in the winter because they sell $5,000 coats.

And people also generally ignore and/or downplay the UPSIDE of MTX - namely that by having people who pump money into the game via optional cosmetic MTX, that also creates an incentive for the company to develop more NON-cosmetic content for free. Because that's how the model works: you get people to play and keep playing because they like the game, and then they might wander into your shop and buy the bling, too. That benefits everyone, including the people who DON'T purchase MTX. It creates more content for people even if they don't pay money - whereas without MTX what happens is that after the hype around box sales dries up, the company has very little incentive to actually produce additional content. And so very often they either don't, or do infrequent, low-effort updates. D3 was such a case, and we were lucky to have gotten as much as we did considering it had no revenue model after the RMAH. No one wants a repeat of that. The hardcore D3 players were BEGGING Blizzard to please add a cosmetic shop if that would finance content updates.

But people aren't really interested in that kind of differentiated critique. They just want to be seen by the cool kids as they scream "down with MTX! Blizzard is satan! aw-yeah!" because that's the current populist wave. They're not interested in actually THINKING about the issue.

MTX has been in games for a VERY long time. Long before Oblivion and their horse armor. And I am not talking about expansions either. Arcade games in the 90s had this stuff(and arcade games were notorious for purposefully making things far harder than they should have been just to make people spend more money). Some of the earliest MMOs that didn't have subs had MTX. Not excusing it but video game companies are out to make money. Some are far more aggressive about it.

If people don't like it, don't play any game with them in it. MTX that is just cosmetics are literally the bottom of the barrel as far as bad MTX goes.

[Sorshen]

Interesting patch, gotta love blizzard making gameplay even clunkier in the name of 'balance'. Did they not get the memo that generator gameplay is the most hated way to play the game? I'm not even playing barb but this kind of tuning qol instead of damage is dumb.

[Ghost of Cow]

I love how many posts in this threads are basically, "D4 sucks because it has [elements typical to ARPGs] in it!"

[Varitok]

I love how many posts in this threads are basically, "D4 sucks because it has [elements typical to ARPGs] in it!"

Just because something is typical to a genre doesn't make it a healthy addition. Loss of EXP and gear loss on death was typical to MMO's before WoW but they weren't healthy for long term game health.

[Fencers]

Where the fuck are we getting the mount ? I'm trying to enjoy the game at my pace, doing secondary quests and shit, but the walking simulator in mostly empty half boring areas is starting to bore me. And I see level 20 guys on mounts.

Internet tells me "Act IV", but with this non-linear leveling I have no clue, practically, what that means. Nowhere is it clearly indicated when you conclude an Act unless I missed something so I'm lost

Any help ?

You have to do all the main quests till you start Act 4.

One of the act 4 quests sends you to the church and you get your mount after talking to the guy. As now you need to run all over rhe fucking place to the finish.

You only really get your horse for the final 3rd of the game story. Things move fast from Act 4 onward.

But this process only has to be done once. New characters will just start with a horse if you wish it.

[HansOlo]

Trash talkers would usually refer to metacritic. It just doesn't suit their agenda.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iv

TBH it exceeds many expections.

[Fencers]

I don't think adding up the total cost of the story is fair, but the price of cosmetics are steep. Wouldn't say they are unheard, but not something I like to see as a gamer. I don't know why people excuse criticism against it. Of course it's up to the consumer to decide if they want to pay the price but people should be allowed to voice their disdain or acceptance.

It's one thing to say you think the price is too high for X or Y. I certainly think the price is too high for many of these cosmetics.

The probelm is a lot of posts are just personal values rants that are aimed at others.

Instead of, "I don't think this skin is worth $25" the post is often, "People are so stupid for paying $25 for a skin! How could you let Blizzard get away with this!!"

And really that is your own personal problem. Not everyone has the same finances or lives the same lifestyle. Naturally so.

But it's both tacky and low class to be shouting at people about what they do with their free time and money because you don't or can't commit either yourself.

I don't shout at other women I see with $6k handbags or $120 for a scarf Both unnecessary cosmetics.

Stuff costs money. Not everything is for everybody. If D4 is too pricey for you, that's fine. You don't need to huff & puff over my scarf*.


*i didn't buy that scarf.

[rhorle]

What are you actually talking about? What does change have to do with choice? The two words are in no way linked. As you level a build, it grows into what it ends up as. If the build functionally never changed from the second you make the character to the moment you hit 100, you're essentially not playing an RPG; more like an FPS in isometric form. Even if you know the step by step process, the act of going through it is the experience, not the fact you didn't make it up as you go.

Okay? None of that applies to Diablo 4 because the build changes as your character progresses. Lmao.

[Ghost of Cow]

Just because something is typical to a genre doesn't make it a healthy addition. Loss of EXP and gear loss on death was typical to MMO's before WoW but they weren't healthy for long term game health.

Yeah, you know that's not what any of the complaints in this thread are.