Diablo 4 is bad.

[beanman12345]

I'm trying to figure out why the dungeons feel like such a slog to me. I'm not looking forward to grinding those out for xp and gear, unlike PoE maps (not a fair comparison) but also unlike Last Epoch monoliths.

First impressions (lvl 50 now) for me is that the game is incredibly atmospheric: visuals, art direction, sound design combined is some of the best I've seen. The first games that come to mind in comparison are Elden Ring and Witcher 3 in terms of overall art excellence.

The campaign was good enough for me, it's not going to win any writer's guild awards but it was better than most stories in most games and especially the final Act was great. The conclusion of the story was a letdown.

Combat is a bit slow but I can live with it. What I can't live with is how much time I have to spend generating resources before I can spend them in 1-2 casts of a spender. It's bad design for an ARPG and disrupts the flow of combat.

Build diversity is not good and itemization is outright bad. The endgame loop looks paper thin and is too much of a reimagining of the D3 endgame. There's something already incredibly stale about Nightmare Dungeons to me. Maybe it's the lack of open layouts, the objectives, the monster density. I can't put my finger on it yet.

If you are 50 and having those kind of resource issues either your build or gear or both suck.

[Ashina]

If you are 50 and having those kind of resource issues either your build or gear or both suck.

Thanks for your contribution. You show me a build that just hit 50, so no glyphs, that manages to keep up with the HOTA resource cost and doesn't rely on builders.

I'll wait.

Fucking 12.000 post count Blizzard simps on this board, smh.

[beanman12345]

Thanks for your contribution. You show me a build that just hit 50, so no glyphs, that manages to keep up with the HOTA resource cost and doesn't rely on builders.

I'll wait.

Fucking 12.000 post count Blizzard simps on this board, smh.

If you need a build, there are plenty of guides, wowhead, maxroll, countless youtubes. But being butthurt and blaming game design or me instead of looking at your own shortcomings in not knowing how to build a character. I'm assuming you are blaming bad game design for your choice in taking unbridled rage, because if you are having those problems without that, than you are truly hopeless.

[Ghost of Cow]

"Hey man, your build might be bad if X isn't working"

"Fucking Blizzard simps"

...ok

[SinR]

"Hey man, your build might be bad if X isn't working"

"Fucking Blizzard simps"

...ok

MMO-C in a nutshell

- - - Updated - - -

"WEH THIS GAME IS SO BAD"

"Have you tried looking up a guide, maybe your bui-"

"FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING BLIZZARD SIMP GET OFF THEIR DICKS"

[Delekii]

I'm trying to figure out why the dungeons feel like such a slog to me. I'm not looking forward to grinding those out for xp and gear, unlike PoE maps (not a fair comparison) but also unlike Last Epoch monoliths.

First impressions (lvl 50 now) for me is that the game is incredibly atmospheric: visuals, art direction, sound design combined is some of the best I've seen. The first games that come to mind in comparison are Elden Ring and Witcher 3 in terms of overall art excellence.

The campaign was good enough for me, it's not going to win any writer's guild awards but it was better than most stories in most games and especially the final Act was great. The conclusion of the story was a letdown.

Combat is a bit slow but I can live with it. What I can't live with is how much time I have to spend generating resources before I can spend them in 1-2 casts of a spender. It's bad design for an ARPG and disrupts the flow of combat.

Build diversity is not good and itemization is outright bad. The endgame loop looks paper thin and is too much of a reimagining of the D3 endgame. There's something already incredibly stale about Nightmare Dungeons to me. Maybe it's the lack of open layouts, the objectives, the monster density. I can't put my finger on it yet.

The dungeons are just insane. Kill every mob as a requirement to move on should not exist, ever, in any game. This was a solved problem in D3, I don't know why they reintroduced it. ARPGs generally function around momentum, which gets entirely killed when you have to run back 10 seconds to kill single mob that was hiding in a corner or ran away. It's just so stupidly not necessary - just count the number of mobs in the area, and require the player to kill 90% of them. 100% is dumb and a needless pain point.

The gameplay felt like treacle for me leveling up to the 50s, it was just shit. All the early legendaries I got were for Werecat and it was not fast. As soon as I got the critical mass of legendaries needed I switched to bear and the game now feels great - I can't die, I do waaay more damage for way less effort, and the gameplay actually feels good.

The idea of putting codexes in dungeons is a good one, it helps to even out the RNG by having a neutered version of many necessary powers available to craft - this is a great design choice that means you can make most builds work to some degree but leaves a lot of room for improvement when drops drop. I feel like it's missed quite a lot of important powers to enable some of the potentially more popular builds, but that's just me.

There are some big, big issues with balance that I can't see a reason for existing. Going back and leveling up a sorc or rogue now having slogged through druid is literally a different game. I don't know why they want people to have their first experience of the leveling process being that bad on some classes, and so ridiculously easy on others.

[Ophenia]

I'm trying to figure out why the dungeons feel like such a slog to me. I'm not looking forward to grinding those out for xp and gear, unlike PoE maps (not a fair comparison) but also unlike Last Epoch monoliths.

Well, dungeons are definitely the lowest point of the game. They're as unenjoyable as they can be, in my case it's the backtracking that sucks, but I also regret the abysmal mob density. Most of the time spent in dungeons is walking. Even when you see objectives such as "kill all enemies", you'd expect a lot, but no, you'll still spend a long time just walking between packs. And if you try to just run through them to zerg 10 packs at once ? Most will have reset or will be bugged against a wall.

That sucks because combat is good, but depending on the class/build, it may only be good after a few seconds if you have to build buffs/resources/whatever. And this doesn't work if you have 10-seconds downtime after each pack.

I'll wait to see higher difficulties dungeons, but so far they're meh and I'm not sure they can be saved tbh. Which is a shame for an endgame activity.

Btw, didn't they say they did something to reduce the backtracking between beta and live ? I don't see any change

[Delekii]

"Hey man, your build might be bad if X isn't working"

"Fucking Blizzard simps"

...ok

He didn't say might be, he said is.. and he's also completely wrong for many classes and builds. So.. /shrug

Have you actually played the game?

Never change, Ghost of Cow, never change.

[beanman12345]

He didn't say might be, he said is.. and he's also completely wrong for many classes and builds. So.. /shrug

Have you actually played the game?

Never change, Ghost of Cow, never change.

Name me these builds and classes that hit one spender before struggling to build resources again at level 50. You won't, cause I'm completely right, and you are, like all your posts, full of shit.

[Kumorii]

The dungeons are just insane. Kill every mob as a requirement to move on should not exist, ever, in any game. This was a solved problem in D3, I don't know why they reintroduced it. ARPGs generally function around momentum, which gets entirely killed when you have to run back 10 seconds to kill single mob that was hiding in a corner or ran away. It's just so stupidly not necessary - just count the number of mobs in the area, and require the player to kill 90% of them. 100% is dumb and a needless pain point.

After the change to those dungeons it's now my favorite. Just because it has more momentum than other dungeons.
It's basically kill 90% now where the strays teleports to you when almost everything is dead.
*shrug*

[Jujudrood]

Well, dungeons are definitely the lowest point of the game. They're as unenjoyable as they can be, in my case it's the backtracking that sucks, but I also regret the abysmal mob density. Most of the time spent in dungeons is walking. Even when you see objectives such as "kill all enemies", you'd expect a lot, but no, you'll still spend a long time just walking between packs. And if you try to just run through them to zerg 10 packs at once ? Most will have reset or will be bugged against a wall.

That sucks because combat is good, but depending on the class/build, it may only be good after a few seconds if you have to build buffs/resources/whatever. And this doesn't work if you have 10-seconds downtime after each pack.

I'll wait to see higher difficulties dungeons, but so far they're meh and I'm not sure they can be saved tbh. Which is a shame for an endgame activity.

Btw, didn't they say they did something to reduce the backtracking between beta and live ? I don't see any change

Yeah, this is my feel on dungeons, and well, the game as a whole.
Mob packs are usually no more than like 5-6 (sometimes can be higher when they have really small/fragile trash mobs), and they are spread too far to really keep up the pace.
Also, in a dungeon or any instanced content really, mobs shouldn't reset/get stuck/etc; they should be able to follow so if you want to pull the entire map, you should be able to without much issue.

At least with the "kill all mobs" thing, they have them teleport to you after while, so that's nice that you don't have to run backwards to find the random one that decided to stare at the wall.

[Ghost of Cow]

He didn't say might be, he said is.. and he's also completely wrong for many classes and builds. So.. /shrug

Have you actually played the game?

Never change, Ghost of Cow, never change.

None of which has anything to do with the weird rage and anger in the reactions around here.

Keep being mad, I guess?

[Fencers]

The dungeons are just insane. Kill every mob as a requirement to move on should not exist, ever, in any game.

They walk or teleport to you if you missed them though.

[Soon-TM]

atmosphere: 0/10 too grimdark
sound: ??/10 every stream i watch has it turned off or is too quiet
graphics: 0/10 i loathe grimdark. d4 looks like its meant to be played on a black and white TV lol

For all of the game's real (or otherwise) flaws, it is supposed to be grimdark ffs. It's !@#$ing Diablo, didn't you play the two first titles? Even the very first act in D2 brings you through the Blood Moor, the abandoned Cathedral, the freaking Monastery... Did that look bright and cheerful to you, by any chance? They certainly weren't fluffy Dragonflight or HotS.

[Gorsameth]

For all of the game's real (or otherwise) flaws, it is supposed to be grimdark ffs. It's !@#$ing Diablo, didn't you play the two first titles? Even the very first act in D2 brings you through the Blood Moor, the abandoned Cathedral, the freaking Monastery... Did that look bright and cheerful to you, by any chance? They certainly weren't fluffy Dragonflight or HotS.

You can have color without being bright and cheerful.

D2 has colour without being a giant blob of grey and brown.


Compared to D4

[Edge-]

You can have color without being bright and cheerful.

D2 has colour without being a giant blob of grey and brown.

Why choose one screen from D2 that happens to have combat and combat effects on a brown blob of a map vs. a static shot of nothing happening in D4 on a white/grey blob of a map?

Game has plenty of color. My fucking sorc just got a bunch of purple armor.

[Gorsameth]

Why choose one screen from D2 that happens to have combat and combat effects on a brown blob of a map vs. a static shot of nothing happening in D4 on a white/grey blob of a map?

Game has plenty of color. My fucking sorc just got a bunch of purple armor.

because it happened to be the first one I grabbed.

Without combat effects the result is still the same. D2 has colour, D4 is grey and brown.

[Ghost of Cow]

MMO-C on D3 release: Why is this so colorful, it's not dark like D2 at all. What a failure.

MMO-C on D4 release: Why is this so dark, it's not colorful like D2 at all. What a failure.

[Soon-TM]

MMO-C on D3 release: Why is this so colorful, it's not dark like D2 at all. What a failure.

MMO-C on D4 release: Why is this so dark, it's not colorful like D2 at all. What a failure.

I know that some folks in MMOC love to RP as uber based people, but you are conflating the opinions of two radically different groups. Unless you want to imply that MMOC is a hive mind where everyone should always be of the same opinions as the rest, no matter the subject at hand or the circumstances. You aren't doing that, are you?

[Gaidax]

MMO-C on D3 release: Why is this so colorful, it's not dark like D2 at all. What a failure.

MMO-C on D4 release: Why is this so dark, it's not colorful like D2 at all. What a failure.

It's MMO-C. Out of 200 or so active posters in this dead forum, a good 1/10 of them are here only to hate on everything and their life.

All this colors and other grasping at straws is practically just a thin veiled "I hate everything Blizzard/D4/new" BS.