Diablo 4 is bad.

[Unholyground]

There's just so many systems missing in the beta to make a proper judgment. There's literally like four item qualities that aren't in the beta most of the classes can't even do their class-based stuff hence why the Druid wasn't feeling super powerful at early levels. Their internal version is much further along since the beta was only version 0.8XXX. Though the people who are complaining about it being like Diablo III, great part is you're not forced to play the game, go play Path of Exile.

[Kumorii]

There's just so many systems missing in the beta to make a proper judgment. There's literally like four item qualities that aren't in the beta most of the classes can't even do their class-based stuff hence why the Druid wasn't feeling super powerful at early levels. Their internal version is much further along since the beta was only version 0.8XXX. Though the people who are complaining about it being like Diablo III, great part is you're not forced to play the game, go play Path of Exile.

four item qualities? I only know of Unique being left out.
Sacred and ancestral items is another 2 but that's just "higher" stats of items afaik. I don't really count those, but maybe those are the ones you mean.

Barb and Druid not being able to have their class stuff unlocked was such a weird move. They could've just made them auto-unlock at 15 if they were gonna be inaccessible during beta.

[casecase89]

-Two button game - click left click to win. There are few buttons to press, there are no skillshots- the gameplay is dull.

-Too simple. Zero challenge, just spam left click to win 95% of the time. You can easily fly in and kill any crowd of mobs already at the lowest levels exept for a few elite packs. The bosses are also not difficult, but fat - click them for 5 minutes to kill. Diablo in D3 was much less fat than any random regular boss in D4

-No sense of progress. Due to scaling, there is no feeling that you are becoming stronger, and because of simplicity, there is no joy that you have leveled up. It’s already easy, why even bother to level up?

-Gear is not interesting to change - stats do not give much, there is no feeling that I have become stronger after i changed piece of gear. It’s not fun to gear up, it’s not fun to level up, it’s not fun to press your buttons. Why endure grind?

In such genres as Diablo, the character capabilities should be limited at the beginning of the game (little mana, inventory space, damage, hp, everything), but you must level up to remove these restrictions by getting new of talent points and gear. This makes this games interesting.Plus, the mobs should destroy you at low levels, but the higher level you are, the stronger, on the contrary, you start to destroy them. This approach should be enjoyable because of the sense of progress.

In Diablo 4, your character is already, from the very beginning, not limited by anything and destroys huge crowds of monsters just with right click (I play as druid, and right-click with a blow of a bear, ONENSHOTS any crowd mobs already at level 5). The character is so strong from the beggining, with the new level it does not become particularly stronger, and due to scaling (feels like) character becomes even weaker.

At the same time, to level up - you should go do quests in the style: the merchant owes me, bring me the gems. Or: I need to feed everyone and bring me 15 ghoul hearts.

At the beggining of the main quest, there was an interesting story about how I was poisoned and how Lilith subdued the villagers, but then the main quests became in the same style: go to that garrison and find out something, now go there find out something…

I see all this and think: WHY DO I PLAY THIS? What is the point? Why should I go get 15 Ghoul Hearts? For what? Why should i even bother leveling up? I am already strong. The plot does not motivate me to do this either. The two-button nobrain gameplay is also not interesting for me and im am not motivated level up to become stronger.

How gameplay in such a game should look like:

If you just fly into a pack of mobs, then you die.

You should have buttons like lifesteal, damage reduction, mass stun, something.

You have to fly into a pack of mobs, press these buttons, survive at the expense of this buttons and kill this pack.

So there is a feeling that you did something to be able to overcome them.

On the early levels, there may not be such buttons, but you should NOT be able to kill packs of mobs at the early levels. Gradually, with the discovery of new abilities, you must master more and more groups of monsters.

In Diablo 4, I have two buttons until level 10 - left click and right click to deal damage. But this is absolutely enough in D4! And I just destroy everything in the game with these two buttons!!! I can kill 40 monsters in a few seconds with only this two buttons. That is rediculus. What for do i level then? Even in D3 i had to get good gear and use all of my abilities to become so strong.

Yes, I see that defensive and utility abilities will appear in talents later. Well, I spent talant points on them at level 11. And now a simple game (where I destroy everything on my way without any challange) has become even easier.

Apparently again, as in a typical modern Blizzard game, fun gameplay will only begin at the maximum level.

And those stairs. The developers are probably directly proud that they came up with a system of shortcuts.

But it’s just ridiculous. What is the point of such a system if it is available to everyone from the very beginning of the game and is marked on the map? What does this system gives besides stealing a couple of seconds to climb down these stairs?

Normally, this system should work like this: these shortcuts should really exist from the beginning of the game and help cut the path, but they should NOT be available to the player to use at the beginning of the game.

Some classes should have abilities that can immediately give them access to these shortcuts.

The other clasees must do some kind of quest that will give them an item that will grant them the ability to use shortcuts. And it is desirable that this quest was not simple. You can make different quests for different types of shortcuts.

Then these shorts will make sense.

I can't be bothered to address every point, point for point, in quotes, and all that.

You played the beta. You didn't play it to level cap. You didn't do side quests. You didn't pay attention to any of it. Don't know what the ghoul hearts were for? Wonder what the quest text, that was read to you, said.

[Zenfoldor]

A few things:

I'm not a fan of Blizzard, Diablo bombing would be hilarious. That said, everyone on here says Diablo 3 sucks too, but I have a really fun time with it every year or two, playing it for maybe 60 to 100 hours at a time. That's all it needs to be. It doesn't need to be a forever game, that's pc mindset. If you want forever game go preorder suicide squad. If it can provide 10 solid hours at the start, it's not getting below an 80 and it shouldn't.

My guess, and look I'm not psychic, this is just based off what I expect, 87-91 average metacritic. Or it could absolutely bomb, but I'm putting in my uncertain prediction either way. I'd rather not be wrong, but not taking a guess out of fear of it, isn't the way.

[chiddie]

This right here is probably enough to keep me from playing D4. I play an mmorpg when I want to play with others.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, that's a good point. I also get frustrated by people saying to not worry about game play in the beta. Beta is for tuning and finding/fixing bugs. Game play is already set by beta, and will not change between beta and launch unless there is sufficient backlash. And even then, if that were to happen, you would see launch get delayed as they would have to take the game back to the drawing board to make that level of change.

Also funny that people think anyone would change if we didn't complain about what we didn't enjoy on the beta. "It's just beta, so don't complain, because they will make it exactly how you want to enjoy it magically on launch day without you providing any feedback".

I didn’t say “it’s a beta don’t worry”, I said “wtf type of gameplay did you expect from a Diablo game”.

This has NOTHING to do with alfa, beta, gamma or delta, it’s the typical Diablolike gameplay. You go around and detonate mobs. If you are expecting someone else, it’s not D4 or whatever Diablolike ARPG’s fault.

I can’t read things like “dude you slay demons it’s so boring” in a D4 thread. It means not having a functional brain.

[unfilteredJW]

ARPGs are all fucking boring at the beginning. Not sure what people expected from the first 1/5th of the game.

[FelPlague]

That was in D3 as well so it's not exactly revolutionary. They did slightly alter how it works but its essentially the same. I'd also add that I expect most players never interact with that feature at all in the beta because we were being showered with so many legendaries.

It is nothing like Diablo 3's. Because this let's you make your own custom legendaries.

[EntertainmentNihilist]

Simple =/= Bad

Simple =/= Easy

Not a million buttons to press =/= No Skill

[Gaidax]

How quickly people have forgotten the Diablo 3 beta, where they ignored the feedback of closed testers and you got killed instantly by everything outside of act 1.

As soon as you reached the canyon with the bees, you knew.

Hahah... yeah that one was a WTF moment for me. Good memories there for sure.

[beanman12345]

Hey if you like the game, that's great. I'm not trying to attack you for liking a game. Play what you wanna play. But people are saying that it's normal for games to be boring for the leveling process. I'm saying that it should not acceptable for a game to have hours of boring.

I wasn't bored when I was leveling characters in D4 this weekend. You are speaking like it being boring is some objective fact. You were bored, because the game isn't for you. I was not bored because this game is for me. You were not bored with those other games, and they seem to be games for you. At some point, many find repetition boring, these games are nothing if not repetitive, and therefore they are just not for everyone. This really isn't complicated.

[Mamut]

I saw some random video with "Everyone hates Diablo 4?" title and I agree with almost every point he made. Like seriously some people forgetting that hardcore gamers are the minority and D4 is not aimed at the PoE hardcore fans.

I'm not the author and Im not trying to give some promotion to the guy but I think its worth to watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmMcDfnJkE

[Aedruid]

I dont know guys, I'm just bummed out that I cant have 30 skeletons or an army of wolves/ravens/bears. I REALLY wanted to main that...

[Ragedaug]

I didn’t say “it’s a beta don’t worry”, I said “wtf type of gameplay did you expect from a Diablo game”.

This has NOTHING to do with alfa, beta, gamma or delta, it’s the typical Diablolike gameplay. You go around and detonate mobs. If you are expecting someone else, it’s not D4 or whatever Diablolike ARPG’s fault.

I can’t read things like “dude you slay demons it’s so boring” in a D4 thread. It means not having a functional brain.

I expect tf type of gameplay I get from every single open beta I've ever played. Which is exactly the same gameplay as the game launches with, only with less bugs and better tuning.

Also I said nothing about slaying demons being boring, so maybe you are once again quoting me but not actually talking to me. /shrug. I dunno.

...also, also, the "don't complain about it, it's just beta" crowd are wrong about 99% of these things they tell us not to complain about in beta because it will be better in launch. Nearly everything we complain about in beta makes it to launch and if we are lucky and complain loud enough, we'll see the thing we complain about get fixed somewhere in the next 3 patches.

......also, also, also, the literal entire purpose of a beta is to elicit feedback, which you call "complaining" and suggest we don't do it.

[LordVargK]

That's the thing, notice how all of them never mention legendary extracting or aspects and how those things are good, because they are not Arpg players they don't do endgame at all

Aspects ALL read incredibly boring. I've read them all and none of them made me think "hey, here's an interesting build I would like to try". They are supportive at best.
Legendary extraction is a nice QoL feature, nothing more. Not having to refarm a legendary is not something I get exited about. On the contrary: I can see that it will be pretty easy to finish your build an thus be done with the game.
And why does it not work like kanais cube? Having an extracted power in your inventory seems like an oudated mechanic. And I don't see a reason for it: Just have a collection where you can choose the power to put on a gear piece, same as with aspects.

[Edge-]

Legendary extraction is a nice QoL feature, nothing more. Not having to refarm a legendary is not something I get exited about. On the contrary: I can see that it will be pretty easy to finish your build an thus be done with the game.

And why does it not work like kanais cube? Having an extracted power in your inventory seems like an oudated mechanic. And I don't see a reason for it: Just have a collection where you can choose the power to put on a gear piece, same as with aspects.

Because they seem to really like this bad band-aide system from D3 so much that they had Netease replicate it in D:I and they think it's a great system in D4 which IMO it absolutely is fucking not. Honestly, there are a lot of head-scratching design decisions here that doesn't need to exist. You can still have meaningful, powerful gear without making your gear what functionally determines your entire-ass character.

[liyroot]

I wasn't bored when I was leveling characters in D4 this weekend. You are speaking like it being boring is some objective fact. You were bored, because the game isn't for you. I was not bored because this game is for me. You were not bored with those other games, and they seem to be games for you. At some point, many find repetition boring, these games are nothing if not repetitive, and therefore they are just not for everyone. This really isn't complicated.

You're 100% right there. It's a terrible game to me. Diablo 4 is the best looking game I have ever seen. Unfortunately the game play is repetitive and braindead. You get 6 key-binds making the game feel more shallow than ever. And the level scaling makes you at lvl 25 feel weaker than a level 2 in the same zone. I don't get what is fun here.

But that's just me. Nothing wrong if the Diablo 4 game loop is fun to you.

[PACOX]

Every Diablo game since 2 has been "bad".

"Bad" because not really, people wish the game catered more to their own personal wants and not the audience Blizzard has cultivated for Diablo or they don't want to acknowledge other ARPGs. Even if they play other ARPGs they have this mindset that "I'm just going to play this until a good Diablo comes out" which hurts their enjoyment of Diablo and the genre.

[marulol]

I dont know guys, I'm just bummed out that I cant have 30 skeletons or an army of wolves/ravens/bears. I REALLY wanted to main that...

I was able to get 13 minions on my necro and that's only at 25

[Morae]

I played the beta mainly to see, if my computer can run it since its getting rather old. Yes, it could run and also very well.

Yet, beta convinced me of another matter too. That is to not buy the game.

D4 looks good and the gameplay is fluid. Thats all it has.

In my opinion d4 has huge core design problems. Its designed that way probably for a reason, but that makes it not a game for me. I wont go into exactly what. If you are interested, you can easily go open reddit or some other place and read the complaints.

And no.. Its not the balancing. All of that will be corrected close enough for me to not care.

I will see the story by watching some streamer do it on release.

Next time I might get interested in d4 will be, if/when its expansion(s) come out. I'll see if those problems have been corrected. My hype is basically dead atm. I tested the game and decided its not for me.

[Ragedaug]

I wasn't bored when I was leveling characters in D4 this weekend. You are speaking like it being boring is some objective fact. You were bored, because the game isn't for you. I was not bored because this game is for me. You were not bored with those other games, and they seem to be games for you. At some point, many find repetition boring, these games are nothing if not repetitive, and therefore they are just not for everyone. This really isn't complicated.

You are the only one making it complicated. Those of us who say it was boring are only speaking for ourselves. I'm sorry if you thought when I said I found it boring that I was saying 'you' found it boring. I was not, in fact, saying anything other than, "it was boring for me". And while being completely subjective, that's a factual statement. So I present the fact to you, that I found the game to be boring to me.

Also, I'm not an idiot. And while I can appreciate that you weren't talking to me, your comments still reference points I have made as well. I found the game boring. Because of that I will not play the game. Because I'm not playing the game, I would be the first to tell you that this game is not for me. Why you think you have to patronize me to explain, "the game isn't for you", is beyond me. Do you really believe that I think a game I find boring, that I won't play, is a game for me?

You say I found it boring because it's not for me, like Blizzard was saying, "should we add things to this game that Ragedaug will like? No, this game isn't for him". OOOH!!! Thanks Beanmann...I found it boring, and had no clue why. I was just mindlessly running around thinking, 'this is boring, but I don't know why', but fortunately you came along to explain exactly why I found it boring, which is because it's not for me! Thanks Beanmann!

You are wrong by the way. I'm not bored because the game isn't for me. It's the other way around. The game isn't for me because I find it boring when I play it.