10 Commandments in Texas Schools

[Doctor Amadeus]

Clearly someone hasn't heard the phrase "It takes a village" when it comes to raising children.

Hahaha no the fuck it doesn't the only people responsible for their children are the parents,.

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You're missing the point. Whether you find it "acceptable" for a public school to prescribe religious principles is completely irrelevant.

Regardless of how important you do or do not find "religious teachings" to be.

Regardless of whether or not "faith-based jobs" exist or not.

Regardless of what parents decide to teach kids at home.

It does not change the fact that the first amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." This is doing exactly that: erecting a monument to a specific faith, with the intent of pushing a specific faith's teachings and edicts, upon the grounds of a public school.



You would have to be equally okay with a state declaring that all public schools must inscribe the seven pillars of Islam above their door frame. And from there what's to stop them from having children pray whilst facing mecca? Or making it mandatory for female students to wear traditional islamic head coverings?

Or that schools go the other direction, and chisel "there is no God or gods" over the lintel, and force every child to renounce any "superstitious beliefs" at least once a day?

Would you be okay with those things? Because those are no different than what you're prescribing should be "okay" within the auspices of what a public school can do in regards to religion. You're just "okay" with the way it is now because it's the one you choose to follow.

I am not for the this initiative. The 10 commandments can be put in private schools. Where the parents agree an elect to do that. As for Public Schools again I don't agree with this.

[Kaleredar]

While I think religions are human-fabricated bollocks, I don't quite agree that they have no place in schools. Whether we like it or not, they have basically always been a thing, and continue to shape humanity. Possibly forever. So yes, it is an important topic to learn about, and should be taught, but only in a very neutral manner, never trying to "sell" any religion as some kind of truth.

I don't think most people have problems with teaching religions as a matter of "this is what this religion says and how it pertains to world history."

What people have a problem with is public institutions teaching children that a certain religion is "the truth." Which is what Texas is trying to do with the 10 commandments, here. A statement saying "this is the religion we the state believe, and this is the religion you need to believe."

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yep, and @Doctor Amadeus responses have repeatedly him rephrasing the fact that he doesn't know what Basic Standards are repeatedly.

Yes I do know what it consist of, your thinking that any religion taught in school is contrary to that is what I totally disagree with. Teaching Children as parents see fit doesn't automatically mean not teaching them basic education.

[Fugus]

I am not for the this initiative. The 10 commandments can be put in private schools. Where the parents agree an elect to do that. As for Public Schools again I don't agree with this.

Except for the part where you said that education and faith should be seen as equal and when it was brought up faith that contradicted actual education you seemed to have no issues with it talking about base standards except for the fact that issuing faith that contradicts actual science, math, and/or biology actually lowers that base standard.

If the want to have the 10 commandments in a Christian school so be it but even that Christian school should always be a school first and church second and the moment education and religion contradict education should win and at no point should they deny the children an education on a topic to protect their religious faith.

[Kaleredar]

Yes I do know what it consist of, your thinking that any religion taught in school is contrary to that is what I totally disagree with. Teaching Children as parents see fit doesn't automatically mean not teaching them basic education.

Literally no one is saying that parents can't teach their children whatever religious principles they see fit.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Except for the part where you said that education and faith should be seen as equal and when it was brought up faith that contradicted actual education you seemed to have no issues with it talking about base standards except for the fact that issuing faith that contradicts actual science, math, and/or biology actually lowers that base standard.

If the want to have the 10 commandments in a Christian school so be it but even that Christian school should always be a school first and church second and the moment education and religion contradict education should win and at no point should they deny the children an education on a topic to protect their religious faith.

Yeah I don’t agree I think both are equally important. Not even willing to have the debate and I don’t support bigotry towards those that feel the same. There shouldn’t be any 10 commandments in public schools and of there should be some restrictions on private schools on any kind but that’s where my agreement ends.

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Literally no one is saying that parents can't teach their children whatever religious principles they see fit.

I’m also not saying the 10 commandments should be in a public school.

[Fugus]

Yes I do know what it consist of, your thinking that any religion taught in school is contrary to that is what I totally disagree with.

Not quite, I think forced religion in school is a bad thing and that no public school should be allowed to show a favorite in it. The teachers can’t do it either.

In public schools, let them be electives where they can choose a class that teaches about multiple faiths in that single elective to allow the kids to learn about all of them and their parents can’t force them into just a single one or expect it to indoctrinate them while in a private school that goes for 1 religion they can go for that but they be a school first and foremost and the moment the church and school conflict the school wins.

Teaching Children as parents see fit doesn't automatically mean not teaching them basic education.

For many parents it does and part of the reason why they had to create those standards was because many parents have proven themselves unfit to decide that for themselves.

We have had parents who don’t want their kids learning about sex even at 17 when they are already having sex but unprepared because their parents never wanted to talk about it and was hoping they just wouldn’t learn about it.

We have parents who don’t want their kids learning about geography because they are flat earthers.

We have parents who don’t want to learn biology because they think vaccines cause autism or that medical science is a lie and prayer is all they need to heal from any illness and kids have died from this.

We have parents all over the south who don’t want their kids learning about the civil war because it shows their personal heroes to be the villains of history let alone anything that’s happened since.

We have countless examples of why parents shouldn’t have full control over what the schools teach their kids.

Edit: that’s not even getting into evolution.

That is science, biology, history, and geography that they don’t want taught off the top of my head.

[Dontrike]

Hahaha no the fuck it doesn't the only people responsible for their children are the parents,.

Oh boy is that all sorts of wrong. The idea that only the parents are solely responsible for their children is incredibly ignorant as to how children are raised. While decisions are up to parents literally every single person that a child comes in contact with on a regular basis helps raise a child, that's the point of the saying. How you don't get that shows that your parents didn't do well by you.



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While I think religions are human-fabricated bollocks, I don't quite agree that they have no place in schools. Whether we like it or not, they have basically always been a thing, and continue to shape humanity. Possibly forever. So yes, it is an important topic to learn about, and should be taught, but only in a very neutral manner, never trying to "sell" any religion as some kind of truth.

A theology course is one thing, where you learn about multiple religions, what they're about, and how often they touch children, but that's not what's happening here. They are strictly inserting religion into the school, which is a big ol' "fuck that" and shouldn't be allowed.

[s_bushido]

Kids aren't your damn property.

Unfortunately, that is not the mentality of much of American conservatism... As evidenced recently by the laws they're passing (or trying to pass) to expand their ability to control the lives of their children. Especially when it comes to LGBTQ kids.

[Shadowferal]

While I think religions are human-fabricated bollocks, I don't quite agree that they have no place in schools. Whether we like it or not, they have basically always been a thing, and continue to shape humanity. Possibly forever. So yes, it is an important topic to learn about, and should be taught, but only in a very neutral manner, never trying to "sell" any religion as some kind of truth.

I agree.
The catholic school I went to did just that through social studies and history and made me forever curious about different beliefs (and my own later deep dive into the history of the Catholic church turned me permanently off)

[s_bushido]

I guess I just don't understand how people think religion in school is educational.

Religion is SUBJECTIVE. Math is OBJECTIVE. There is no subjective scenario where 2+2=5.

uh...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is why:



But religion in school can be educational. It's called comparative religion. But that's more along the lines of educating people about different cultures...which is something the types who propose these dumbass laws absolutely do not want to happen.

[Nymrohd]

The rights of the children should always supersede the rights of their parents imo. And children have a right to a standard of education. If as a parent you want your kids to learn the tenets of a specific religion, well that religion should set up some form of religious school for them.

The only type of religion that should be taught at school is comparative religion and/or history of religion. Heck religious morality has NO place at school since by its nature it is metaphysical morality (well I guess the Tao actually does present actual deontological arguments for its tenets but that is an extreme rarity).

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not quite, I think forced religion in school is a bad thing and that no public school should be allowed to show a favorite in it. The teachers can’t do it either.

In public schools, let them be electives where they can choose a class that teaches about multiple faiths in that single elective to allow the kids to learn about all of them and their parents can’t force them into just a single one or expect it to indoctrinate them while in a private school that goes for 1 religion they can go for that but they be a school first and foremost and the moment the church and school conflict the school wins.



For many parents it does and part of the reason why they had to create those standards was because many parents have proven themselves unfit to decide that for themselves.

We have had parents who don’t want their kids learning about sex even at 17 when they are already having sex but unprepared because their parents never wanted to talk about it and was hoping they just wouldn’t learn about it.

We have parents who don’t want their kids learning about geography because they are flat earthers.

We have parents who don’t want to learn biology because they think vaccines cause autism or that medical science is a lie and prayer is all they need to heal from any illness and kids have died from this.

We have parents all over the south who don’t want their kids learning about the civil war because it shows their personal heroes to be the villains of history let alone anything that’s happened since.

We have countless examples of why parents shouldn’t have full control over what the schools teach their kids.

Edit: that’s not even getting into evolution.

That is science, biology, history, and geography that they don’t want taught off the top of my head.

Yeah we’re just never going to agree on this. Parents made their children and unless what they are doing is objectively harmful then. It’s not up for debate. I’ll continue to support parents on that.

Not this in the OP. The 10 commandments isn’t offensive at all to me but I respect the rights of parents who don’t want it there.

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Do you have kids?

Kids aren't your damn property. Your responsibility as a parent is to prepare them for society. Not make a duplicate of yourself. If they break a law as a child in your custody, yes you're responsible. But that's about it. Them becoming Christians or not is not your responsibility. It's certainly not the state's responsibility.

Let them make up their own damn mind, and give them all the tools that schools CURRENTLY provide, which is intended to make them function in society.

Anecdotal:
I'm an atheist and have been since I was in late middle school, precisely because my mother wanted me to learn about how society works, how things work, so that I could do things. She's a devout Christian. She's my hero. My wife is Christian, I am not. I do not talk to my kids about religion, and neither does she. Cause it's none of our goddamn business whether our kids become Christians too.

In an effort find an amicable situation with you, I don't have a problem if you teach your kids Christianity. But my kids? At the school our kids both go to? Not your damn business. If schools put up the 10 commandments, which inevitably leads to proselytization, you just usurped my kids' rights with yours. If my kids want to go to church to learn about God, it's not my place to tell them yes or no(unless they're toddlers, that's just weird).

Like someone else said in the thread, these commandments bills are NOT meant to teach the words in it. It's iconography, not education.

Yes me and my wife they are ours not yours and you don’t get a vote nor should you. Nor should society at large.

Unless or until they are in objective danger. Which doesn’t include what you think they shouldn’t learn concerning faith or anything else.

The 10 commandments shouldn’t be in public schools because parents of those kids of other faiths or none say so.

[Dontrike]

Yeah we’re just never going to agree on this. Parents made their children and unless what they are doing is objectively harmful then. It’s not up for debate. I’ll continue to support parents on that.

Harm comes in many forms and not all of it is physical, and even if there's no harm being done parents don't always know what's best for their child, which is why wisdom, knowledge, and advice from others comes into play. You know, like a village helps to raise them. You don't get it, do you?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Harm comes in many forms and not all of it is physical, and even if there's no harm being done parents don't always know what's best for their child, which is why wisdom, knowledge, and advice from others comes into play. You know, like a village helps to raise them. You don't get it, do you?

No the fuck you don’t.

Raise your kids. Mine are my and my wife’s responsibility not yours.

As a society as long as children are required and have access to to a basic education that’s where my concern for children other than mine ends.

The only exception being actual harm. Kids learn about all kinds of things they have the right to reject when they become adults.

But this bullshit about a village raising anyone’s kids. Lol fuck no.

I’ll take a kid provided structure and love. Over some bullshit any random in society thinks is good for anyone else. Nah fuck that.

[PosPosPos]

Yes me and my wife they are ours not yours and you don’t get a vote nor should you. Nor should society at large.

You really got that "mother knows best" energy going right there. The same kind of hubris and ego of certain parents who justify their abuse of their own children.

Although it's not really surprising given your other antisocial responses in the other threads.

The only exception being actual harm.

Also not surprising for abusers to constantly redraw the lines and shift goalposts for what justifies abuse.

[Nymrohd]

The only exception being actual harm.

Lovely. Who gets to define what is harm?

[Mekh]

Lovely. Who gets to define what is harm?

A black eye will heal. He is talking only permanent damage.

[Dontrike]

No the fuck you don’t.

Raise your kids. Mine are my and my wife’s responsibility not yours.

Wow....you really don't get that phrase or how others impact your kids. It's honestly baffling how you're that ignorant to the world around you and how someone is raised. Did you only have your parents in your life and no one else that gave you advice? Seriously?

At this point I can't tell if it's blind ignorance or willful ignorance on your part, and considering the shit you've said in the past I'm betting on the later.

But this bullshit about a village raising anyone’s kids. Lol fuck no.

I’ll take a kid provided structure and love. Over some bullshit any random in society thinks is good for anyone else. Nah fuck that.

I see it goes past willful ignorance and lands straight into purposeful ignorance. I find it hard to believe that both you and your children had no other adult/people in their lives besides your/their parents, and I feel sorry for you and them if that's the case.

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Lovely. Who gets to define what is harm?

The church, of course, those commandments don't say kid diddling is wrong, so that means it's not harm.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Wow....you really don't get that phrase or how others impact your kids. It's honestly baffling how you're that ignorant to the world around you and how someone is raised. Did you only have your parents in your life and no one else that gave you advice? Seriously?

At this point I can't tell if it's blind ignorance or willful ignorance on your part, and considering the shit you've said in the past I'm betting on the later.



I see it goes past willful ignorance and lands straight into purposeful ignorance. I find it hard to believe that both you and your children had no other adult/people in their lives besides your/their parents, and I feel sorry for you and them if that's the case.

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The church, of course, those commandments don't say kid diddling is wrong, so that means it's not harm.

It takes a village is nonsense. It takes two responsible parents with good sense and structure to raise a child.

Been going on for a few thousand years. I’m sure it will continue to go on just fine without silly nonsense from randoms.