DF spell rotation too bloated?

[Geckoo]

The new talent system has meant a lot of button bloat for many specs. Don't get me wrong, i really like the new system, but i think that they should try to use more modern solutions for certain things to avoid adding more abilties or more CD's if possible.

I believe that a talent that morphs or enhances a main CD is better than a talent that adds a new CD.
Likewise a talent that changes a rotation by replacing one existing ability or the interactions between abilities is better than adding more abilities.

I'm not saying that there is no room for adding more buttons to a rotation but this should require some consistency across the game and right now there is a lot of disparity, specs with short rotations performing great, specs that have a bunch of buttons to press and stuff to track barely being competitive; specs having to choose between aoe or single target and specs that have enough tools to perform really well in both areas with no changes.

What i'm saying is that for the new talent system to work for more than one expansion, they'll have streamline a lot of rotations in the future and start using smarter solutions to give diverse gameplay choices that are able to capture what makes those specs fun without having to reach that point by adding more and more stuff.

[Soikona]

I main ret, and the ability bloat was real for abilities pressed often. Now with the rework, it’s a lot better. Similar amount of abilities, but not as frequently pressed. Other classes should take a similar approach imo

[Huzzaa]

I played BM over a month ago for about a month.

Totall appreciate the rotation there. Simple.

Went and tried the paladin I used to main for years... and well, naaa.

A lot of the sentiments I share. While the new talent system is okay I guess, I cba with the buttons. And I still think that literally, the classic trees, were better.. period.
I know you cant advertise an age old system as a feature but tough luck. You go back to that, and I think in many aspects, you're golden.

And no I don't mean the Cata/MoP one, but the one from actual classic times.

The character level is currently reasonable as in managable to make a tree again, point per level.
This every spec has its class spec and specialty spec thing for me seems unnecessary. Just give me a spec tree and leave out the rest. Don't give me too much choice, it's also a problem!

A lot of folks here tell you over and over, that half the stuff in the trees is just meaningless and could use a prune. The abilities that are specifically the types that add 2% more total dps had you not taken it are the ones I'm complaining about, or something similar to it. They could've been vowen into the class or into a talent point somewhere along a general tree.

[crusadernero]

One of the worst things blizz did to wow was ability pruning.
Reduced its RPG aspect, made its classes less complex than hack&slash titles.

Primary reason why i stopped playing retail wow is that the classes got so boring it made all forms of content boring.

Great, then DF is the xpac for you!

- - - Updated - - -

I played BM over a month ago for about a month.

Totall appreciate the rotation there. Simple.

Went and tried the paladin I used to main for years... and well, naaa.

A lot of the sentiments I share. While the new talent system is okay I guess, I cba with the buttons. And I still think that literally, the classic trees, were better.. period.
I know you cant advertise an age old system as a feature but tough luck. You go back to that, and I think in many aspects, you're golden.

And no I don't mean the Cata/MoP one, but the one from actual classic times.

The character level is currently reasonable as in managable to make a tree again, point per level.
This every spec has its class spec and specialty spec thing for me seems unnecessary. Just give me a spec tree and leave out the rest. Don't give me too much choice, it's also a problem!

A lot of folks here tell you over and over, that half the stuff in the trees is just meaningless and could use a prune. The abilities that are specifically the types that add 2% more total dps had you not taken it are the ones I'm complaining about, or something similar to it. They could've been vowen into the class or into a talent point somewhere along a general tree.

The funny thing about classic talents and builds, is that in the end most classes & specs played fairly (or very) easy anyway. It never was about hitting 10+ buttons, it was never complex rotations, it was never quick-paced action combat and chaining together alot of spells. Even so, all the classes did have alot of buttons and abilities to click if you wanted too. Look at mages in classic. Click frostbolt 1 million times in a raid - you win. But mages got alot of abilities to go along with it.

It was alot of talents to pick from, but the gameplay never really changed a whole lot for the most part.

It was about the illuison, feeling and sense of choices while in the end it didnt really matter all that much.

BTW - I really like the classic talent trees and I do like the direction on retail with DF.

[Urti]

It is a very tricky line apparently, between engaging and bloated. You add too much and people are swimming in buttons, especially on alts they might only play occasionally. You cut too much and you dumb down the rotation to the point of boring "press A to win" memes.

I mainly play BM Hunter, Fury Warrior, and Balance drood. I feel like somewhere between 5-8 abilities is the sweet spot for me. Maybe with some out of combat or gimmick abilities to spice things up a bit now and then.

[Palapop]

I guess it depends on the class and spec and I must agree that sadly Elem is notorious for this and one of the reasons I shelved my shammy for now. My BM hunter and Arms warrior is having a lot more fun thankfully and allow me to move things around with less of a handicap.



For me personally I find it better to find a setup I like to play instead of the simmed meta, as playing something I find fun usually means I can dish out good numbers even with what many would consider a subpar setup. Flow is important for me. If a spec setup feels clunky but is considered the best I will alter it until I find it less clunky, and yes it might result in a loss but so be it. But this is different for everyone so not going to argue against it.

Yep. I get what you mean. And I fully agree with you.

But sadly, in some cases, you can't go for "what you like". Unless you want to raid normal/play random bgs at most.

[Nymrohd]

It is a very tricky line apparently, between engaging and bloated. You add too much and people are swimming in buttons, especially on alts they might only play occasionally. You cut too much and you dumb down the rotation to the point of boring "press A to win" memes.

I mainly play BM Hunter, Fury Warrior, and Balance drood. I feel like somewhere between 5-8 abilities is the sweet spot for me. Maybe with some out of combat or gimmick abilities to spice things up a bit now and then.

I think the issue is that at least some specs lack strong passive talents and/or the delta between more keybind builds and simpler builds is too significant. I love BrM it is my second favourite tank after Paladin but this xpac . . .ooof. Too many keybinds. And it's not like the spec ever lacked complexity.

[LordVargK]

Oh making the button light up was always enough for me tbh. Heck I mostly make WAs to force buttons to light up in general.
But I have a lot of real estate due to playing on widescreen.

It's not quite enough. Seeing that DC proced is not the issue imo, it's that you want to know how many stacks that proc has. Because you ideally want to never overcap on procs but also save some procs for movement. You then want to spend all but 1 proc before your dreadstalkers expire (which also needs tracking for that reason). And of course you want to spend all procs before an implosion.

[czarek]

I do like Dragonflight so far, but with the redone talent tree came newer spell rotations.

And I play a variety of classes and specs and almost all of them in DF have overly complicated rotations now. Well "complicated" isn't the word, but just way too many spells to click and pay attention too.

Most my classes used to get by with like a 4 to 6 spell rotation, now its 8 to 10 spells.

Demon Hunter used to be a simple 3 or 4 spell rotation, now its way more.

Or the 45 sec or 60 sec spells you use rarely but now nedd to be a part of your core rotation.

And for what? Why do this Blizzard?

As i remember rotation works like this for a years already. Some classes more some less. I was suprised how is easy to play monk, hunter or dh after switching from shadow priest in shadowlands lolz. In general rotations should be more simple tbh. Long CDs should be ultimates not just use when available.

[Powerogue]

If you can’t keep up with your class change your talents and take less buttons that’s the good thing about the new talent system.

Can confirm. In my experience it's better to have less abilities and more passive talents than a BIS build with abilities you can't remember to use properly.

[Dejiko]

Playing a shadow oriented Disc Priest feels genuinely awful with the number of buttons to consider.
I would greatly welcome fewer spells and a shorter talent tree, though with more impactful choices.
I think Cata had some amazing talent trees. Just needed fewer bonuses to spells and more uniqueness to them.

[MjH]

Playing a shadow oriented Disc Priest feels genuinely awful with the number of buttons to consider.
I would greatly welcome fewer spells and a shorter talent tree, though with more impactful choices.
I think Cata had some amazing talent trees. Just needed fewer bonuses to spells and more uniqueness to them.

Yup I'd love to go back to my Priest but I just can't. All of S1 was enough for me. Disc just has way toooo many cd/spells to make it fun. Throw in the fight knowledge you need for ramps and stuff and its just a drag imo.

[Dalinos]

One of the worst things blizz did to wow was ability pruning.
Reduced its RPG aspect, made its classes less complex than hack&slash titles.

Primary reason why i stopped playing retail wow is that the classes got so boring it made all forms of content boring.

As opposed to lets say, Classic, where 40% of your damage as a warrior/rogue came from auto-attacks, and if you played Warlock/Mage you were stuck spamming Frostbolt and Shadowbolt for 2 years straight?

People asked for the flavour back, and we got it. We got oldschool Windfury totem again, we got decent paladin auras, Druids got Mark of the Wild back, buffs are stronger than ever before (what with being % based instead of flat values). What we didn't get back is fucking Anticipation rogue talent, which was 5 points for 5% dodge, or warrior Cruelty, which was 5 points for 5% crit.

In Dragonflight as a bear tank I have more spec layouts than ever in my 19year long wow career.