Are the new Warlock race options a lore problem?

[Tolinn]

I've watched this thread grow over the course of a few days and I'm always surprised as how invested people are in lore that is pretty superficial and has been more or less since the start.

Like... what was the actual story of Vanilla? What felt like the biggest parts of the story were in the raids. So either Zul'gurub, Ahn'qiraj, Blackrock or Naxx. They're all focusing on a small thing that a faction is making big for x/y/z reason. Dark Iron dwarves summoning the fire lord, Gurubashi summoning Hakkar, Cthun trying to take over Azeroth. Kel'thuzad taking stuff over.

It's not some grand, interesting motivation really. It's nearly always bad guy does bad thing because bad. The only difference is that each expansion does it over the course of the whole expansion, not in small bits that are countering each other (for the most part. I know there were some opposing bits like Firelands in Cata).

So in terms of following/forsaking lore, I personally see it as highly likely that each faction, even the bright shiny factions like the draenei/lightforged would have the odd person who goes "hmm, that seems like a good avenue to help my people, sure let's go."

As much as I enjoy the story put down in WoW, it's not exactly high-brow, super in depth stuff like Lord of the Rings or ASOIAF. It's the fantasy equivalent of Marvel. We watch a cool guy do a cool thing against a bad guy doing a bad thing, and I'm here for it. And if that means I also get to play something like a lightforged draenei who weirdly loves demons, then I'm in. That's also my primary reason for loving D&D. It allows for daft combos that you warp and twist to make fit.

There's the odd nuanced bit of storytelling here and there, and I love those moments too, but when push comes to shove, WoW lore is extremely broad and it will probably be that way forever because it's much easier to sell a story of big bag guy shouting "You are not prepared" than it is to do a 30-quest chain of a lightforged draenei questioning his identity to become a warlock before you've even started the character, especially when it's a small fragment of an entire pool of choices that won't get picked that often.

[Shadowferal]

I've watched this thread grow over the course of a few days and I'm always surprised as how invested people are in lore that is pretty superficial and has been more or less since the start.

Hmf...maybe because there's still enough people that demand that lore be more than superficial. Tbh, In the face of apparent Blizz indifference, I'd say that's a shrinking minority.

[VinceVega]

And that's how that is today. Would you encourage others to not care about the story and lore? Perhaps the Lore forum shouldn't even exist since "no one cares about it."

Lore is fun when its good but it doesn't matter much in the long run for an MMO when you finsih the story in a day or two and just repeat content for months.
What Aucald said is true. Many if not most players don't care about small lore problems or the lore at all.
Not liking the story is not a lore problem btw. It's like not liking a movie. You are allowed to. But others are allowed to like it anyway. And if some stuff does not make sense... well... most people will never notice and would not have if not a few people run in circles screaming it does not make sense and the whole game is the worst thing since hitler. And then for some reaosn still play and engange with the community anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmf...maybe because there's still enough people that demand that lore be more than superficial. Tbh, In the face of apparent Blizz indifference, I'd say that's a shrinking minority.

Wow lore has always been superficial. It was never deep and will never be deep.

[Ameonna]

Why do i need to read your previous messages when you quoted me? i only read what you quoted me for.

Because i NEVER quoted you about the combos of race/classe i quoted you about the fact you say it made sense for night elves to go to the alliance..which you still dont get.

And no it will not mess up potential allied races, that is a non-argument, no race is tied exclusively by the class they can be.

Well, i am argueing that i am afraid that IF Blizzard gives man'ari cusromization to draenai warlocks, then it will prevent a proper man'ari allied race to exist, thats all i was argueing about here.

If they have skirmishess there is no peace, it cannot coexist, simple as that, it is cease fire, Thrall is just delusional.

What you have an issue with is, to make the difference between, what you think is logicial and what the lore says, the Lore says that there was peace, it litteraly said so back in vanilla, in the quest here : https://www.wowhead.com/classic/ques...gdoms#comments

When you speak with Thrall is says what i said, he says there is peace but some skirmishes there and there, no matter what your definition of peace is, it dont matter because it is a statement that is used in that quest, in the chronnicles books and in other parts of lore. Therefore, it is THE LORE and no matter your definition of peace is, its not said anywhere there is a cesse-fire, you will need to give me a statement that it says "cesse-fire" or "no peace" from vanilla.

The fact the statement not makes sense is not the point, you try to claim there is a war, but the lore dont say so.

And you know what will make money? all classes to all races, lmao

No i am not, less restrictions and making players having more freedome will attract more players thats a fact.

Dude, i clearly know more about lore than you do when its about orcs, you do not get to lecture me.

The red eyes is due to demonic corruption, because even rocs who did not drink the blood became green, bigger and had red eyes

But the thing is, you argue that (and i will answer to the other statement you made below in other post here) that the blood did not do these effects, therefore you also quote my wowpedia page which says "even orcs who did not drink the blood got these effects" the thing is, the blood is fel goo as you mentioned. Therefore drinking the blood or being with fel too much does the same effects, there i am not wrong to claim the blood do this. I dont get why you are argueing agaisnt me there, the blood did it, the fel did it, both are fel so both do the effecvts, so we both right. I really dont understand why you are argueing on now, the fact the blood gave these effect (even if it also gave to ppl not drinking it) is a fact and you try to go agaisnt it.

So you are teling me they are bad writters

What i am telling is that, pulling out History as an arguement is NEVER gonna work.

??? im talking about the recent one??? lmao

What is this having anything to do with Vanilla context and Night elves Joining the Alliance?

oooooooh, so you are telling me people don't change their mindset so easily....

but you are DEFENDING THEY CHANGING THEIR MINDSET TO ACCEPT PEACE in less than 2 years

In both cases it is stupid, but you too you contradict yourself then, since you defend they change mindset by going in alliance, but you defend they dont change by not making peace....so you too you are doing just like me.

Its hard to believe a race who almost got destroyed by the legion, to unite with the alliance, as in an alliance of equals, is less likely to happen than a race to join hands with the faction who genocide them for no reason at all.... ok

The Horde did not genocide the night elves in war3 why do you talk about BFA when we talking about post war3 events? You make no sense at all.

Anad yeah right, the night elves suffered so much they could build a freeking tree with a dam capital in less than 3y, that clearly what ppl who suffered a lot of loss do...

You think an island is enough to provide wood and FOOD for everyone in orgrimmar? how smalll you think this world is?

There is logistics, distance and resource management, its easier and safer to get stuff from ashenvale because they already have a base there and its quickly access with a easier route, azshara until cata was swarmed by the legion and wild elementals.

The warsong were already set in war3, they would not leave just because.

Because Azshara condition changed prior to Cata when the goblins arrived? No it did not, it was the same, the Horde could have taken over it anytime. But you keep tyring to argue that there is no other place than Ashenvale to take the lumbers, even if there is also Mulgore, Echo islands are much MUCH bigger in reality than in game, thats the point, you argue i live in a small world, but did you see echo islands in war3? Its clearly possible to get lumber here.

And you also have dustwallow too btw wich is under ogre control, actually there is so many other way than to piss off night elves that it makes no dam sense for Thrall to keep cutting lumbbers there, only reason is "its in war3!"

ITs such a naive way of thinking, lmao

Well, no its not naive, i am from this part of the world and i have my surronding thinking like i said, but who you are to talk anyway about the ongoing situation, you are surely safe and sound!

We literally saw multiple undeads breaking free from the lich king, we already had precedence of this happening, you are making no sense and you did not prove a thing.

Who are the undead you saw break free? The forsaken i just mentioned before that asked a great deals of event?

mate how can you paly since 2004 and not know the questchain from the deathknights? it literally shows the Lich king weaker and thats how the death knights were able to break free, read before trying to lecture others.

Because you are wrong? The Lich King was owning everyone when he came, he was able to beat Tirion, and other its just because Darion gave the ashrbinger AFTER he broke free that the Lich King was defeated. Just before that the Lich King is totally in control of the fight, just because Tirion made some mind trick or something to Darion by showing him vision of his father....

I have NO idea how you can say the Lich King was weakened or something its just never said anywhere in wrath.

Its quite tire when you are claiming others statements are dumb when you lack knoledge of the lore itself.

You completely forgot that, at that time, stormwind did support the alliance of lordaeron, you forget that stormwind did not say anything about kalethas and their kind being imprisoned and sentenced to death, you forget that after what garithos did stormwind gave two shits about the blood elves later, and instead, send spies on then and saboteurs to destroy their reserve of mana.

The Alliance of Lordaeron was disbanded at the end of war2 you should know this, therefore, Stormwind humans were NOT in Lordaeron in war3 they were nowhere to be found, they were rebuilding their city, they did not support or go agaisnt the actions of Garithos who was btw just some Lordaeron noble that was litteraly in the other side of the continenat so how can you claim the humans of Stormwind had any hands in that matter?

Wait what? Since when the Alliance of Stormwind sent spies and sabotaged mana? Ha yes...TBC when the choice of making them Horde was already taken...

the elves hate the AMANI, they did not care about the jungle trolls, and the humans did more harm to then than the jungle trolls.

No they hates all trolls, end of the story, you dont know elf lore...you really think they are going to make the difference between jungle and forst trolls? HO and btw, there is these trolls in the Horde : https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Revantusk_tribe

Litteraly one of the tribes who was part of the Amani empire and followed Zul'jin, you know? The mortal enemy of the high/blood elves that the orcs did free and helped.

Literaly leaded by their ranger general, something behind only their own king, who died protecting then, and came back from the death to save then again

and you think they would follow the humans

And did you see how that same ranger general treated them? And again, you are being inconsistent here, you argue since earlier about the ppl not being caring about the leader of a faction but about its people, who are undead and maybe even in these undeads you have ones who did attack Quel'Thalas, but you use the arguement of "their leader is an ancient elf" to justify them joing horde but earlier you refuse the arguement of "the night elves are not alble of seeing that only the warchief sylvanas was responsible in the burning of teldrasil" you make just no sense...

I mean, it is, if you have at least 2 brain cells.

Its not...but all you doing in your arguements are to contradict yourself i think you have more than 2 brain cells indead...3 maybe?

All mana'ri are evil, period, they are demons. It does not matter if they were turned against their will, once you are bound into the twisting nether you are an evil demons

Ho yeah, they are demons so they are evil, i think its just like the orcs, they are orcs so they are evil, or like the undeads, all undeads are evil right?

Also you want a demon who are not evil? Illidan? Demon hunters? Illidari demons? Ho boy they are so evil!! Ho wait, they helped defeat other demons!!!!!

..you want to say the demons are the heroes now? haha

Hum....yes? Not like there is anyone else in the Lore who did fight the Void in a cosmic scales that they did?

- - - Updated - - -

I've watched this thread grow over the course of a few days and I'm always surprised as how invested people are in lore that is pretty superficial and has been more or less since the start.

Like... what was the actual story of Vanilla? What felt like the biggest parts of the story were in the raids. So either Zul'gurub, Ahn'qiraj, Blackrock or Naxx. They're all focusing on a small thing that a faction is making big for x/y/z reason. Dark Iron dwarves summoning the fire lord, Gurubashi summoning Hakkar, Cthun trying to take over Azeroth. Kel'thuzad taking stuff over.

It's not some grand, interesting motivation really. It's nearly always bad guy does bad thing because bad. The only difference is that each expansion does it over the course of the whole expansion, not in small bits that are countering each other (for the most part. I know there were some opposing bits like Firelands in Cata).

So in terms of following/forsaking lore, I personally see it as highly likely that each faction, even the bright shiny factions like the draenei/lightforged would have the odd person who goes "hmm, that seems like a good avenue to help my people, sure let's go."

As much as I enjoy the story put down in WoW, it's not exactly high-brow, super in depth stuff like Lord of the Rings or ASOIAF. It's the fantasy equivalent of Marvel. We watch a cool guy do a cool thing against a bad guy doing a bad thing, and I'm here for it. And if that means I also get to play something like a lightforged draenei who weirdly loves demons, then I'm in. That's also my primary reason for loving D&D. It allows for daft combos that you warp and twist to make fit.

There's the odd nuanced bit of storytelling here and there, and I love those moments too, but when push comes to shove, WoW lore is extremely broad and it will probably be that way forever because it's much easier to sell a story of big bag guy shouting "You are not prepared" than it is to do a 30-quest chain of a lightforged draenei questioning his identity to become a warlock before you've even started the character, especially when it's a small fragment of an entire pool of choices that won't get picked that often.

Vanilla tbc and wolk suffer the same big issues, it is that you have patch and each patch its a chapter (because of mmo format) and its always "bad guy spawn and good guy stop it" it is why chronnicles v3 whn you read the part about vanilla tbc and wrath the quality of writting go down the hole...

- - - Updated - - -

Wow lore has always been superficial. It was never deep and will never be deep.

Yup; so now give me my playable nagas and demons! Because all that matter is to have fun!

[Irian]

They've been fighting the Legion for thousands of years explicitly BECAUSE one of them had the idea to use shadow magic and demon binding rituals.
I can't imagine the rest of them, especially the Naaru they revere were particularly open to the idea of trying it again.

Thal'kiel was the first eredar to use ritualistic binding magic (that we know of, anyway) and he never willingly served demons. Shadow and fel magic doesn't just naturally make you an evil demon pawn when you use it, the problem came when Kil'jaeden actually bargained with Sargeras.

And sure they might be seen as kind of adjacent (getting close to a fire gets you burned and such...) if you're fighting an overwhelming evil that dwarfs you in size and power, hearing that there's magic that binds and controls your opponents is pretty appealing.

[Khaza-R]

So in terms of following/forsaking lore, I personally see it as highly likely that each faction, even the bright shiny factions like the draenei/lightforged would have the odd person who goes "hmm, that seems like a good avenue to help my people, sure let's go."

Important to remember they have shifted their design intention on the background of the player character. In vanilla through cataclysm your character's background was very fixed. You were an adventurer but you came from a specific stock and were meant to represent your racial faction (i.e. Gnomeregan Exiles)

Since Shadowlands, they changed that. Now they want your character's background to be open ended and up to the player to decide. You can see this strongly with how they changed playable trolls from being just Darkspear to now being able to be a dark troll or a sand troll as well.

So it makes sense they want to open up race / class combos as their PC story is more about the individual than the collective. I think they still need to add these options with care. It shouldn't just be done lazily like some of these warlock options.

[BreakerOfWills]

The mag'har seems odd, since mag'har literally means "No fel allowed".

It means "born without and have not consumed fel" to denote that they were neither blood cursed nor drank the blood. Nothing about being a warlock requires either. They'd probably be outcast but that's pretty much the Warlock way anyway

[Triceron]

Again, i disagree, its more about the writers ability, they are ruining the lore, there is tons of shit that could be fixed with small stuff, like by example, making the alliance attack first in BFA, when it makes totally sense for then doing so.

Like i said, ti worked fine before, why suddenly it stop worked? its not because the genre, its because the people working on it

It worked fine because they didn't do anything with the lore at the time.

For example, Forsaken in the Horde makes NO SENSE from a WC3 point of view. The values of Thrall's Horde would not extend to the morally weak Forsaken, who were dubious at best. Forsaken also gained their independence, and lore-wise would not likely serve any new Master, definitely not a Warchief. The lore conflicts with itself at the very start. And it was fine during Vanilla, because nothing really happened to fuck up any lore.

And why are Forsaken playable in the Horde really? Because the designers wanted a Horde location based on EK to balance the Alliance having one in Kalimdor, and they thought the concept of playable undead would be cool but wanted to keep things Red vs Blue. Forsaken get shoehorned into Horde because of Gameplay design.

And how dies lore for Forsaken progress through Wrath, where you think lore still works? They caused the greatest betrayal that anyone could have seen, at the most pivotal moment in Wrathgate. And THRALL is 100 PERCENT responsible for this atrocity for allying with morally weak potential traitors. It's a whole house of cards scenario, the lore falls on itself. This would never have happened in WC3 because WC3 Thrall wouldn't be stupid enough to bring Forsaken into the Horde in the first place. In Wrath, it ends up being Thrall's incompetence leading to trusting ANY Forsaken, regardless if Sylvanas was behind it or not. And to make it all worse, Blizzard doubles down on Forsaken betrayal all up into Shadowlands, where we learn Sylvanas was never to be trusted in the first place. This shit isn't just post-MOP problem, it was a problem from the start. It was a poor foundation that lead to the walls crumbling. We knew Forsaken was untrustworthy from the very start, with MANY hints of their recklessness and amorality since Vanilla. Blight experiments go as far back as Royal Apothecaries studying its use since Vanilla!

None of this would be due to the oversight of Horde leadership. And a weak leadership is exactly what causes the Horde's second greatest problem - Thrall abdicating the position and allowing his (poorly vetted) predecessors to take the Horde down the worst paths ever seen. If this were WC RTS, any weakness in the Horde would have ended in utter destruction, and we would have followed a completely new Horde built from the ashes of the old one thay cut ties with ANY potentially untrustworthy ally. Just like the Horde has reinvented itself multiple times with different allies each time throughout the RTS. But this can't be done because all races are permanent to their faction. So instead, lore just gets more and more fucked.

If the RTS worked like WoW, you'd have Thralls Horde with every unit and hero from WC1&2 Horde playable at the same time. It would be a lore mess. Thrall's shamanistic Orcs, Tauren and Island Trolls suddenly allied with Warlocks and Ogres and Forest Trolls and Goblins and Death Knights. Oh wait, sound familiar? This is exactly what we end up with in WoW.. It's quite a mess, and it's caused many messes within Horde's progressive lore.


All this and I haven't even talked about Night Elves or Blood Elves.

[Soon-TM]

What about an allied race that would fully sell the man'ari as a race instead of some lame customization that would lack flavor because they wont even have the man'ari voice, and will have gift of naaru which dont fit man'ari at all?

Man'ari would have made for a neat Ally AR by the end of Legion instead of lame blueberry elves, who should have been either full fledged High Elves or a 404 error.

The recruiting scenario would have been something similar to the PC beating the crap out of a bunch of Man'ari, who have lost much of their punch now that their leader is in chains. Some of them offer their allegiance to the Alliance in exchange for their lives (they wouldn't be able to respawn too fast with Argus having been beaten down), and someone, preferably an LF Draenei, would accept saying something like "you can join us, but we'll be keeping a very close eye on you, so try to behave yourself".

You could even add some minor reference to Varimathras' fate after betraying Sylvanas for extra campyness, in true WoW fashion

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Because you are wrong? The Lich King was owning everyone when he came, he was able to beat Tirion, and other its just because Darion gave the ashrbinger AFTER he broke free that the Lich King was defeated. Just before that the Lich King is totally in control of the fight, just because Tirion made some mind trick or something to Darion by showing him vision of his father....

I have NO idea how you can say the Lich King was weakened or something its just never said anywhere in wrath.

The DK’s were able to break free because they were at lights hope which was holy ground from all the paladins and priest berried there and that weakened the lich king.

Darion’s dad also shows up because that’s where Darion freed his soul around the time of classic, all Tiron did was get the sword and smack the lich king.

[qwerty123456]

Sorry for what? Do you actually knows why Metzen left Blizzard in the first place? He made a whole radio interview about that you know!!! He left because he was tired of the comunity constantly telling that the lore was bad since wolk even thought he worked more on cata/mop and draenor he was tired of seeing that no matter how much passion he pout in the expansions people still said MoP was bad and had nothing to do with warcraft universe!!!

Metzen is very much like Georgre Lucas at some points, because just like him, he created a universe which was deeply inspired by other stories and myth and when he tried to get more in depth, more invested he was then hated by the comunity, just like the star wars fans hated on the new trilogy of episodes 1,2,3 people hated on Cataclysm, on MoP and on WoD which were the 3 expansions Metzen worked the most on and to which he pout his heart

You even clearly see how Metzen and also Samwise (who is btw the guy who created the pandarens and all the blademaster inspirations) were after MoP when they made WoD they wanted to say to players "Look its back to real warcraft with everything savage!!!" but it was a failure too.

Metzen burned out after WoD and got back injuries and other problemes which made him leave....its players like you who should feel sorry about this.

Do you have proof of this? Because the article below says your a liar.

https://kotaku.com/chris-metzen-on-l...ani-1789047653

Did you know that Overwatch came to be because Metzen and Kaplan were given 6 months to make something out of Titan or be reassigned?

Funny how you try and claim I'm making shit up and should be sued and shit and then you retardedly say stuff like that without even thinking of including a source.

"After the failure of Blizzard’s MMORPG Project Titan, which was cancelled in 2014 following disagreements between developers, Metzen said that morale at Blizzard was low. The team had spent several years on it and the disappointment was crushing, and especially for him. Metzen confided that one of his greatest fears was letting down Blizzard and its fans.

“What if the next game isn’t perfect? What if people hate it? What if, through the course of action, I dishonor the company or dishonor myself through not performing well enough?” Metzen asked. “Looking back now, I see I had kind of fallen into a trap, which is this cycle of performance. . . At some level, i just had this desperate need for validation.” A “vicious loop” of needing validation, performing, exceeding expectations, raising the bar and needing to perform beyond expectations again, he said, fostered new anxieties in him over the last three years.

“You’re never safe. You have to out-do it the next time. It’s kind of this train you can never get off,” Metzen said.

After Titan’s cancellation, Metzen fell in with the Overwatch project. It was, in his words, “one last charge at the wall.” He helped rally morale and push the game through to completion. And it is a god damned excellent game.

But yeah keep making shit up.

[Venziir]

It means "born without and have not consumed fel" to denote that they were neither blood cursed nor drank the blood. Nothing about being a warlock requires either. They'd probably be outcast but that's pretty much the Warlock way anyway

If you want to be pedantic, then it simply just means 'uncorrupted'. It was a term the orcs specifically made, to point out those who had and those who hadn't been infested by fel. You simply cannot be a warlock, without feing infected with fel.

[Soon-TM]

While it doesn't make a lot of sense for e.g. a Tauren or a nelf to dabble in non-nature magic, it might be (lazily) written off as a "welp this particular dude/dudette wants to deal with demonic creatures just because", even if it means diluting racial identity even further.

But in the case of LF goats or Mag'har, dabbling in demonic magic is just retarded.

[Ameonna]

The DK’s were able to break free because they were at lights hope which was holy ground from all the paladins and priest berried there and that weakened the lich king.

Darion’s dad also shows up because that’s where Darion freed his soul around the time of classic, all Tiron did was get the sword and smack the lich king.

And that makes sense when? Like really, lets say that its the Light everytime we need to explain something...no no, that dont make any sense, the fact the lights hope place was scared lands is not making sense to explain why the dk would break free.

Just think of it for 2sec, why would the fact you have paladins burried and all explain why troll dk would break free of the Lich King? I can understand why Darion would get free but not all the dks.

And i mean, its the LICH KING he have complete control of the undeads, no matter the place he is or Light or whatever...and as soon as the dks or forsaken would be in the Northrend he should just use his domination power and done he would resume control on them.

Do you have proof of this? Because the article below says your a liar.

https://kotaku.com/chris-metzen-on-l...ani-1789047653

Did you know that Overwatch came to be because Metzen and Kaplan were given 6 months to make something out of Titan or be reassigned?

Funny how you try and claim I'm making shit up and should be sued and shit and then you retardedly say stuff like that without even thinking of including a source.


But yeah keep making shit up.

He litteraly said it here : https://soundcloud.com/scott-johnson...tzen-interview

- - - Updated - - -

Man'ari would have made for a neat Ally AR by the end of Legion instead of lame blueberry elves, who should have been either full fledged High Elves or a 404 error.

The recruiting scenario would have been something similar to the PC beating the crap out of a bunch of Man'ari, who have lost much of their punch now that their leader is in chains. Some of them offer their allegiance to the Alliance in exchange for their lives (they wouldn't be able to respawn too fast with Argus having been beaten down), and someone, preferably an LF Draenei, would accept saying something like "you can join us, but we'll be keeping a very close eye on you, so try to behave yourself".

You could even add some minor reference to Varimathras' fate after betraying Sylvanas for extra campyness, in true WoW fashion

I think the man'ari would makes much more sense in the Horde with the blood elves and their fel stuff, and it would evolve velen's wife.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And that makes sense when? Like really, lets say that its the Light everytime we need to explain something...no no, that dont make any sense, the fact the lights hope place was scared lands is not making sense to explain why the dk would break free.

Just think of it for 2sec, why would the fact you have paladins burried and all explain why troll dk would break free of the Lich King? I can understand why Darion would get free but not all the dks.

And i mean, its the LICH KING he have complete control of the undeads, no matter the place he is or Light or whatever...

The light counters undeath in all kinds of ways, turning undead to ash making them feel them selfs rotting freeing there souls from undead ect. In the lich kings case it weakened his grip on the undead enough so the strong willed could break free while The weaker ones were still under his Control.

Lights hope is also instantly saturated with the light Mabye more so then any where else on all of Azeroth so it’s not like it’s something you could replicate some where else.

Like this is what happens what happens when all of that light is released in an active way instead of passively weakening undead.

[Soon-TM]

I think the man'ari would makes much more sense in the Horde with the blood elves and their fel stuff, and it would evolve velen's wife.

Given her recent experience with demons, I don't think Sylv would have ever recruited Man'ari, dumb as she may have been. Especially since she had initially given the cold shoulder even to Belf DHs, but who knows lol.

[Ameonna]

The light counters undeath in all kinds of ways, turning undead to ash making them feel them selfs rotting freeing there souls from undead ect. In the lich kings case it weakened his grip on the undead enough so the strong willed could break free while The weaker ones were still under his Control.

Lights hope is also instantly saturated with the light Mabye more so then any where else on all of Azeroth so it’s not like it’s something you could replicate some where else.

Like this is what happens what happens when all of that light is released in an active way instead of passively weakening undead.

To me you cant summon the Light to say that the Lich King who is the litteral God of the Undeads lose control over his death knights, like you can explain it to me, but it dont work, thats all.

It is the lore and i know the lore, but it dont mean it makes sense, because its just some kind of bs explaination just like the Force in star wars to explain things you cant explain with logic you just go "magic" or "its the Light"

Like for example how could Ktz in the same comics you showed be able to raise and take control over Darion when he just releassed the Light power and was still in Light's hope? Shouldnt the Light protect him?!

Then again;, Lich King should resume control over the undeads be it forsaken or dks instantly when they go to Northrend

[Daedius]

I want Gnome Druids, God damn it!

Who wouldn't want to play as a Kitten/Cub/Chick/Sapling!?

[BaumanKing]

Since LF draenei can now be warlocks, I hope this means that Turalyon can now safely touch his wife again and not explode.

[Super Dickmann]

Since LF draenei can now be warlocks, I hope this means that Turalyon can now safely touch his wife again and not explode.

His days of being cucked by a set of floating bandages wind down.