Are Trolls & Elves especially prone to mutation?

[Enrif]

Could say the yaungol are just as prone as well but didnt get as many opportunities.

They evolved into the tauren and also taunka from being exposed to titan facilities

Then you have the magic rapidly evolved types like the Fel totems
And can be elementaly warped like Kurog Grimtoten

You can add highmountain, as they got unique horns for Huln Highmountains involvment with the Wild Gods.

But compared to other races that are not of the troll/elve lineage, tauren have quite a few known variations, that are not a simply straight tree (vrykul-> humans, breakers -> orcs). Perhaps the dwarven lineage comes close? With the basic earthen(rock), the iron dwarves(metal), dark iron dwarves(fire), Frostborn (ice) and the Bronzebeard/Wildhammer.

[Syegfryed]

Boring answer.

Its a boring answer for a pointless question.

It is not about we theorize what could be the meaning of their appearance, is blizzard doing the stuff first and thinking about the lore later, or not thinking about the implications of their change. The netherzin were always demons, and there was a time that was said they were amongst the first original demons, thats why you have their appearance to be demonic

But then they made "lol, they were not, acshaully they are being of death/shadowlands", its akin to "the janitor was pulling the strings all along", but if he did, then he is a stupid dude, since sargeras almost fucked up his plan in Legion, but i guess that was his plan too i guess?

And i think, shadowlands, did actually give a lot in the lore department, just not for the core warcraft lore.

"giving a lot" doesn't mean its giving anything good. they literally start the expansion breaking the helm of domination, showing they are going further away from warcraft as possible.

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The orcs being honorable people instead of monsters was a way more damaging retcon.

You mean in wc3, where that retcon made the game a legend it is today? damaging? lol

[Enrif]

"giving a lot" doesn't mean its giving anything good. they literally start the expansion breaking the helm of domination, showing they are going further away from warcraft as possible.

This is a bad argument. This would be the same as saying "WC3 goes further away from warcraft 1+2, because they bring in night elves, tauren, kill uther, and don't have only orcs vesus humans"

As Garrosh said: Times change.

you can not like it, and this is fair. But don't try do advocate what is and isn't warcraft. As this is decides by those who own and develop the setting, not some random internet people.

[Syegfryed]

On the subject of tauren, to not go much of-topic. The yaungol only evolved into taunka and tauren, just two species. The highmountain are artificially changed by the bless of cenarius (i think it was cenarius), not rly because they were prone to it

This is a bad argument. This would be the same as saying "WC3 goes further away from warcraft 1+2, because they bring in night elves, tauren, kill uther, and don't have only orcs vesus humans"

That one is a bad argument, you are not making a good comparison here. There is a difference in adding new content and expanding new history and doing that by ruining or crapping old established content.

What you describe are just the plot and the world evolving. Pretending everything was the Janitor grand plan, since the start of the franchise and that Sylvanas was with him since long before? that is crap. The breaking of the healm was not meant to be "the times changing" or the game evolving, is meant to be a message saying "the lich king is dead, we have the Janitor who is better, that? that is old stuff, fuck that", there is no respect for it.

you can not like it, and this is fair. But don't try do advocate what is and isn't warcraft. As this is decides by those who own and develop the setting, not some random internet people.

Shadowlands is the expansion that felt less warcraft that it can be, their afterlives are not warcraft afterlives that we used to hear in our quests. They even acknowledge themselves that the shadowlands "were not accessible". This is reflected by the low sub numbers and player who were not satisfied with it.

And, i don't agree that "its then" to decide that, most of the people there didn't create or develop the setting that we know off and became popular. Its like me taking from where lord of the rings left off and creating my own mythos. They create, its up tot he fan to decide if its good or not and if they will accept as it.

[Enrif]

That one is a bad argument, you are not making a good comparison here. There is a difference in adding new content and expanding new history and doing that by ruining or crapping old established content.

What you describe are just the plot and the world evolving. Pretending everything was the Janitor grand plan, since the start of the franchise and that Sylvanas was with him since long before? that is crap. The breaking of the healm was not meant to be "the times changing" or the game evolving, is meant to be a message saying "the lich king is dead, we have the Janitor who is better, that? that is old stuff, fuck that", there is no respect for it.

From a world and cosmos building perspective it wasn't a bad idea. It was just badly executed. If they would have build up the jailer in the story in that sylvanas impalled herself on icecrown, and every time sylvanas appeared reinforcing that idea that there is something more, it would have been good. Worldbuildng =/= Storytelling. In the storytelling depart it was a failure. Not from the view of world building.

Shadowlands is the expansion that felt less warcraft that it can be, their afterlives are not warcraft afterlives that we used to hear in our quests. They even acknowledge themselves that the shadowlands "were not accessible". This is reflected by the low sub numbers and player who were not satisfied with it.

And, i don't agree that "its then" to decide that, most of the people there didn't create or develop the setting that we know off and became popular. Its like me taking from where lord of the rings left off and creating my own mythos. They create, its up tot he fan to decide if its good or not and if they will accept as it.

Shadowlands shouldn't have been a expansion, for the same reasons the emerald dream should not be an expansion. It gives too much focus on this part of the cosmos that is outside the normal experience. If Shadowlands would have been treated like Amirdrassil in DF and the nightmare in Legion, it would have been positive, as a glimpse behind the veil, instead of full on exposure. Again, issue is execution, not the worldbuilding itself.

[Syegfryed]

From a world and cosmos building perspective it wasn't a bad idea. It was just badly executed. If they would have build up the jailer in the story in that sylvanas impalled herself on icecrown, and every time sylvanas appeared reinforcing that idea that there is something more, it would have been good. Worldbuildng =/= Storytelling. In the storytelling depart it was a failure. Not from the view of world building.

But how can they have build that story since then, if they came up with the Janitor by the end of BfA? Thats why i can't be good, the "if" is something that doesn't hold true because it was not possible. Also, Sylvanas entire arc goes against the notion of her working with the Janitor. Thats why it doesn't work

Its like when they retconed chronicles an expansion away, they make things on the fly, the mythos was made up for shadowlands, ignoring that the world already had a idea of afterlife and we already had a general mythois in chronicles.

Shadowlands shouldn't have been a expansion, for the same reasons the emerald dream should not be an expansion. It gives too much focus on this part of the cosmos that is outside the normal experience. If Shadowlands would have been treated like Amirdrassil in DF and the nightmare in Legion, it would have been positive, as a glimpse behind the veil, instead of full on exposure. Again, issue is execution, not the worldbuilding itself.

Shadowlands could have worked if the wirtters/devs were component and if the place FELT like warcraft. Legion had a better afterlife representation with Odin and Helya places than shadowlands. An afterlife about bald vampires and blue humans? thats something we never saw before, where is the "light" afterlife? the ancestors? even the night elf theme one didn't felt like a true loa/nature afterlife.

[Enrif]

But how can they have build that story since then, if they came up with the Janitor by the end of BfA? Thats why i can't be good, the "if" is something that doesn't hold true because it was not possible. Also, Sylvanas entire arc goes against the notion of her working with the Janitor. Thats why it doesn't work

Its like when they retconed chronicles an expansion away, they make things on the fly, the mythos was made up for shadowlands, ignoring that the world already had a idea of afterlife and we already had a general mythois in chronicles.

I would agree with you. But this is again an issue of bad execution, not bad world building. Blizzard should have expanded on the shadowlands since wrath at least. Like, making the connection between the val'kyr, spirit healers and kyrians during wrath and legion more obvious. And especially Legion and BfA could have done a ton of lifting if they wouldn't have writen sylvans so poorly and would have expanded on a view things during these expansions. Helya and the Drust were obvious plants for the shadowlands expansion, but were not used well enough.

Shadowlands could have worked if the wirtters/devs were component and if the place FELT like warcraft. Legion had a better afterlife representation with Odin and Helya places than shadowlands. An afterlife about bald vampires and blue humans? thats something we never saw before, where is the "light" afterlife? the ancestors? even the night elf theme one didn't felt like a true loa/nature afterlife.

So we agree then? It is an execution issue, not a worldbuilding one.

[Syegfryed]

I would agree with you. But this is again an issue of bad execution, not bad world building. Blizzard should have expanded on the shadowlands since wrath at least. Like, making the connection between the val'kyr, spirit healers and kyrians during wrath and legion more obvious. And especially Legion and BfA could have done a ton of lifting if they wouldn't have writen sylvans so poorly and would have expanded on a view things during these expansions. Helya and the Drust were obvious plants for the shadowlands expansion, but were not used well enough.

So we agree then? It is an execution issue, not a worldbuilding one.

Its both a problem of worldbuilding AND execution. If you try to do worldbuiling on the spot, without caring about what came before, that is a problem in itself as well.

You cannot make a connection in the past, if you made something on the spot now. Like i said, how can you make a connection with the Janitor and shadowlands shenanigans in wtlk, if you created the shadowlands NOW? You would need a completely different approach and a different worldbuilding to make it work.

[Alanar]

The darkfallen in the picture is more related to the San'layn, an undead elf but another kind of undead elf, so it warrant a new branch.

Darkfallen is the overral name of undead elves.

San'layn, Dark rangers or any other undead elf all fall under this banner since it became canon at the end of Shadowlands. San'layn is simply the name of that group.

San"layn are darkfallen mages for example.

[Enrif]

Its both a problem of worldbuilding AND execution. If you try to do worldbuiling on the spot, without caring about what came before, that is a problem in itself as well.

You cannot make a connection in the past, if you made something on the spot now. Like i said, how can you make a connection with the Janitor and shadowlands shenanigans in wtlk, if you created the shadowlands NOW? You would need a completely different approach and a different worldbuilding to make it work.

Legions, BfA and DF had a lot of stuff suddenly added and it worked out. And, shadowlands stuff was already hinted at in certain quests in Wrath. The horse quest for DKs, the quests with koltira in dragonblight already dealt a bit with a connection to the shadowlands.

[Syegfryed]

Darkfallen is the overral name of undead elves.

San'layn, Dark rangers or any other undead elf all fall under this banner since it became canon at the end of Shadowlands. San'layn is simply the name of that group.

San"layn are darkfallen mages for example.

What im saying is that there is a difference in normal undead elves and the san'layn, which have the vampiric condition and bat-like characteristics

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Legions, BfA and DF had a lot of stuff suddenly added and it worked out. And, shadowlands stuff was already hinted at in certain quests in Wrath. The horse quest for DKs, the quests with koltira in dragonblight already dealt a bit with a connection to the shadowlands.

It didn't worked out though, if it did was barely, BfA was awful, Legion had a lot of plotholes/bad writing. and DF had some nonsensical additions like drachtyr that didn't make sense to exist.

The realm of shadows/shadowlands was hinted yes, does not mean the expansion <shadowlands> was imagined back then, they literally came up with shadowlands while doing BFA, and thats why you have, essentially a different sylvanas in the war of thorns book and a new one in BFa.

[Alanar]

What im saying is that there is a difference in normal undead elves and the san'layn, which have the vampiric condition and bat-like characteristics

Ye, I see what your saying. Sadly this was never further specified and probably not needed anymore with given info.

With the dark ranger costomization, basically meaning darkfallen costomization. Also works for mages and the like, effectly covering all their ranks, including the san'layn if you play a mage. This is canon now. Their previous characteristic, such as fangs and the like, sadly werent included, nor was it mentioned. That being said, I agree with you that there are differences, but the game doesnt.

[Syegfryed]

Ye, I see what your saying. Sadly this was never further specified and probably not needed anymore with given info.

With the dark ranger costomization, basically meaning darkfallen costomization. Also works for mages and the like, effectly covering all their ranks, including the san'layn if you play a mage. This is canon now. Their previous characteristic, such as fangs and the like, sadly werent included, nor was it mentioned. That being said, I agree with you that there are differences, but the game doesnt.

i hardly believe these characteristics are canon, its more of a way to shut down the request of more elves as allied races, since they would not be able to be paladins and similar.

It can be canon that some of then re-joined the race rankings, but the customization per see is just fluffy

[Alanar]

i hardly believe these characteristics are canon, its more of a way to shut down the request of more elves as allied races, since they would not be able to be paladins and similar.

It can be canon that some of then re-joined the race rankings, but the customization per see is just fluffy

Well it's all ''for your own interpretation'' nowadays and with he dark ranger customization (Darkfallen) being the perfect example of this, I don't see them specify that specifically no. You play a Darkfallen mage, yes according to blizz you now can rp as a San'layn (from wish).

Sure, that costomization is fluff, but that is the only thing really from the outside that matters to us to specify them, but since this is not given, my take is just that it doesn't need to be specified anymore. Hence Darkfallen as a race will simply cover the topic undead elf completely. I mean it saves time.. Now it's just Darkfallen- San'layn -> Dark ranger ->elf Death knight or in other words undead elf= Darkfallen.


https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Darkfallen